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Author Topic: 45 CC range report  (Read 893 times)

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Offline tomf52

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45 CC range report
« on: March 17, 2011, 04:28:44 PM »
Took my new 45C Classic Carbine out for it's maiden voyage today. Brought along five rounds each of eight different powders. All loads were mid range for each powder according to the powder manufacturer's tables. Batches 1,2,3,and 4 looked more like shotgun patterns than groups. Some almost a foot in diameter. Then came batch number five. Five shots touching! Amazing the difference in what a gun may like or not. This wasn't my first experience like this. Went through the same thing with my .32 H&R Mag.
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Offline gunther66

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Re: 45 CC range report
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2011, 04:55:19 PM »
Please tell us what the magic powder was! 
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Offline petemi

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Re: 45 CC range report
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2011, 05:12:25 AM »
My Handi .45LC shot factory ammo just fine, and I've reloaded for it and it shot well also.  I can't give you the load data just now cause it is down at the Barn.  Mine will shoot a 50 yard one hole group.  At this point, I think all my Handis shoot better than I do.  Age 70 is gonna be here in a week and a half, so I don't shoot the way I used to.  That part of it is really frustrating.  Ya know, is it me, the rifle, the load, the scope, etc. etc.  Gettin old aint for sissys....my mom's motto, lived to 98.

Pete
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Offline tomf52

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Re: 45 CC range report
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2011, 05:22:50 AM »
gunther66 - 700X. Was back there this morning with same powder but a lighter bullet and it didn't shoot worth a hoot. Even the max load by the book left black sooted cases indicating  low pressures. These are all cast bullets, never put any jacketed through it yet which may be a mistake as the jacketed I have found do a better job of breaking in a barrel. We'll see how it goes.
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Offline garbhead

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Re: 45 CC range report
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2011, 06:00:27 AM »
what was the bullet weight and powder charge with the 700-x?   I'l like to try and duplicate that load in my 45....thanks
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Offline gcrank1

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Re: 45 CC range report
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2011, 07:03:17 AM »
What bullet and diameter?
Sounds like it could be too small.
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Offline tomf52

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Re: 45 CC range report
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2011, 11:30:14 AM »
Gcrank said "What bullet and diameter?
Sounds like it could be too small

Too small for what?

For the powder load follow Hogdon's website. It was amiddle of the range load.
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Offline Gohon

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Re: 45 CC range report
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2011, 11:47:47 AM »
What Gcrank is saying is, the bullet may have been to small in diameter to properly seal the bore.  Just because the 5th batch shot alright may not really mean what you think.  What ever particular powder was used in the 5th batch could have been faster and bumped the bullet up fast enough that there was a faster pressure peak and there was no gas getting past the bullet.  Just the opposite for the first 4 batches.  Bad seal equals bad accuracy. An over sized bullet doesn't have to worry about bumping up.  But, since you seem reluctant to tell anyone the powder, bullet and load, everyone is just guessing at this point.
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Offline tomf52

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Re: 45 CC range report
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2011, 03:07:56 PM »
Gohon - I am only reluctant to state charge quantities with today's legal theater. The load as I stated was 700X and can be found at Hogdon's website and as I stated mid range of their scale. The bullet is from an 80 year old hollow base mold, the manufaturer of which is uncertain, Modern something Mfg, but a 240 gr bullet. Wlp primers and no crimp. All the bullets were  .001" larger than groove diameter.
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: 45 CC range report
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2011, 03:25:48 PM »
You'll find the largest diameter cast bullet you can chamber will give the the best accuracy, the Lyman cast bullet handbook states .001"-.002" bigger than groove depth, so if you can chamber a bigger bullet, give it a shot, whatever will fit in a fire formed case, if a  bullet will drop right in loose, bigger is better.  ;)

Tim
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Offline tomf52

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Re: 45 CC range report
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2011, 02:31:41 AM »
Quick - Found what you said to be especially true in my Marlin MicroGrooves.
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Offline Gohon

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Re: 45 CC range report
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2011, 06:05:32 AM »
Although my 45 Colt BC is not a microgroove barrel, the grooves are very shallow just like a microgroove cut.  All of my casts are sized at .454 which gives a better grab of the bullet as it travels down the bore.  It's just possible that at the .452 diameter you're shooting, there is some skidding going on in your barrel and that was the reason of a larger bullet recommendation.  700-X is an extremely fast powder and may have compensated for the small diameter by immediately bumping up the bullet as it entered the lands, giving it a good bite in the grooves.  This would be especially true at the low speeds and low pressure your shooting with.  Different powders in my gun only change the spread by an inch or two but, I should qualify that by the fact I only shoot Ruger/TC loads even when plinking with the rifle.  Only time I ever drop down to the low speeds/pressure you're shooting is in the 45 ACP and even then I size those to .453 diameter. 

Personally I never worry about posting loads that are in published print but I understand why some might be hesitant about it.  Only time I hold back is when or if I go outside those parameters. 

Just for general information my favorite load for the 45 Colt is the use of Ranch Dogs TLC-454-290-RF which is a 292 grain RF bullet, ahead of 23 grains of H-110 for 1628 fps at ten feet from the muzzle.  The use of H-110 or WW 296 with this bullet is one heck of a thumper for those looking for a hunting load.  In my gun this equates to 1 inch groups all day long at 50 yards and right at 2 to 2.5 inches at 100 yards. 

What it really boils down to in my opinion, when dealing with cast bullets, bullet to bore fit is the number one priority when looking for accuracy and non-leading.  A bullet that is of the size to properly fit the bore doesn't need to depend on obturation which it self is depending on powder and charge.  Everything else comes in second.  Just my opinion............
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Offline gcrank1

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Re: 45 CC range report
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2011, 09:20:07 AM »
True, unless the throat dia. is big enough that even with a, say, .001" oversize to groove dia. bullet experiences gas cutting on the base band. These will invariably throw wild once they exit the muzzle.
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Offline tomf52

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Re: 45 CC range report
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2011, 04:19:22 AM »
Gohon - My bullets were not at ..451. They were  .001" above bore diameter which is .4525. The bullets were  .453 to .4535. Hope this clarifies it.  This fit should work but I may open up the sizing die to .454+.
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Offline Gohon

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Re: 45 CC range report
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2011, 06:12:05 AM »
Sorry Tom...........I meant to say .452 instead of .451 as somewhere I got that number stuck in my head as to the size of your casts, but apparently even the .452 would have been wrong.  Not sure where I locked that in but my mistake. 

Don't know what powders you used in the first 4 loads but my experience with the big 45 is fast powders don't perform well, at least not in my gun.  Apparently your gun is different.  Unique is the fastest powder I found satisfactory for lighter loads and as I mentioned before H110 and 296 seems to be the ticket in my gun.  For some of the lighter slugs I've had good success with 2400.
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: 45 CC range report
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2011, 06:47:46 AM »
Tom, check to see if an unsized bullet will fit in a fired case, if it will, load em up.  ;)

Tim
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Offline tomf52

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Re: 45 CC range report
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2011, 10:17:56 AM »
Quick - By fired case do you mean a fired unsized case?
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Offline tomf52

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Re: 45 CC range report
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2011, 10:24:36 AM »
Gohon - Can't remembeer which batch did what but that day I took along loadings of seven (not eight as I had previously stated) diferent powders. They were Blue Dot, Bullseye, Unique, W231, TrailBoss, 700X, and I think 2400. The 700X was the best with BlueDot and I think 2400 coming in a distant second. This is very early in my attempts to make this thing shoot so I have a long way to go.
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: 45 CC range report
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2011, 11:55:37 AM »
Quote from: tomf52 on March 20, 2011, 10:17:56 AM
Quick - By fired case do you mean a fired unsized case?

Yes.  ;)

Tim
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