Casting with Lee moulds

[AtlLaw]

I'll be the first to admit I am a novice caster.  Heck, up until a short time ago I had only cast round balls for my BP firearms.  For those I used Lee moulds, bought when I couldn't afford anything else, but I always had trouble getting the moulds to "fill out."

Fast forward a couple/few decades.  After getting back into handgun shooting and experimenting with bullets sent to me by GBO member DCrockett, I bought a couple of RCBS moulds from the GBO Classifieds.  From the start they cast perfectly formed, shiny bullets out of my home smelted WW's.

Now, I've always been one to want to try something new if it could be done cheaply enough.  A while back I bought a Lee mould for my ill fated "Popcorn" 45/70 load idea; abandoned with the purchase of a 45 Colt Classic Carbine.  I used that mould for the first time last night.

More recently I bought a Lee 440 gr. FNGC mould for my new 500 S&W Handi, the price of 500 bullets being what they are.

At this point read my previous thread on keeping your mind on business.   

Anyway, after last night's casting session I find I am still having a terrible time getting a Lee mould to throw a decent bullet!  Most drop from the mould wrinkled, lube groves not filled out and frosty.

I know those aluminum blocks can be difficult, but I'm finding them darn near impossible!  Lee says the aluminum transfers heat faster then steel so the melt must be hotter.  I'm still experimenting with melt temperatures and hotter or cooler blocks, but this is getting to be a pain!  Anyone have any practical suggestions for casting with Lee moulds?  Besides buying another brand of mould that is...  I'll probably get one for the 500 from Veral after some cast bullet shooting with this rifle, but for now...   

[Czech_too]

I'm a relative newbie at casting myself.  With that being said what I do with the mould itself is hold the bottom in the melt say a 1/16 or 1/8" for maybe a count of 10, or until the melt doesn't stick to the mould.  This brings the mould up to temp and it's good to go.  No wrinkles and good fillout.  I don't use any kind of a mould release but I do lube the alignment pins with a heavy oil, applied with a Qtip.
 
Something I read elsewhere is to take a carpenters pencil and rub the lead not only on the top of the mould around the sprue but also the underside of the sprue plate and even the top.  The graphite seems to prevent lead smears when cutting the sprue and the sprue doesn't seem to stick to the sprue plate.

I've got about 8 Lee moulds now, including RB, with at least an equal number of Lymans.  A couple of them took a few sessions before they began to 'work' right, especially that 22 Bator.   

[D Crockett]

 Is the mould new and did you clean it good. I use break cleaner to clean my moulds. I also add about 2% tin to my lead. Get a role of solder from the hard ware store add about 1/4 of it to your lead. Another thing I did with lee moulds is dip the corner in the melted lead for a minute or two to get the mould up to temp. And the last thing I do with lee moulds is throw them in the trash can after I get tired of them messing up and not working right  D Crockett

[gcrank1]

Hey Richard, if it was easy............
Take any new mould, and any used one that isnt throwing good bullets, and clean the cavities out with laquer thinner, acetone, brake-clean, etc., then wash them about 10min with a good dishwashing mix and your least favorite toothbrush. Scrub the cavity endlessly.
Dry well (you may have heard about how water and lead dont mix).
Do mix up to a max of 5% tin, though even 2-2.5% tin will probably make all your bullets cast better and conserve the tin supply.
Peheat a bit and start casting, dropping on an old towel and inspect as you go. They should start looking decent in a dozen or so.
I have never had good luck with the contacting the bottom spout method; I have to get a good drop into the sprue plate and let it puddle 'just so', YMMV.
Ive heard good things about some 'casting additive', forget the name, its supposed to be magic; maybe someday I'll try some.
BTW, I use basically soft lead and smelted W-Wts for my 'faster' stuff; nothing exotic. Crank the pot temp up and dont worry about them looking frosty.

[billy_56081]

After cleaning I always smoke mine with a couple of matches, I also preheat them as advised above.

[mechanic]

Gotta' run the Lee's HOT.  Frosty bullets don't hurt nothin'.  I've got some RCBS, some LEE and some LYMAN.  All are different to some extent.  The aluminum heats fast, but also cools fast.  Work it quickly, or if using more than one mold, leave the unused ones on the lead to stay hot.  I cast with a single burner outside, and about 30 -50 lbs. of lead at one time, and I usually run three molds.  I only cast normally about twice a year, and I try to cast enough to last so I make a day of it.

Ben

[Steelbanger]

Hello Richard,

Proper mould prep is the most important key when using Lee moulds. As has been stated, clean the cavities thoroughly before using. I usually boil mine for about 10 minutes using dish washing liquid added to the boiling water. Obviously you need not have the water to a depth that would soak the handles. Scrubbing with an old toothbrush and soapy water works too. One area I disagree with Lee's instructions is the lubing of the mould alignment pins. Lee advises to use just a touch of bullet lube to the pins and to the grooves the pins mate with. Whenever I tried that the lube would migrate to the cavities resulting in poorly formed bullets. These days I use a product called Bull Plate Lube for treating alignment pins, also for lubing the sprue plate and the mould top which prevents lead smear build-up. Bull Plate is made and sold by a fellow from Alaska and is used by quite a few casters.

Years back when I used a 270 Ren for silhouette my bullet was a Lee, cast from a mould that I had milled to remove the gas check portion of the cavity. It was used to cast well over 15,000 bullets before I sold it and I bet it's still going strong.

I've been casting for a bit over 40 years, using the same equipment I started with, a homemade propane burner cobbled together by a friend. In that time I've used about every brand of mould available but these days I find myself using the Lee 6 cavities most often. Matter of fact, today casting is on my schedule and I'll be making some Lee .357 FN and also using an RCBS 2 cavity 250 gr. bullet for the 44 mag. Good luck with your Lee's.

[hornady]

After reading your other post, get ride of the drop out spray, Re clean the mold. I don’t use aluminum molds. But with all my molds I use a Q-tip and put a little Kroil in the cavity. First couple bullets out of the mold are rejects, but the rest are good.
As with the BP bullets you are casting a large bullet. Get the heat up on your alloy, and it sounds like you may be pouring too slowly for the larger bullets.
Smoking the mold works if you don’t want to try the Kroil.
But as said, frosted bullets don’t hurt a thing. Get the mold to working, and then you can work on your rhythm to making the shinny bullets.

[AtlLaw]

WOW!  What great responses!  I cast some bullets last night, taking my time and carefully noting each element of the operation:  melt temp, rate of casting, mould temp, fluxing, melt level, stuff like that.  Now y'all have given me more things to try!  No problem, I need to cast some RB's!   

Something I read elsewhere is to take a carpenters pencil and rub the lead not only on the top of the mould around the sprue but also the underside of the sprue plate and even the top.  The graphite seems to prevent lead smears when cutting the sprue and the sprue doesn't seem to stick to the sprue plate.

Now I thought this was a neat trick, then I started thinking.  Do y'all wipe the sprue plate down with lube to accomplish the same thing?

Is the mould new and did you clean it good. I use break cleaner to clean my moulds.

Ah Forest my mentor!     Seems like everyone mentioned cleaning the new moulds.  I scrubbed each down with soap and water, but after reading here I'm going back to square one and reclean them as so many of you suggested!

I also add about 2% tin to my lead. Get a role of solder from the hard ware store add about 1/4 of it to your lead.

I'm using straight WW's.  I was thinking of boosting the tin content and see what effect that had on the WW melt.  What do y'all think would be the right mix?  Say 1/4 lb. of 50/50 solder to 10lbs. WW's?   

Ive heard good things about some 'casting additive', forget the name, its supposed to be magic; maybe someday I'll try some.

Hey Blake!  Okay, we got mould cleaning and alloy in the works, but who sells this additive?  I'd be curious to see what it contains!   

After cleaning I always smoke mine with a couple of matches,

I never tried matches, but I bought that "drop out" because of the problem I had getting the RB's to let go of the moulds.  Last night I didn't use it and the bullets fell from the mould just as well as the 45's I cast the night before.  Actually, matches will probably be much easier then the spray.

Gotta' run the Lee's HOT.

Hey Ben!  That became obvious last night when I paid more attention!  I kept the melt temp. as constant as possible, but even after preheating the mould as others have suggested, I got wrinkled bullets at first.  I could see them improve with each pair cast until they were wrinkle free.  But I had to cast fast!   

These days I use a product called Bull Plate Lube for treating alignment pins, also for lubing the sprue plate and the mould top which prevents lead smear build-up. Bull Plate is made and sold by a fellow from Alaska and is used by quite a few casters.

I saw a reference to that stuff on the cast boolets forum Frank.  It seems really popular over there.  So you do lube the sprue plate and also the top of your mould?

BTW, you still shooting them itti bitti 38-55 groups with your cast bullets?   

with all my molds I use a Q-tip and put a little Kroil in the cavity. First couple bullets out of the mold are rejects, but the rest are good.

I like that idea!  I love Kroil!  heck, I've thought about putting it on my salad!   

as said, frosted bullets don't hurt a thing. Get the mold to working, and then you can work on your rhythm to making the shinny bullets.

I know,    but I shinny stuff!     I'd always heard that the frosted bullets were because of to high a melt temperature.  Last night I noticed that the appearance of the bullets I cast didn't change their appearance from the first to the last.  They actually had a rough texture which could be shined off with a rag.  (No, I'm not going to start polishing my bullets!)   

I kept the melt around 700 degrees.  That doesn't seem to hot to me, but what do I know.  I started wondering if maybe I melted a zink weight when I was smelting the last batch of WW's.   

BTW again!  I weighed and measured the bullets I kept and they all weighed between 440 and 442 gr.  Diameters were all between .501 and .503 with the majority right at .502.  Do those diviations sound about right to everyone?  I'm happy with them!

[gcrank1]

Someone correct me if Im wrong, but at that smelt temp I dont think zinc will melt, so you can zip it off the top with no worries.
I dont have a lead thermometer, just crank my old Lee bottom pour pot up to full hot. Bigger bullets need more temp for me to get good crisp base band fill out. You might try 'building' a firebrick heat enclosure for around your melt pot to heat maintain the heat sink effect, especially if it is a little chilly or drafty where you cast. The absolutely best casting day I ever had was the hottest day of the summer one year; I suspect it was less temp swings in the melt. I also 'top up' the pot fairly regularly so I dont have to wait for a low pot fill to come way back up to temp.
IIRC the 'frosty' is from the antimony content.
If the bullets are casting good and coming out of the mould mostly decently dont smoke the cavities.
Above all, keep 'lube' (other than graphite, etc.) off the blocks; it will migrate into the cavities and contaminate them all over again.

[hornady]

Kroil may nuts up the first few bullets, but it’s penetrating oil and absorbs into the mold blocks, now I did say I use steel molds, I am not sure about Kroil and aluminum blocks. And Bull plate is great stuff. I do know guys that use bull plate on aluminum molds with good results.
It will stop any sticking of the blocks, and end galling under the sprue plate, The Bull plate you do want to keep out of the mold cavity.
 The guy that makes Bull plate lube is in Alaska. And he has a drive to the post office. Last I heard he was only shipping orders once a week.
If someone else on here doesn’t give you his address I can look it up for you. My last order to him took about 3 weeks, but with both the Kroil or bull plate use very sparingly,
You only need a drop on a Q-tip.
The spray on drop out stuff has a habit of building up on the blocks and clogs the mold vents; this will trap air and another reason for bullets not filling out.

[Old Fart]

If I'm remebering correctly lead melts around 500-550.

[hornady]

Zinc melts at just under 800 degrees and pure lead at a little over 600 degrees. You were real close; I melt all my WW in a Dutch oven. And the temp never gets much more than 700 degrees. So any Zinc WW float to the top and I skim them off the top. I have been seeing a lot of Steel WW .

[gcrank1]

Richard, that 1/4# of 50/50 solder to 10# W-Wt sounds about right. You want to keep your melt consistent and repeatable. If you take the 1# roll of 50/50 and run it out, fold in half and use a side cutter to snip it, then fold & cut each piece 2 more times you will have 8 pieces of 50/50, or each at 1oz. of tin to work with.
Maybe start with 1/2 pot full of melted W-Wts, flux once and add & stir in 2 'sticks'. From there on, if you add 2.5# or so of W-Wt ingots and 1 'stick' of tin for each top up you should be able to keep track of the alloy. You might want to start making ingots of the batch at session end, label and keep segregated, and do this for a while until you have a documented, 'sweetened' supply on hand.
Double check my math on this to make sure I havent had a brain flutter  .

[AtlLaw]

Thanks Blake!  That's exactly what I needed, a measureable formula as a starting point!  Now I can take that and run with it!     I'll let you know how it turns out.

[ratdog]

 i use nothing but lee molds heat up fast cast great after about 7 casts wheel weights. lube sprue with a  touch of adlox lee bullet don't get any in mold cavite.nice bullets keep lead good and hot raze heat if the bullets have  imperfections and let mold kool a little once in a while you will eventually get it right.i have never cleaned a mold but i check  to see if clean but i do smoke them first.do 44's  45's 4570 38's 9mm's its not rocket science just a little practice. i size them  put them in a sip lock bag with adlox slop them around let dry a litttle while  on a plastic bag or wax paper good to go. good luck.i  was looking around my garage  and found abox of 500 hundred 45 bullets i bought years ago four 17$ i was looking at gabelas same thing 75 dollors money isn't worth much any more why save it.sucks big time
 

[jlchucker]

After cleaning I always smoke mine with a couple of matches, I also preheat them as advised above.

Smoke any new mold with matches, but don't use a candle for this.  Wax for some reason tends to send up some kind of residue with the smoke you'll get, and you'll have wrinkled bullets for quite a while.  New Lee molds may take 50 or so casts to break in.  I use them, but the best molds that I've used have been RCBS, and older Lymans.  There are other good ones on the market but I've not tried them.

[jlchucker]

Kroil may nuts up the first few bullets, but it’s penetrating oil and absorbs into the mold blocks, now I did say I use steel molds, I am not sure about Kroil and aluminum blocks. And Bull plate is great stuff. I do know guys that use bull plate on aluminum molds with good results.
It will stop any sticking of the blocks, and end galling under the sprue plate, The Bull plate you do want to keep out of the mold cavity.
 The guy that makes Bull plate lube is in Alaska. And he has a drive to the post office. Last I heard he was only shipping orders once a week.
If someone else on here doesn’t give you his address I can look it up for you. My last order to him took about 3 weeks, but with both the Kroil or bull plate use very sparingly,
You only need a drop on a Q-tip.
The spray on drop out stuff has a habit of building up on the blocks and clogs the mold vents; this will trap air and another reason for bullets not filling out.

I tried the Kroil thing in a new Lee group buy mold last summer.  For about 100 boolits I had wrinkles.  After that, perfection. I wholly agree with you about using it very sparingly on a Q-tip.  Wipe the cavities with a dry Q tip as a second pass, too.  Kroil works great in steel molds but again--you have to use it sparingly, and then give it a second wipe with a dry Q tip.  I need to order some of that Bull Plate--I read nothing but good things about it, and having some will be easier on the moving parts than what I've always done, that is using a little bit of alox as a lube.

[hornady]

Anyone that may be looking for the Web address of Bull plate lube it is.
bullshop@wildak.net

[AtlLaw]

After cogitating on all that has been said here I really cleaned my old Lee 490 RB mould and gave casting another shot!   

I carefully lubricated the mould and didn't use any release.  I also didn't smoke the mould but would have if the balls had failed to drop out.

I melted some pure lead I had in bars I had cast a long time ago and fluxed the melt trying to make it as "pure" as possible.

By the end of the session I was dropping nice shiny balls with nary an imperfection!   

So what'd I learn.

Well:

I started casting with the melt at 750 degrees but for some reason the temp dropped as I cast.     But that didn't seem to make any difference between 650 and 750 degrees as long as the mould was hot.

Even though I preheated the mould well before starting, the first time I had to cast about 30 or more balls before they started dropping out without wrinkles.  After reloading the pot and starting over I only had to cast about 10 before I started getting keepers.  Was the mould "breaking in?"   

It seemed to me I could tell when the mould was in the correct temperature range by the length of time it took the sprue to solidify.

I can't wait to try the .501 FPGC mould and WW's again!     But I got to wait for a dry day so I can take the furnice outside to flux the melt.     For some reason Kathie doesn't like the smell of the wax flux DCrockett sent me!     

[jlchucker]

Atlaw, you ask what you learned?  You learned about casting with a Lee mold. 20 or 30 wrinkled ones at first is my experience too.  Once you get past the wrinkled point you pretty much have clear sailing.  If the bullets start coming up frosty looking they're still good--but your mold is getting hot.  No harm done.  With aluminum molds they heat up faster, but if you take a break for a few minutes and then come back, you'll start getting a few wrinkled ones again.  I don't cast round balls any more, but have used Lee molds for rifle and pistol bullets and if you get a good mold from the start, they'll work pretty good for you.  Leave a big sprue puddle on top with each pour--that helps to keep the bullet you're casting from having internal voids that you won't be able to see.  Sprues, and wrinkled or not filled out bullets just go back into the pot.  Have fun.

[D Crockett]

Richard something I just rembered I did when I used lee moulds I gor a piece of aul about 8x8x1 to use as a heat sink that will help in keeping the mould temp down so you won't have frosted bullets D Crockett

[AtlLaw]

Once you get past the wrinkled point you pretty much have clear sailing.

That's exactly what happened!   

if you take a break for a few minutes and then come back, you'll start getting a few wrinkled ones again.

That to is exactly what happened!     It's all clear to me now!     Thanks to everyone here!   

when I used lee moulds I gor a piece of aul about 8x8x1 to use as a heat sink that will help in keeping the mould temp down so you won't have frosted bullets D Crockett

I was going to wait until I retried to cast the FNGC's with WW's to address this Forest.  Actually I'm not sure the what I called "frosty" bullets were caused by heat.     I'm not even sure they were what you would call "frosty!"  But they darn sure weren't polished silver shiny like the RB's I cast.  I've got a couple a 'speriments I want to run this weekend that may give me the answer to this question.   

Stay tuned sports fans!     I know y'all are on the edge of your seats in anticipation!      

[huntducks]

I can't understand why many of you have so much trouble casting, I went out to my shop took out a brand new lee 356-124gr mold sprayed it with brake cleaner took my propane torch heated it for 15 sec and casted a few bullets this is what came out straight WW right out of a lee pot set on 7.

[gcrank1]

How full was the pot, what alloy and how long did it preheat in what ambient temp. to get heat saturation of the alloy before the first cast?
Just curious since those bullets look so good.......

[huntducks]

I have a lee 10lb bottom pour they were straight wheel weights nothing added outside temp was about 70 I always fill my pot about 2" from top before I shut it off that way when I start it up it's ready to go i'm not going to say I don't get some ugly bullets but it usully because I did not get the pot hot enought or the mold or both don't get in a hurry.

I have been casting bullets since the mid 60's I don't use anything to measure the temp just leave the pot on 7 and plug it in wait maybe 20-30min I just look at the material in the pot when it looks right I stir it a little with a wood stick or a peice of 1/2" soft copper flattened at the end, I pre heat my mold with a propane torch for a lee mold maybe 20 seconds moving the flame around for say a lyman RCBS or H&G iron mold maybe 30sec I even heat a inch or so of the handle and then fill the mold I don't worry if some lead squirts out the top it all cuts off and remelts.

I think to many guys over think this heck when I started my dad was a plumber and I used his lead pot and a laddle with a SC Ideal mold 150grWC and pure lead before I new better that you needed a harder bullet an older guy at the range gave me a box of lino and said add a hand full of these.

If I get a little wrinkle or a dent from dropping I still shoot them cans rocks and paper don't know the diff.

Have fun and don't over think it and remember it not rocket science.

[AtlLaw]

I have a lee 10lb bottom pour they were straight wheel weights nothing added

That's my setup also!

Have fun and don't over think it and remember it not rocket science.

Well, I always have fun,     but it's my nature to overthink things!     <I always wanted to be a rocket scientist...> 

I spent about an hour cleaning that 440 gr. fpgc mould last night.     The reason being was that I noticed the bullet cavity was covered with real tiny bits of metal!     More in some spots then others, but pretty much coating the cavities.

Scraping the interior with toothpicks eventually got them out but I'm convinced they were the cause of what I have called the dull, frosty appearance and the failure to fill out and cast sharp edges.  I even found the bit that caused the dimple in the nose that I had noticed on the bullets I cast.

Has anybody run into this before?

[Anduril]

Have fun and don't over think it and remember it's not rocket science.

nope, it's Boolit Science 
..

[offhand35]

I thought I had seen the mention of using KROIL  on a recalcitrant mold on a different site, and had posted this there, THEN I found the actual mention here, so I really want to give HORNADY  credit for saving my day.
Just to mention, I also have a new 452-255-RNFP  LEE mold that I gave up on during a different casting session. I am going to try burning KROIL off in it after thorough cleaning as well.

"I KNOW that I had read somewhere on this fourm that someone had a mold that just was not casting good bullets, no matter what and used Kroil on it to make it work.  Well I had that situation with an old  Lyman 257042 single cavity mold for .257 FPGC bullets  that had been stored in motor oil.  I had cleaned it with ether [outdoors!], and thought I had it all dried out, but after approx.   80-100 attempts,  I was still getting wrinkles!!! I even smoked the mold with a match.....no help.

Then I recalled someone said something about applying a drop of Kroil on the mold, and it started behaving after that had smoked off. Well...what did I have to lose?
I put a drop in the cavity of the hot mold, opened and closed it a couple times to spread it around, and put the mold back in the casting sequence with the other molds I was using.  With the single cavity, it wasn't costing me much extra time even if the bullets still didn't come out right. So I kept at it, and approx 50 wrinkled casts later, EVERY bullet after that   came out perfect!!!!

So I extended my session another hour to get a good number of these made up to play with!

THANKS! [Whoever that was!]"


 

[AtlLaw]

That's great Offhand!  This has been a helpfull thread for me also.   

This weekend I tried again with the Lee 440 gr. mould for my 500 S&W.  I had cleaned out all the bits of lead that clung to the inside of the mould and started casting with a clean melt of WW's.  Inside of 10 pours the mould was again beginning to get covered with the "bumps" of lead sticking to the inside.   

I cleaned the mould once more then sprayed the cavity with Foster's Drop Out to see if that would stop the sticking of these tiny bits of lead to the cavity.  It did, and I was able to cast enough nicely formed bullets to last me a while.   

Notes:
-I'm going to try "Lee-menting" the mould;
-Good, filled out bullets started dropping after about 10 pours;
-I noticed that, unlike the round ball moulds, I had to slow down the speed of my casting or the mould got to hot;
-Lee moulds seem to be kind of temperature sensitive as reflected in the bullets.  Some of the bullets were bright and shiny on the nose and base areas and frosty in the middle.  This indicated to me that the outside areas of the mould cooled faster then the middle area.

I'm having a heck ofa good time!