Which 22 target pistol to buy?

[DC]

I recently joined a indoor pistol range / club.  They  have some fun shoots as well as league shoots.  While I am not anywhere close to being as good as some of the guys are, I would like to have fun and be at least a little competitive.
To that end, I would love some ideas about buying a target pistol.  I know that Ruger makes some target models as well as
Walther, Smith (I think) and maybe a couple of others.  I would like to keep the $$ under 600.
Thanks for you input in advance

[stubshaft]

If you want to keep it under $600 then you probably wouldn't be looking at S&W (mdl 41 my first choice) or Walther.  Ruger does make fine automatics that shoot very well.

[buffermop]

RUGER

[OLDHandgunner]

Can't go wrong with a Ruger. I used an older Ruger 5 1/2" bull barrel for years in a postal league, w/ Bo-Mar sight & a Clark trigger.

[bobg]

  Check out the Browning. My Buckmark fit my hand better than my Ruger and shot a little better too.

[Ron 1]

i have shot 3 different ruger mark 2s   and all three were good shooters
rw

[Bigeasy]

The S&W #41, and the target grade High Standards are excellent guns, and are out there used in your price range, if you look around some.  If you want to buy new, the Ruger Mk lll target version is a very good performer.  I own all three, and none are bad choices.  You should have enough & left in your budget for a trigger job, if needed, and maybe a red dot sight if allowed in the type of matches you are shooting.

Larry

[Brett]

+1 to what Bigeasy said.  Look for a used S&W 41 or High Standard Supermatic Trophy.   Ruger MKII and III Target models are very good as well and with a few aftermarket trigger parts can shoot right up their with the S&W and High Standards.

[cybin]

I own 2 Rugers and one Buckmark--all 3 are good shooters.  It depends on what you are comfortable with.

cybin

[jcn59]

Sig-Hammerli Trailside?

[DC]

Oh man, I did a really bad thing!  a local pawn / gun shop has a S&W model 41 for $799 w/ 3 clips which looks like new.
Anyway, just for fun I asked to see it and that is when the problem began.  After handling the Ruger Target / Competition, the Browning Target Bulls Eye and the Beretta and testing the triggers on each I now know why the Smith model 41 is touted as one of the best ever made. 
To make a long story short, my budget just got higher and I need to see a few things to make it work but I HAVE to have it!  What a beautiful trigger!  There is not comparison to any of the $350 to $550 pistols.  What a piece of work!  It WILL be mine.  The best rationalization of all is they are worth just about as much used as they sell for new!
Sadly, I am happier about this than when my ex-wife told me she was pregnant.  Having a a model 41 is being blessed!

I am so bad...LOL 

[cwlongshot]

The S&W #41, and the target grade High Standards are excellent guns, and are out there used in your price range, if you look around some.  If you want to buy new, the Ruger Mk lll target version is a very good performer.  I own all three, and none are bad choices.  You should have enough & left in your budget for a trigger job, if needed, and maybe a red dot sight if allowed in the type of matches you are shooting.

Larry

Larry gives you some excellent advice.

I'm assuming your getting involved with the NRA Bullseye shooting? Its a fun and very good sport to hone your shooting skills. I have been shooting "bullseye" for over 25 years now.     I have shot all of the guns mentioned above and quite a few more! (I'm also a pistol instructor and carry a master classification with a pistol.)

My advice mirrors Larry's.
 Really, you don't spend too much now, buy used and spend the extra on a trigger job and lots a ammo. Later, as you improve you can trade up to a better gun. A gun doesn't make the shooter, the shooter makes the gun shoot, believe me! Now, having said that, once you get shooting form muscle memory you will benefit from a ergonomically correct firearm like a Pardini, Benelli, Hammerli or upper end Walther. Now these will drain the bank account!!  They average close to 2K.  These will solidify your targets and bring up your averages.

The S&W is a fine pistol, but overpriced and heavy. Yea, I have owned two of them and it will work well, but for the $$ there are better choices.

Ones I will recommend you steer clear of are the cheap S&W 22's 22A and its ilk. The Beretta Neos. The Walther plastic black and white jobber and The Sig Trail side. no offence to those owning these. they can be great plinkers but bullseye guns they are not.

If I where pressed to recommend one or two it would be the Ruger or the Browning and would lean to the Ruger simply because the after market embraces it with hop up parts.

A red dot is a good thing to be competitive. But IMHO you are far better off shooting and learning your iron sites for a couple seasons. Even tho your average will go up with the dot. You don't build a house form the top down, you need a foundation. That foundation is built learning to use iron sites.

Good luck,
 CW

[DC]

I priced the Ruger Competition which was right at $500 locally plus tax.  The number of gun smiths around this area of Idaho is limited and most don't have much experience if any working on pistols.  They are mostly hunting rifle guys or AR builders.
The Smith, which I can get for $700 + tax seems like a good trade off.  By the time I buy a Ruger for $500 or close to that and have the terrible trigger done somewhere I will be close to the cost of the Model 41. 
There are a couple of NRA bulls eye leagues around here and I have joined a local club that has one.  While it is the end of season I am committed to a ton of practice for the next season which starts next fall and going elsewhere if necessary.  The range is indoors and is open 24/7 to members so finding a time isn't a problem. 
Years ago, I shot a couple of matches with a Smith 8 3/8 K frame 38 special and had a ton of fun. This promises to be a lot of fun and much less expensive in some ways as well. 
Right now I am trying to recover the muscle memory by using a dowel to make my trigger squeeze straight.  A couple of days ago, I took my Mark II standard out and shot way to the left and knew immediately I had some work to do. 
I don't know if there are any instructors around this part of Idaho but I would love to meet one such as yourself that has shot bulls eye a lot. 
Part of the deal at the range includes targets.  To see the targets that some guys are shooting is amazing.  I don't know how they do it.  I will have to also look at glasses that work for this type of shooting...bad eyes at 62, don't cha know ..LOL.

[cwlongshot]

I understand.

Round here, Ruger MKII/III target models are fairly common. The comp target model is less common. I feel the std target model is just fine. They run $250 ish used. Then get a trigger kit form Clark, Volquartsen for $125 more. then a Volquartsen grip for $50 and you have yourself a pistol that has the ability to out shoot 90% of the shooters shooting.

With some patience and common sense most can install this trigger kit themselves.

As for shooting left, are you a RH or LH shooter?

Our winter leagues are almost over as well. Our NRA sectionals are this weekend and season is over in three weeks. but in may our summer leagues begin. Look around, maybe someone is running some in your area. there are a couple here, I shoot a 900 3Gun match that allows all 22RF as well. I used to shoot 3 gun, but for the past couple years I have stayed RF all year.

A air pistol can be a good training tool as well but get a target style, like a single pump Daisy for cheap. Model 717 IIRC. Indoors or in the garage makes shooting practice easy.

The 41 will do fine for you as long as its weight isn't a problem. (it is for some shooters) Is it a long or short HB your looking at? Have you any friends with one that you can shoot a bit first? In the same regard, maybe some friends will allow you some trigger time with there guns helping you decide.

CW

[DC]

It is the shorter barrel, 5.5 inches I think.  It compares fairly well with the Ruger in weight.  It is 3 oz less but is about 1" shorter in barrel length.  There isn't any after market sights that I can find if I want to change them unlike the Ruger but with the trigger and installation I am over $600 on the Ruger and the Smith, as far as my research tells me, will be worth the $700 or more if I decide to sell it down the road. 
Having said that, if a local dealer whom I am talking to can come up with a Ruger Comp model in the $450 range then I might change my mind.  The S&W that I am looking at has a wonderful trigger which breaks at no more than 2 pounds, maybe less. 
I have used correction fluid to create white dot sights with some success and may do so on it as well.  I may have to if my 6 O'Clock hold improves along with my trigger squeeze.  Back in the day, I used to use the dowel or a tube of chap stick to practice a straight squeeze for hours until I had it down.
Bulls eye pistol really tests all your skills!
Dana

[cwlongshot]

Mornin' Dana,
 Your rite, yes it does!!  It's a discipline and not fully grasped by everyone. But its fun and very beneficial to any other shooting you do.

I suggest you really focus on the fundamentals. Remember of site picture, trigger squeeze and breath control. then stance and follow thru are also important. With open sites, focus on the front site allowing the target and rear site to slightly shift out of focus. With a dot, focus on the target. Find your stance with your eyes closed. Approach the bench at a slow walk. Stop with your dominant foot forward. How mush forward is up to your body. I am more square to target than most. Most are about 45 degrees to target. Once in position with your feet, close your eyes and raise your arm and point at the target. (Or rather where you think it is) When you open your eyes and your actually pointing at the target your close. Make small adjustments pivoting your toe or heel slightly right or left on the ball of your foot. Feet should be approx shoulder width apart. Once stance is established, do not change until your finished with the match. I also like to empty your pockets into your box and remove and turn off the cell or beeper before a match. Place your off hand in your pocket, I prefer front, but back pocket or in your back waist band is OK too. Important its supported, not hanging at your side. Now empty your mind as well. Think on something serene, peaceful and relaxing. BLOCK out any earlier disagreement or the idiot on the hi way en-route to the range. Forgo the coffee or donut before shooting. I sometimes stand in the port with my head down and eyes closed for a couple minutes. You have ten minutes to shoot your slow fire course, use as much as you can. this will help set the pace for the following relays. TAKE YOUR TIME!

 If your on a open range, side blinders as well as an off eye patch can be a big help. If in ports, just a off eye patch. tremors can develop just squinting to close the off eye lid.

Practice and consistency is key.

You never told me if your right or left handed. Shots lo and slightly left at say 8 O'clock show a jerking of the trigger for a RIGHT HANDED shooter. Opposite or mirror that for the lefty. I have a chart for you I'll post, once I find the image. 

Good luck with your purchase. As I said the S&W will serve you well.

OH something else, your gonna need at least two mags and six is better. If only using two, either tell the range officer your only using two mags OR face him as you load them. He will not need to ask if everyone's ready if he is doing his job and looks first. Also, put your target out LAST, once your ready to begin the match. Again if he is doing his job properly, he won't start until all targets are out or he will request all targets out. (I have been a R.O. for more then 10 years too.   )



CW

[OLDHandgunner]

Dana,

cwlongshot has given you some excellent advice on Bullseye shooting. It requires alot of practice and discipline.
If I may add something that helped me a lot 30+ years ago when I decided to get into Bullseye & PPC shooting. If you can go online and find an copy of " The Pistol Shooter's Treasury " by Gil Hebard. Mine copy is the 2nd Edition 1973. The book has advice from all the top military & civilian world class pistol shooters of that time. It covers everything from basic pistol shooting, bullseye, PPC, top target guns ( centerfire & rimfire ), ammo test & even reloading target ammo for competition. I've about worn the 128 pages over the years. This is a must read for any real serious pistol shooter.

Good Luck with pistol shooting.
OLDHandgunner

[cwlongshot]

Dana,

cwlongshot has given you some excellent advice on Bullseye shooting. It requires allot of practice and discipline.
If I may add something that helped me a lot 30+ years ago when I decided to get into Bullseye & PPC shooting. If you can go online and find an copy of " The Pistol Shooter's Treasury " by Gil Hebard. Mine copy is the 2ND Edition 1973. The book has advice from all the top military & civilian world class pistol shooters of that time. It covers everything from basic pistol shooting, bullseye, PPC, top target guns ( center fire & rim fire ), ammo test & even reloading target ammo for competition. I've about worn the 128 pages over the years. This is a must read for any real serious pistol shooter.

Good Luck with pistol shooting.
OLD Handgunner

I forgot about that book!!!  I remember a friend lending it to me when I started shooting!!  VERY GOOD INFO!!

 Here is a link to one on EBAY! (There WAS two available... I bought myself one!! )

http://cgi.ebay.com/Pistol-Shooters-Treasury-Book-Gil-Hebard-Guns-SC-PB-/250777246365?pt=US_Nonfiction_Book&hash=item3a637d1a9d

Thanks Hand gunner!

CW

[Keith L]

No it is not.  I just bought the second copy. 

[DC]

Geez Keith, and I had it on my watch list....my trigger squeeze was to late this time!

[Brett]

Sounds like you have your mind made up on the S&W M41.  However, you may want to think about this, especially if you are on a budget.   

You should be able to get your hands on a lightly used Ruger Target model for far less than $500, closer to $300.  As cwlongshot mentioned a Clark or VQ trigger kit will run you another $125 and unless you are totally mechanically inept you should be able to install it yourself (there are plenty of tutorials on the WWW to guide you).  You will probably get two magazines with the gun so ad another $60 for 3 additional magazines for a total of 5.  Now you are off to a good start for under $500 as apposed to $800 for the S&W you are drooling over.

Invest the $300 you saved on ammo and range time and you will come out ahead in the long run.   Just my 2 cents.

[DC]

That would be an option but finding a used Ruger target or competition pistol is like finding a gold nugget in the produce aisle.
In five years I have only seen one in a shop and none in the paper.

I just saw at the same shop a Browing Medalist in it's original presentation case, weights, incredible grips, and the original 22 LR Browining cartridges that came with it.  It is beyond beautiful but out of my league but reasonable at $1,500.
I am satisfied with my Model 41 and have only $450 more to go before it comes home with me.  However if I had the $1,500 to piss away that Browing would be mine in a New York minute.  The presentation box is dated 1968 and it is a Belgian mfg.

[cwlongshot]

That would be an option but finding a used Ruger target or competition pistol is like finding a gold nugget in the produce aisle.
In five years I have only seen one in a shop and none in the paper.

I just saw at the same shop a Browing Medalist in it's original presentation case, weights, incredible grips, and the original 22 LR Browining cartridges that came with it.  It is beyond beautiful but out of my league but reasonable at $1,500.
I am satisfied with my Model 41 and have only $450 more to go before it comes home with me.  However if I had the $1,500 to piss away that Browing would be mine in a New York minute.  The presentation box is dated 1968 and it is a Belgian mfg.

I have one of those!!



$1500 is allot of $$ for this pistol!!! 

Wait till you start looking at the europeans I mentioned in an earlier post!!

Here is my OSP 22short Walther...



Here is my Benelli 90S



I didn't buy any new, but all are pushing 2Gs new...  But I will say, they do shoot well!!





In my last match, last Monday nite I shot a 292.

Here is my 97 slow fire, 98 Timed fire and 97 Rapid fire. In the rapid, you will notice, I too am jerking the trigger, just a bit  :




CW

[mauser98us]

If it were I, I would look for a good Hi-Standard Supermatic or a 10X. Thery are old like me, but so be it.I guess I should move into the new age!

[bobthenailer]

I have been shooting BE since 1975 and have been shooting in the high master class since 1993 . I have been using the HI Standard  victor and trophy model pistols for shooting . I once bought & used a new S&W 41 but liked the HS pistols better. If you want to shoot your best scores ! the HS & SW staited above are the 2 american made factory guns that will do the job .  Browning medalest are good but are collecters now. IMO  all other american made  pistols are entry level pistols AE ruger/browning even if you get there so called target version.

[OLDHandgunner]

CW

Nice guns & great shooting.

OLDHandgunner

[michstew]

Hi. Would a Ruger mark 3 be a bad buy for #350.00? Like new stainless target model. Thank's.  michstew

[cwlongshot]

Hi. Would a Ruger mark 3 be a bad buy for #350.00? Like new stainless target model. Thank's.  michstew

New or used?

I bought a MK III blued tgt 5" bbl for 300 with extra mag and hogue grips.
I added a volquartsen trigger kit and hammer bearing. Factory ruger base and rings and a Leupold 2X scope. The gun will shoot nickles at 25 yards. If I where to use it for bullseye. I would need better grip and lighter mounts and dot scope. But would work well.

CW

[michstew]

Like new with all the accessories and case. But still used.  michstew

[cwlongshot]

Like new with all the accessories and case. But still used.  michstew

Prices are different around the country. $350 seems a bit high for what they cost around here, but its not a atrocious cost.

CW