Author Topic: Handi-Rifle sales....??? (Read 4087 times)

DakotaElkSlayer · « **on:** March 20, 2011, 06:06:35 PM »

Didn't want to hijack another thread so I figured I would start another. What the heck is going on with the Handi-Rifle sales nationwide? Another post was talking about how Dick's is dropping the line, so I am pretty sure the sales are depressed in most of the country. What I would like to hear is your opinion on WHY? Any idea on how Ruger #1s are selling? Encores?
Is it how bolt-action rifles are dropping in price down to near Handi prices? Is it the attitude of shooters today that thinks spraying a bunch of bullets quickly is better than placing that one, perfect shot? Is it the plain-jane/utilitarian look of THOSE pallet stocks? Would love to hear from you Handiaholics...

Jim

zackyholdem · « **Reply #1 on:** March 20, 2011, 06:35:43 PM »

it believe the single factor for the drop in handi sales is the increase in price, about a year and a half ago most handi's with pallet wood stocks would run about $199 new now those same guns are $250 new, i dont mind the basic stocks because there are tons of aftermarket stocks available but for someone unfamiliar the cheap stock could be a turnoff

with entry level bolt guns from remington, savage, mossberg, marlin and stevens on the market for $300 or less its an easy choice for most who are unfamiliar with handi's

plus everyone else in the industry is evolving their products with things like better triggers, bedded stocks and upgraded sights, h&r is doing none of this, one of the main problems with handis are the common fail to fire issues that are usually not associated with bolt guns, they should do some r&d and redesign the transfer bar and spring mechanism to eliminate the problem of weak primer strikes

they are putting no money into the guns to improve them, they are basically putting out the same guns as they did 15 years ago with no improvements and charging twice as much, sounds like a recipe for failure to me

Dinny · « **Reply #2 on:** March 20, 2011, 06:36:27 PM »

I think it has something to do with the prices. Lately they have been priced around the same as bolt-action rifles like the Stevens 200 and the Savage Axis. Even the used ones are going for last year's new prices. Just look at our classifieds for proof...

What I would like to know is why are Handis selling for far more when they're being parted-out. In some cases Handis are fetching over $300 alacarte and used when they sell for $229 complete and brand new. $:-\$

Thanks, Dinny

zackyholdem · « **Reply #3 on:** March 20, 2011, 06:46:08 PM »

the one thing that handis have going for them that could keep them afloat is their offering of straight walled cartridges models at a reasonable price, offerings such as 45-70, .44mag, 45lc, 444 marlin, 500sw, 357mag etc.... are very popular for primitive weapons seasons, cowboy shooting and general shooting / plinking, plus they are one of the few manufacturers to offer firearms for these cartridges are reasonable prices just take a look at the price for a ruger #1 45-70 vs a handi in 45-70, the ruger cost 4x as much

i'm sure that if you told any handiholic they could only keep/have one handi the majority would say 45-70 hands down, i know i would

Dinny · « **Reply #4 on:** March 20, 2011, 07:00:06 PM »

Quote from: zackyholdem on March 20, 2011, 06:35:43 PM

plus everyone else in the industry is evolving their products with things like better triggers, bedded stocks and upgraded sights, h&r is doing none of this

I also agree that this could be hurting sales. Interchangeable barrels would be a step in the right direction though...

Thanks, Dinny

bikerbeans · « **Reply #5 on:** March 21, 2011, 04:20:22 AM »

Quote from: Dinny on March 20, 2011, 06:36:27 PM

What I would like to know is why are Handis selling for far more when they're being parted-out. In some cases Handis are fetching over $300 alacarte and used when they sell for $229 complete and brand new. $:-\$

Thanks, Dinny

Dinny,

Makes you wonder don't it? First thing I think of when I see a new or used Handi is what are the pieces worth? If you need a receiver, it is far cheaper to buy a complete gun locally and then flip the stock set and barrel. You can do this Handi redistribution and save on the receiver and still be kind to GBO members that you sell too.

BB

Land_Owner · « **Reply #6 on:** March 21, 2011, 05:36:44 AM »

Hmmmmmmmmmm......I thought Handi sales were on the rise. I know that I am PERSONALLY keeping both the new and used markets busy.

cjrjck · « **Reply #7 on:** March 21, 2011, 06:11:02 AM »

Quote from: bikerbeans on March 21, 2011, 04:20:22 AM

Quote from: Dinny on March 20, 2011, 06:36:27 PM

What I would like to know is why are Handis selling for far more when they're being parted-out. In some cases Handis are fetching over $300 alacarte and used when they sell for $229 complete and brand new. $:-\$

Thanks, Dinny

Dinny,

Makes you wonder don't it? First thing I think of when I see a new or used Handi is what are the pieces worth? If you need a receiver, it is far cheaper to buy a complete gun locally and then flip the stock set and barrel. You can do this Handi redistribution and save on the receiver and still be kind to GBO members that you sell too.

BB

Doesn't always work out like it seems. Figure a standard caliber parted out will net $110 for the barrel (after taking out $15 - $20 for shipping, insurance and supplies), $100 for the receiver after taking out $7-$10 for shipping, and $40 for a PW stock tops after taking out $15 shipping and insurance. That is $250 total. Cheapest I can get a new Handi here at a shop after tax is $265.

Not sure sales are down but it would not surprise me since the economy is still in a world of hurt, unemployment is still above 9%, and competition from the cheap bolt guns and Rossi single shots make a tough market even tougher.

thejanitor · « **Reply #8 on:** March 21, 2011, 06:16:57 AM »

Local on the shelf USED price, twice now have been 299.00

my in better than their condition Handi trade in was priced at 105.00 No wonder people part them out rather than trade them in. Love them, but won't spend 299.00 used. -thejanitor

carbineman · « **Reply #9 on:** March 21, 2011, 06:54:58 AM »

So true Zacky about the handi being offered in straight wall rimmed calibers. Seems a majority of the posts are about 45-70, 357, 44, 38-55 etc. and quite a few 30-30 posts.

I know the Dicks employees told me the stainless CVA Stalker Elites for 160-180 dollars has hurt the handi sales.

catamount · « **Reply #10 on:** March 21, 2011, 08:19:55 AM »

As far as I know here in Utah you can't buy a handi rifle off the shelf. All the places that used to carry them like Walmart, Calranch, Sportsmans, Kmart etc... don't stock them anymore and haven't for years. I always have to order mine from a local gun dealer. I do see an occasional used one at the pawnshop but there usually pretty hammered. There was a used 223 Varmint at Cabelas for $180 that i saw the other day.

Troyboy · « **Reply #11 on:** March 21, 2011, 12:13:23 PM »

I have been saying for a while now..... they are getting to expensive. If a new handi is 300 and a bolt is 50-100 more it is a bolt hands down. They need to rethink things a bit.

tcencore3006 · « **Reply #12 on:** March 21, 2011, 12:29:29 PM »

I wonder if the CVA Stalkers are influencing Dicks? They are selling them for $179 and that is in stainless.

LaOtto222 · « **Reply #13 on:** March 21, 2011, 02:53:38 PM »

I bought my first Handi for $250 out the door. It was an Ultra varmint 223 so it has a 24" heavy barrel and cinnamon laminated stocks. A pretty gun. I promptly sent it in for two more barrels; 357 Mag and 30-30. A couple of years later I was in the market for a 44 Mag. I wanted a 44 Mag to start with, but they were out so I settled for the 357 at the time. I found a "Special" at Gander Mountain for $250 + tax. It had plastic stocks and fore end and I much prefer the laminated stocks. By the time I bought Laminated stocks for it, it easily went over $300. Even the plain Jane 44 mags went for $299.95 + tax at the time. I sent that frame in to get the new stocks and while it was there, I got a 444 Marlin barrel and a light 22 Hornet. along with dedicated fore ends for each barrel. The 22 Hornet barrel looked like it sat in the back warehouse for a few years, rust on the barrel and a missing screw out of the front sight hole. Back then I complained about high prices and all I got was that I was a whiner. Shipping costs were up manufacturing costs were up, on and on. I pointed out that I could buy bolt guns for less money, easily modify them to shoot 1/2" groups or less. I did not get any sympathy. That 44 Mag was the last Handi I bought. It is not that I do not like single shots, I prefer them. And it is not that I do not like my Handis, they are not for sale. Yes I really do like single shot rifles; I have converted all my varmint bolts to single shots. The only advantage I can see to a Handi, is they can be converted to some unusual cartridges especially the old timey ones. But there is a price to pay for that too. You need to either stub them or get the barrel rebored, both methods make good shooters but the price is not cheap. By the time you buy the gun and have the special work done, you could buy a good bolt gun for less money. Of course it will not be in 44-40 or even a 32-20. But you can buy a Marlin lever in 357 for less money and shoot 38 Specials or 357 Mags in it with about the same or more power, you just do not have that old cartridge, which if you are willing to pay for, more power to ya'. But that does not sell guns to the masses - value for your buck does and I am afraid the Handi rifle has crossed the line - still a good rifle, just not cheap any more.

gcrank1 · « **Reply #14 on:** March 21, 2011, 03:06:30 PM »

20+ years ago a retailer had to make an overall 30% margin to stay in business; I wouldnt be surprised if it isnt 40% now. Do the math, or just feel it in your gut. Now, this doesnt mean that a Rossi at $179 makes him 30%, that gets you in the door.......
I just want to be made to feel like I am as important as the next person when I am there as a potential customer, and that they want to to business with me, not just me do business with them. I think that distinction gets lost by many in retail today.

petemi · « **Reply #15 on:** March 22, 2011, 04:51:36 AM »

I don't think I'd ever get a Rossi if they were 59.95. They're not made here, and we need to keep our jobs at home. I just hope Remington doesn't decide to drop the line.......on the other hand, it would make the ones we own more valuable. I'd buy a Mosin or a Mauser K94 and they are imported, but not taking jobs away in the U.S. They were made long ago, and I'd buy them in addition to my American made guns, not in place of them.

Pete

Spanky · « **Reply #16 on:** March 22, 2011, 05:52:54 AM »

The price of a new Handi is too high plain and simple. There's quite a few bolt guns on the market that shoot very well and are selling for the same price. As far as the used Handi market the prices are just ridiculous and it don't look like it's getting any better... there's always some fool out there who will pay double what it's worth. I remember the 7.62x39 rifles that were listed on here last year for $425... get real, they cost less than $250 brand new.

Of course they are "rare as hens teeth"

Just FYI the Rossi 7.62x39 rifles shoot just as well as the Handi's and I got one new for $179.

Like I've been saying for two years now... we're doing it to ourselves by paying the crazy prices guys are asking. Look back through the classifieds and see how many barrels are being listed for $150 or more.

Like I said though there's always some fool who posts "I'll take it"
It's too bad really and I think it's one more step towards the end.
Some of you guys might want to warm up to the Rossi's... they might just end up being the only game in town sometime soon.

Spanky

parkergunshop · « **Reply #17 on:** March 22, 2011, 07:15:15 AM »

Just looked up the prices the Handi's are going for $313.69, the Savage Axis for $349,

For an extra $35.31 cents you get a much more flexible and more trouble free rifle. Scope mounting eye relief a non issue, trigger can be adjusted, no headspace or extraction problems,

Most everyone can handle an extra 35-36 bucks for a rifle.

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #18 on:** March 22, 2011, 07:36:02 AM »

The beauty of the Handi rifles is the ability to change barrels. They could raise prices a little if they put a little more into better tolerances for easier barrel change by the end customer.

tjf76 · « **Reply #19 on:** March 22, 2011, 07:40:10 AM »

Quote from: parkergunshop on March 22, 2011, 07:15:15 AM

Just looked up the prices the Handi's are going for $313.69, the Savage Axis for $349,

For an extra $35.31 cents you get a much more flexible and more trouble free rifle. Scope mounting eye relief a non issue, trigger can be adjusted, no headspace or extraction problems,

Most everyone can handle an extra 35-36 bucks for a rifle.

You can buy a Stevens 200 from Buds for $320 Shipped

gomerdog · « **Reply #20 on:** March 22, 2011, 07:45:19 AM »

Quote from: Spanky on March 22, 2011, 05:52:54 AM

The price of a new Handi is too high plain and simple. There's quite a few bolt guns on the market that shoot very well and are selling for the same price. As far as the used Handi market the prices are just ridiculous and it don't look like it's getting any better... there's always some fool out there who will pay double what it's worth. I remember the 7.62x39 rifles that were listed on here last year for $425... get real, they cost less than $250 brand new. Of course they are "rare as hens teeth" Just FYI the Rossi 7.62x39 rifles shoot just as well as the Handi's and I got one new for $179.
Like I've been saying for two years now... we're doing it to ourselves by paying the crazy prices guys are asking. Look back through the classifieds and see how many barrels are being listed for $150 or more. Like I said though there's always some fool who posts "I'll take it"
It's too bad really and I think it's one more step towards the end.
Some of you guys might want to warm up to the Rossi's... they might just end up being the only game in town sometime soon.

Spanky

CVA Scouts also directly compete with Handi-Rifles and have been receiving good reviews. Not made in the US, they still appeal to those on a strict budget. I don't know how much their sales will help our economy compared to Handi sales, but not much I suspect. Still, it's hard to spend more for a Handi and get what some consider an inferior US-made product.

For my part, I'm all about second chances and will buy Handi's or other American made firearms. I have enough guilt as it is.

Jimbo47 · « **Reply #21 on:** March 22, 2011, 07:50:59 AM »

Quote from: Dixie Dude on March 22, 2011, 07:36:02 AM

The beauty of the Handi rifles is the ability to change barrels. They could raise prices a little if they put a little more into better tolerances for easier barrel change by the end customer.

I think the beauty of the ability to change barrels begins to wear thin on the the minds of consumers when you can buy a nice bolt action for near the same price.

Nowdays beauty is measured in the pocketbook and based on how much you get for your dollar!

zackyholdem · « **Reply #22 on:** March 22, 2011, 08:44:04 AM »

i was in the market for a .308 and my first inclination was to look for a handi, i wanted camo synth stocks and a std barrel, after a month of searching around the best i could find was $295 out the door, which was high in my opinion. i walked into a cabelas and they had a brand new weatherby vanguard .308 with black synth stocks for $375, needless to say it walked home with me. The gun has a 1.5moa guarantee, a 24" std barrel and a trigger that pulls a crisp 3.1 lbs.

In love handis but with the weatherby i will not have to deal with weak hammer springs, extra high scope rings, ftf's, taking it apart for a trigger job, honing an ejector or extractor, sanding the forend, floating the barrel with an o ring, bedding scope rails and forends and etc........

i love handis and their tinkering and interchangeability but for serious shooting right off the shelf i will take a bolt gun everyday.

gcrank1 · « **Reply #23 on:** March 22, 2011, 12:06:05 PM »

Pretty hard to beat some of these mil-surps for utility, strength and price; just hard to scope 'em right, though the 'scout' set-up on the replaced rear sight seems pretty good.

Jimbo47 · « **Reply #24 on:** March 22, 2011, 02:12:53 PM »

H & R, Remington or whoever needs to figure a way to stay in the race because they are soon going to find they are looking at the backs of the competition.

I love my Handi's but that love isn't going to save them in the not too distant future, and from my observations I get the feeling they already are seeing the writing on the wall since you see very little movement from them as of late.

New products, quality upgrades, or bend over backwards customer service, things you can do maybe with the exception of new products, that are pretty much in place and won't cost a bundle to implement.

With a tough economy it would seem that Handi's would have the upper hand, but it seems they don't want to capitalize on it.

But Hey, what do I know?

gendoc · « **Reply #25 on:** March 22, 2011, 02:49:16 PM »

hey yall... bolt guns ara nice, i have very many of all different flavors. and they shoot purdy dang gud too. but the satisfaction of make'n them shoot is not there, that were tha handi's come in.
hours and days compared to minutes and hours... i like tinker'n and load develop'n

trouble-shoot'n and jus plain goin all out ta get these handi's right !!! thats tha off-season fun

i hava large choice of what to grab....but i've been around a long time wif many other kinds.
and i know what they take to bring home tha meat... but these handis make ya work fer it

kinda like a sportsman shud.....

as always my close'n comment........................
you shoot what you want, and i'll do tha same !!!!!!!!

ain't nut'n better thana guy say'n... you shot that wif... THAT !!!

Alias DW · « **Reply #26 on:** March 22, 2011, 03:10:12 PM »

Remington is going to look out for their best intrest,not ours. When you get really big your main intrest is the bottom line.

Deerhunter#1 · « **Reply #27 on:** March 22, 2011, 03:43:45 PM »

Def the price and the quality. Guns leaving the factory with problems missing parts and poor cs have also not helped. elite stalker at dicks can be had for 159 as I got a 223 and 308 stainless and the are shooters and are tight. The fact of having to send the receiver in for barrels is to expensive when for the price of a barrel i can buy the stalker gun and not wait 5 weeks to get it back.

bjarrell · « **Reply #28 on:** March 23, 2011, 05:44:23 AM »

CVA is also very aggressive in their marketing:

http://www.cva.com/rifles-scout.php#tab-comparison

They also compare the apex with the encore.

petemi · « **Reply #29 on:** March 23, 2011, 06:14:54 AM »

I don't know if CVA has improved quality, but years ago I had their .32 caliber ML. It was a piece of junk. I was ashamed to sell it. I gave it away and got a T/C Cherokee.

A totally off topic note: I believe the U.S government should cancel all previous trade agreements; put a huge tarriff on imported goods and force American manufacturing to come home and restore jobs and the economy. Just my opinion.

Pete