Author Topic: New build around a 1/3 scale 6-pounder (Read 2779 times)

Mike H. · « **on:** March 24, 2011, 02:50:53 AM »

I have started a new project (my first). It is based on the below 1/3 scale 1841 6pdr barrel. Not having a lathe or machining equipment, I bought the barrel in a 95% finished state. I need to do the final sanding and smoothing of the welds. The tube is turned 1018 with welded trunnions.

I have decided to make a naval or garrison style carriage, for a couple reasons. But the biggest being that I will store/display this inside my house and that style will be more "space effective" than a field carriage. I can always build another later.

I have also committed to use wood (red oak) readily available at Lowes or Home Depot in the thicknesses available there. My woodworking tools consist of a very small, budget table saw, a 6" belt/9" disk sander, floor drill press, and hand tools. I also have a welder that I will use to fab some hardware.

For wheels I will be using 4" cast iron caster wheels, also readily available. I will be modifying them for the application.

I have already roughed out some wood parts, but that is for later posting.....

little seacoast · « **Reply #1 on:** March 24, 2011, 03:22:44 AM »

Very nice barrel! Your tools should be more than adequate for the build, have you looked at Building 18th Century Naval Artillery by Damian Siekonic yet? The soft cover spiral bound book is a great guide to building your carriage and will save you a lot of time and grief. Good luck.

gulfcoastblackpowder · « **Reply #2 on:** March 24, 2011, 03:40:57 AM »

Nice project! My first cannon was my Hern, and I made the carriage for it and it's sister (owned by a friend of mine) out of a single piece of red oak 13'x15"x8/4 - the first time I had done anything like that (made it at a friends house, who has all the appropriate tools). I did it without any guide, but I think having that one would be handy. You'll have fun!

BillinOregon · « **Reply #3 on:** March 24, 2011, 04:13:57 AM »

All eyes and ears here, Mike. That's a very nice looking barrel. What is the bore size?

Mike H. · « **Reply #4 on:** March 24, 2011, 05:10:00 AM »

Quote from: BillinOregon on March 24, 2011, 04:13:57 AM

All eyes and ears here, Mike. That's a very nice looking barrel. What is the bore size?

1". More to come.

Mike H. · « **Reply #5 on:** March 24, 2011, 04:31:40 PM »

I am not modelling a specific carriage, but rather using highpoints and ideas from the tons of photos and drawings online, and in books like Round Shot and Rammers and such. For size I am only going by general ratios based on barrel length. (My barrel is 22" overall.)

I like the idea of scalloped steps, so I am using 1.5x1.5 laminated oak square stock for the side material. The base is two pieces of 3/4 laminated together. I've done some roughing out of the wood over the last couple of days:

The 1x2's across the bottom will hide the 1/2" steel axles. There will also be a center piece inside that is not in the photos.

To get an idea of the looks, I shimmed it up and set the wheels next to it:

That brings you up to date.

rampa room artillery · « **Reply #6 on:** March 24, 2011, 05:31:29 PM »

looking good, try to see what it would look like if you remove the top peice of wood on the carriage. i think it would look better with the barrel sitting lower to the ground. just a thought. rickbryan

Cannoneer · « **Reply #7 on:** March 24, 2011, 10:20:03 PM »

I like the look of it, Mike; please keep posting photos of your progress.

Mike H. · « **Reply #8 on:** March 25, 2011, 02:09:04 AM »

Quote from: rampa room artillery on March 24, 2011, 05:31:29 PM

looking good, try to see what it would look like if you remove the top peice of wood on the carriage. i think it would look better with the barrel sitting lower to the ground. just a thought. rickbryan

Oh oh. Now you've put the doubt back in my head. I have kicked that back and forth for hours sitting in front of my computer toying with it in AutoCAD. You have no idea how torn I am at that point. Ships style is lower, garrison is taller (see my St. Augustine pics). I guess I need to throw the barrel up on it and toy with it some more in real life. Otherwise I won't sleep well. Stay tuned.

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #9 on:** March 25, 2011, 02:15:23 AM »

Quote from: rampa room artillery on March 24, 2011, 05:31:29 PM

looking good, try to see what it would look like if you remove the top peice of wood on the carriage. i think it would look better with the barrel sitting lower to the ground. just a thought. rickbryan

But is HAS to be that tall to shoot out the back window!

little seacoast · « **Reply #10 on:** March 25, 2011, 02:51:51 AM »

You might want to look into the idea of tapering the carriage to make it wider in the rear than in the front.
.

brokenpole · « **Reply #11 on:** March 25, 2011, 03:34:59 AM »

Quote from: Cat Whisperer on March 25, 2011, 02:15:23 AM

Quote from: rampa room artillery on March 24, 2011, 05:31:29 PM
looking good, try to see what it would look like if you remove the top peice of wood on the carriage. i think it would look better with the barrel sitting lower to the ground. just a thought. rickbryan

But is HAS to be that tall to shoot out the back window!

What would you ever be shooting out the back window? Wait I know....cats

Yes I know, poor joke. But I haven't had my coffee yet and it just slipped out.

Double D · « **Reply #12 on:** March 25, 2011, 10:25:31 AM »

Concept looks good. Just needs refined.

Cheeks need to taper front to rear. Wider at rear than front, like the taper on barrel .

Trunnion seats need to be closer to front-centerline about where the front of current trunnion seat is.

Needs upper cross bracing of cheeks.

The cheeks are too tall. I would bet these few tall carriages you and I have seen were built to fit a small cannon in an already existing big embrasure. I'll bet the regular carriage for for that embrasure was not tall. Tall carriages look odd and will increase pitch up especially with heavier loads.

Mike H. · « **Reply #13 on:** March 25, 2011, 01:42:38 PM »

I plan to drop off the top level, and increase the length of the scalloped steps from 1.5" to 2".

I noted above that there will be a cross member between the cheeks, it was just not included in the photos as it is still rough size and did not yet fit without it all falling over.

I thought about the cheek tapering before I started, but the slim taper of the 6pdr did not, IMO, warrant the slight taper that would otherwise make the cuts and alignment more difficult. We'll see. I'd have to buy more wood and remake the base to do it now.

And the front of the cheeks will be tapered rearward slightly from bottom to top, to give it a slightly raked look - that is why the barrel is not more forward.

dan610324 · « **Reply #14 on:** March 25, 2011, 03:20:24 PM »

here you got some more ideas

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #15 on:** March 25, 2011, 03:51:59 PM »

Quote from: brokenpole on March 25, 2011, 03:34:59 AM

Quote from: Cat Whisperer on March 25, 2011, 02:15:23 AM
Quote from: rampa room artillery on March 24, 2011, 05:31:29 PM
looking good, try to see what it would look like if you remove the top peice of wood on the carriage. i think it would look better with the barrel sitting lower to the ground. just a thought. rickbryan

But is HAS to be that tall to shoot out the back window!

What would you ever be shooting out the back window? Wait I know....cats

Yes I know, poor joke. But I haven't had my coffee yet and it just slipped out.

Mike H. · « **Reply #16 on:** March 26, 2011, 11:37:16 AM »

I have made some revisions. Lower and not as long. Here is a PDF drawing. Let me get a little farther on it and I'll post more pics.

Mike H. · « **Reply #17 on:** March 29, 2011, 05:42:08 PM »

I have made some of the suggested revisions. Dropped off the top tier, shortened the carriage length, tipped back the front angle of the cheeks. I can NOT make further changes to other than the axles and trunnion caps - the main body is all glued now. Again, I am NOT going for historical accuracy, just a nice looking carriage that is very strong.

The threaded rods you see now are plated temporary fillers, not cut to length. The permanant ones will be stainless. (I will replace them one at a time.) All hardware not already black oxide will be painted flat black (such as the permanant stainless rod ends).

The vertical 5/16 threaded rods perform double-duty. Along with glue, they hold it together vertically, and also will secure the trunnion caps. That is why the top nuts are resessed. Bottoms are resessed to prevent sight from the sides.

In the photos the carriage is shimmed up with the wheels set next to it for scale:

In my shop, there is a slightly low spot on the floor where my equipment mounted on casters does not make good contact at one wheel and can slightly rock. That has given me the push to do the floating rear axle, as has been done on here previously on larger guns, to help prevent teetering on uneven surfaces. 5/8” square tube will reinforce the 1/2” round axle where I have to drill the pivot point, and I will split a rectangular tube to use as the axle hanger. The entire assembly will be shrouded in oak. Metal for that is on order from Speedymetals.com, as is the stainless 5/16 threaded rod and metals to fab the trunnion caps. Once that gets in I can keep going.

willdj79 · « **Reply #18 on:** March 30, 2011, 05:27:20 PM »

I am interested in building a 1/3 6pdr. barrel like this. Does anyone have a good print or knows where i can be pointed to. Scaled or un-scaled. Thanks

GGaskill · « **Reply #19 on:** March 30, 2011, 06:36:48 PM »

Antique Ordnance Publishers is the source. Get No. 12.

Cannoneer · « **Reply #20 on:** March 31, 2011, 03:41:23 AM »

Mike H.,

When a person builds a carriage of their own design by choosing features from other models to make their own, some of us refer to this as a fantasy carriage. The important thing to remember about this is that it's your fantasy, so make it look the way you want to see it. After having said that, I'll admit that I'm as opinionated as anyone else here, so I'll just slap myself for not being able to keep still.

I think the front transom (the piece between the cheeks) looks a lot better when the top is cut out to follow the curve of the barrel.

Mike H. · « **Reply #21 on:** March 31, 2011, 08:19:38 AM »

Quote from: Cannoneer on March 31, 2011, 03:41:23 AM

...I think the front transom (the piece between the cheeks) looks a lot better when the top is cut out to follow the curve of the barrel.

I agree. But I did not have a saw that would cut that curve. (Band saw is a hard sell to the wife, but still working on that.) Can't readily be seen unless the barrel is off, or carriage is elevated, or you lay down on the floor to look under the barrel. At this point it's hindsight - it's all glued. All I can change now is axle designs and finish.

willdj79 · « **Reply #22 on:** March 31, 2011, 05:49:36 PM »

Quote from: Mike H. on March 31, 2011, 08:19:38 AM

Quote from: Cannoneer on March 31, 2011, 03:41:23 AM
...I think the front transom (the piece between the cheeks) looks a lot better when the top is cut out to follow the curve of the barrel.

I agree. But I did not have a saw that would cut that curve. (Band saw is a hard sell to the wife, but still working on that.) Can't readily be seen unless the barrel is off, or carriage is elevated, or you lay down on the floor to look under the barrel. At this point it's hindsight - it's all glued. All I can change now is axle designs and finish.

I build a lot of pop can siege mortars and i use a $40 jig saw with scrolling blade to cut through 1 1/2 thick oak which will cut a pretty tight radius.

Mike H. · « **Reply #23 on:** April 04, 2011, 05:58:39 PM »

I had only a little time over the weekend, and with that I replaced all the cad-plated all-thread with the stainless. All is cut to fit very nicely and threadlocked.

Tonight I had a little time, so I started the metal work. I cut the axles to length and put together the rear floating axle assembly. Not much to that at all with one this small, as you can see in the pics:

I will be welding the inner square sleeve to the 1/2" axle shaft. The through bolt will be grade-8 with permanent lock-nut. And the entire assembly will be recessed and encased in oak. That will be some time with the router and Dremel.....

Double D · « **Reply #24 on:** April 05, 2011, 03:00:21 AM »

A very clever...

Did consider doing othe the way of the originals? Make the axles smaller than the holes. Wheels on the this type of carriage don't need to be a tight fit.

Mike H. · « **Reply #25 on:** April 05, 2011, 04:34:22 AM »

DD, first and once again, I am very sorry to hear of your loss. I appreciate your posts and insight so soon.

To be honest, I had no clue that any of the originals floated the rear. But I'd still have probably done the same thing. I liked the steel truss arrangement used on the large naval carriage here:

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,115820.msg1098414870.html#msg1098414870

I'm doing that, but on a smaller scale.

I'd like to see some pics of how it was accomplished on the originals, though.

Double D · « **Reply #26 on:** April 05, 2011, 09:06:46 AM »

Quote from: Mike H. on April 05, 2011, 04:34:22 AM

DD, first and once again, I am very sorry to hear of your loss. I appreciate your posts and insight so soon.

I'd like to see some pics of how it was accomplished on the originals, though.

I can sit here and dwell on my loss and vegetate away or I can accept my grief as part of life and get on with it. I know Katherine would not want me feeling sorry for myself...it easy to jump in here and for few minutes to work on going back to normal, the new normal without her. Talking with you guys takes my mind of it...for a while anyway.

Lets See if I can explain this axle concept for you...let me use the SAMCC axle and wheel combination as an example.

Make the axle diameter 1/2". Make the hole in the wheel 5/8".

Mike H. · « **Reply #27 on:** April 05, 2011, 05:53:37 PM »

I have had a couple of requests for my drawings. Here is what I have currently, in AutoCAD 2000 .dwg and .dxf formats. Not everything (details) is there. But you can play with them as you wish.

Mike H. · « **Reply #28 on:** April 10, 2011, 04:47:19 PM »

Another weekend passed, and a little more done. Saturday I finished up the gross metalwork. Only final sanding and prep/filling to do.

Got the trunnion caps done. 1/8" flat stock and 1/8" wall DOM fitted and welded:

After grinding the welds, I coated them with JB weld using the radiused end of a popsicle stick.

Now all I have to do is final sand, fill the pits in the steel with sandable primer, and paint.

Mike H. · « **Reply #29 on:** April 10, 2011, 04:54:51 PM »

Tonight, I attached the steel axle assemblies, including the floating rear axle with hanger. Please keep in mind that these will be completely encased in hand-fitted oak. The bottom will not look like this when completed:

So now I have something to finally slip the wheels on for a test look. The wheels are not pinned on yet, but I had to play a little:

I know this is not a Jeep forum, but I could not resist a shot showing axle articulation: