Author Topic: Handgonne question! (Read 2568 times)

aapch1 · « **on:** March 19, 2011, 07:25:22 AM »

CAn you load pyrodex into a handgonne? no-where around here sells real black powder, it's all been subbed with pyrodex, I've shot pyrodex out of a matchlock before, but My concern is: is 3f pyrodex, equal to 3f goex? would it fire the same?

Double D · « **Reply #1 on:** March 19, 2011, 07:47:21 AM »

Where do you live and we will tell yo where to get the real stuff.

aapch1 · « **Reply #2 on:** March 19, 2011, 08:50:53 AM »

ada ohio.Cant find any real powder, its not "season"

Artilleryman · « **Reply #3 on:** March 19, 2011, 09:02:16 AM »

Two Goex Distributors that are closest to you. You also might want to go to this Goex website.
http://www.goexpowder.com/distributors.html Hope this helps.

Deer Creek Products
P.O. Box 246
Waldron, IN 46182
765-525-6181, Fax: 765-525-6181

Dodson and Company
Box 277
Rio Grande, OH 45674
740-245-9150, Fax: 740-245-9150

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #4 on:** March 19, 2011, 03:46:25 PM »

Getting the real stuff is best.

Someday I'll work up a design that will acturally work with the phoney black powder.

GGaskill · « **Reply #5 on:** March 19, 2011, 07:28:02 PM »

Since Pyrodex needs higher pressures to burn well, maybe those old necked chambers are what it needs.

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #6 on:** March 20, 2011, 03:47:47 AM »

Quote from: GGaskill on March 19, 2011, 07:28:02 PM

Since Pyrodex needs higher pressures to burn well, maybe those old necked chambers are what it needs.

Now we're thinking through the issues!

I think we're in agreement that the pseudo-blackpowders need something to push to get to the point that they will/can build pressure.

In one of the REFERENCES on hand gonnes (posted in the Reference Sticky years ago) I read that the longer and thinner powder chamber (compared to short larger diamter) produced higher pressures.

My concept here is to build a gonne/cannon/howizer/mortar with a long thin powder chamber that just fits the pellets (or loose powder can be used) and to compare that with another very similar tube with a shorter but larger diameter chamber.

A candidate for this is (as DD calls it) the KISS design. We (and others) designed a two-piece barrel with powder chamber and tube that assembled to be the barrel. Easy enough to make a similar powder chamber (end) and compare using the same length tube and similar projo. Golf balls are good candidates as they are both very uniform and very light.

GGaskill · « **Reply #7 on:** March 20, 2011, 08:12:08 AM »

I guess there are at least a couple of methods that could be used to make one with a restriction between the powder chamber and the projectile bore. You could drill a .69 cal. bore the whole depth and then press in a sleeve to the depth you wanted to set the chamber at and then plug weld that in place. Or you could drill from both ends leaving the restricted area between both larger holes; then press and weld a breech plug in. I'll make some drawings and attach them shortly.

The bottom one is the one with the sleeve and the top one is the one with the breech plug. Of course you would need a vent in the upper one, too.

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #8 on:** March 20, 2011, 08:34:43 AM »

I'm taking the simple route - making a long small diameter powder chamber and comparing it to a larger diameter but shorter one. Then, if needed, I'll consider a more complicated approach.

aapch1 · « **Reply #9 on:** March 20, 2011, 09:15:26 AM »

wait... so why exactly is pyrodex a no-no? I use it in my grandpas arquebus...and in my small bore hackenbuchse....only like 15 grs.in the hackbutt tho... but 60 in the arquebus,and it works. I'm just afraid to use it in my new gonne, because I've never heard of anybody trying.

GGaskill · « **Reply #10 on:** March 20, 2011, 09:29:31 AM »

The problem with Pyrodex is that it requires a lot more pressure to burn efficiently than does black powder. When I first shot my bowling ball mortar, I was using half Pyrodex and half black powder. Ran out of Pyrodex so used all black powder and got twice the range for the same charge weight. The Pyrodex had just been going along for the ride.

In a small bore gun, Pyrodex sees much more resistance from the shot inertia and barrel friction and it gets the pressure up where it will work better. No reason not to try it in your gonne with a shot but it will not work for blanks.

aapch1 · « **Reply #11 on:** March 20, 2011, 09:34:54 AM »

so until I get ahold of some GOEX, I can shoot some patched grape shot, with pyrodex?

GGaskill · « **Reply #12 on:** March 20, 2011, 09:54:42 AM »

I would put a sabot behind any loose shot. It will restrain the gas better.

aapch1 · « **Reply #13 on:** March 20, 2011, 10:31:34 AM »

a sabot, as in? a wad?

GGaskill · « **Reply #14 on:** March 20, 2011, 12:39:41 PM »

I am thinking something harder than a typical wad (I am assuming you are too young to have experienced card and fiber wads in shotgun shells.) Something more like a bore diameter cylinder of wood or something similar. The goal is to present a solid surface to the powder gas instead of a permeable one like a load of shot.

On the other hand, a fiber shotgun wad would be just fine if it were a good fit.

aapch1 · « **Reply #15 on:** March 20, 2011, 01:40:15 PM »

you are a genius! instead of trational wads, use wood! I never thought of that, so i could put a block of wood, and then load grape shot, or whatever, right? with pyrodex?

Rayfan87 · « **Reply #16 on:** March 20, 2011, 01:53:42 PM »

I read something about using a 4" square of aluminum foil. I use a patched ball with a piece of model rocket wadding behind it.

aapch1 · « **Reply #17 on:** March 20, 2011, 01:55:11 PM »

my question about pyrodex tho... could i use foil, with pyrodex?

GGaskill · « **Reply #18 on:** March 20, 2011, 02:05:00 PM »

I can't speak to the foil but you can use Pyrodex. The worst that would happen is you won't get as much boom as black powder.

Double D · « **Reply #19 on:** March 20, 2011, 02:15:50 PM »

Just keep in mind when shooting Pyrodex that it really is a smokeless powder and leaves corrosive residue in your bore

GGaskill · « **Reply #20 on:** March 20, 2011, 02:37:17 PM »

Pyrodex is a complicated mix of many chemicals. The patent shows:

45 parts of potassium nitrate
9 parts of charcoal
6 parts of sulfur
19 parts of potassium perchlorate
11 parts of sodium benzoate
6 parts of dicyanamide
1 to 4 parts of water

Since they don't list any nitrocellulose, I would not call it a smokeless propellant.

Double D · « **Reply #21 on:** March 20, 2011, 02:58:33 PM »

It's classified as a smokeles propellant, all the substitutes are.

aapch1 · « **Reply #22 on:** March 20, 2011, 04:11:14 PM »

ok, well without all the complicated-ness...i'll just have to clean more frequently.

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #23 on:** March 20, 2011, 04:14:31 PM »

It's all corrosive. Clean after firing each time you take it out - using pseudo-black powder or real black powder.

aapch1 · « **Reply #24 on:** March 20, 2011, 04:20:52 PM »

would 60 grains of 3f (pyrodex) work in a .69 cal, Ithink I'm going with the copper pipe idea... just hammerd shut.patched of course. (I'm still VERY new to all this)

rampa room artillery · « **Reply #25 on:** March 20, 2011, 04:40:01 PM »

if you are going to use pyrodex use 30 grains. it is more then you thiink. remember you are not putting this gun on your shoulder. you are holding it. in your hand it is differnt. you will see.

rickb ryan

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #26 on:** March 20, 2011, 04:44:31 PM »

Good advice.
Start rediculously small, work up.

aapch1 · « **Reply #27 on:** March 20, 2011, 04:48:28 PM »

start how small? Thanks for all the advice, EVERYONE
Austin

rampa room artillery · « **Reply #28 on:** March 20, 2011, 04:54:13 PM »

start with powder pyrodex with 30 grains less than a teaspoon of powder

aapch1 · « **Reply #29 on:** March 20, 2011, 04:55:41 PM »

ohh... i see.. and work my way up? do i shoot blanks? thanks
Austin