Don't think corporations pay enough taxes ?

[ironglow]

   So you think the 22% to 38% most corporations pay in federal taxers isn't enough ?  Better contact Obama about his "fair haired boy", who is also the boss at GE. 
       GE pays ZERO federal taxes, even though they scarfed up on a big bailout.  Immelt, General Electric's CEO, is also Obama's "jobs Czar"...even though he sent 20,000 jobs overseas in the last few years..
     http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/03/ge-leader-in-tax-evasion-pays-virtually-no-tax-yet-got-bailed-out-in-crisis.html

  Do you wonder just how he rigged that deal ?

[dukkillr]

For the less thoughtful this is an easy target.  They'll just ramble about how corps pay no taxes with the underlying tone being that such an arrangment is fundamentally unfair.  The reality, however, is more complex.

Say I start and run a corporation that sells cars.  I hire good people, they make a good car, we make a reasonable profit.  Lets say that in a given year that profit is 1 million dollars.  The threshold question could be, why does the government deserve any money, but lets skip that.  The next question is, what happens to that 1 million dollars.  There are a couple of choices.

- Dividends - That money can be paid out to investors.  Those investors will pay taxes on that money.
- Investment - I could, perhaps, add new equipment or work shifts.  Since that money is then no longer in the profit category it does not get taxed, beyond any applicable sales tax

Neither of these make any sense to tax.  Once will hurt investment in new business, the other will be double taxing.  And if you think about it rationally your realize that in the traditional sense, it's impossible for a corporation to make a profit.  The corporation can't go a trip to vegas or buy a new wave runner for his kids.  The corportation can't go to the movies or buy a dog.  The only place that money can go is to expanding the business, or paying the investors. 

Now, explain to me exactly where you think corporate taxes are such a wonderful idea.

[mcwoodduck]

The complexity of the Corperations "don't pay taxes " lie, is that companies build ALL of thier taxes into the price of the good or service they sell or make.
Trillions of $ go from companies and corperations to the state and federal tresuries, but the consumer of those products are the ones that pay those taxes.
If something cost you 100 to make and you will be taxed 40% (income of state and fed combined) on it and you want to make $10 a unit you will need to sell the thing for $114.00 plus shipping.
As some one buys it to resell it they too need to add any income taxes to the cost plus their profit.  Again making $10 on the same thing they good now sells for 128.00 
Any added taxes such as inventory, or personal property tax will be added into the cost of the good.
Again this is why we need to have the TEA party or the conservitive branch of the Republican Party do 30 Second professor adds on TV expalining taxes and how they raise the costs of goods as well as reduce work forces

[Gary G]

GE paid no taxes. Good!
Less slop in the trough for an already bloated government.

[DDZ]

I agree the less corporations have to pay in taxes the better for America. Why is the thought process always toward business's, and corporations not paying enough taxes? The US has some of the highest corporate taxes in the world, but yet we hear the whining from the media and the liberals, that corporations don't pay their fair share. Corporations do invest their profits into expanding, new technology, and research, which equals more jobs. The cost of the taxes corporations have to pay is passed on to the consumers.
People listen to the liberal media and think of big evil corporations, with CEO's stuffing money into their pockets, and how they are not paying enough taxes, and they say yeah, make those dirty rotten corporations pay. Not knowing they will be the ones paying. 
MC is so right. We need the conservative voice telling people how taxes work, and that more money going to government is not a good thing. We have had the liberal, leftist media ruling the roost long enough, and this needs to change or they will be a big reason for turning us into a third world country. 

[ironglow]

  I agree that corporations paying taxes is no more than a "feel good" rule, pasted up by and for liberals.  The buying public pays the tax in the end anyway...and those crooked, liberal lawmakers know it.
   Since it's the liberals here who are insisting that corporations pay taxes, and it's liberals who are always whining about "fairness", figured I would post the article showing the inequities of the system...then they could take their boy Obama to task, concerning his "jobs czar".

[ironglow]

TM says;
". Corp Earnings or profit can now be shifted to offshore entities or low tax states...I can't do that. Individual worker wage slaves can't take advantage of these kinds of writeoffs.."



   Correct TM;
   So if you believe corporations should pay taxes...then you better get after the Obama gang !   Brace them up on their "jobs czar" !

[hillbill]

how about a standard corp tax rate with a certain amount of deduction for every person yu employ?talk about incentive to expand?

[ironglow]

how about a standard corp tax rate with a certain amount of deduction for every person yu employ?talk about incentive to expand?

  Hillbill;
  I believe that is already automatically taken care of;
   
      Corporations are formed to make money and quite simply, make as much as they can..within the bounds of the law and ethics.  If a corporation sees the chance to expand and make more money, they will hire more people to accomplish their expansion..just as natural as a bear to honey.
   Things that cause corps to refrain from hiring are..added taxes, excessive regulations, costly fringe benefits, threat of union organizing , demands by unions, etc.  When these items prove more costly than the automation to replace them...the automation wins...or they simply do not expand.  There is no point to expanding if it cost them profits..

   Simplest way to grow the economy...elementary foirmula; ..take the above mentioned constraints off business...

[nomosendero]

For the less thoughtful this is an easy target.  They'll just ramble about how corps pay no taxes with the underlying tone being that such an arrangment is fundamentally unfair.  The reality, however, is more complex.

Say I start and run a corporation that sells cars.  I hire good people, they make a good car, we make a reasonable profit.  Lets say that in a given year that profit is 1 million dollars.  The threshold question could be, why does the government deserve any money, but lets skip that.  The next question is, what happens to that 1 million dollars.  There are a couple of choices.

- Dividends - That money can be paid out to investors.  Those investors will pay taxes on that money.
- Investment - I could, perhaps, add new equipment or work shifts.  Since that money is then no longer in the profit category it does not get taxed, beyond any applicable sales tax

Neither of these make any sense to tax.  Once will hurt investment in new business, the other will be double taxing.  And if you think about it rationally your realize that in the traditional sense, it's impossible for a corporation to make a profit.  The corporation can't go a trip to vegas or buy a new wave runner for his kids.  The corportation can't go to the movies or buy a dog.  The only place that money can go is to expanding the business, or paying the investors. 

Now, explain to me exactly where you think corporate taxes are such a wonderful idea.

Very true!!

[billy_56081]

Have you ever noticed what is common to the liberal mindset? It is the inability to use common sense and link. If abc corporation makes gasoline and sell it and is taxed on its profits they add the cost of those taxes on to the cost of the gasoline. Well as Ron White said "you can't fix stupid". We have a perfect example of Ron's logic right in front of us.   

[crustylicious]

Now we've got two 

[ironglow]

  First; folks must learn the difference between corporations and individuals...


        BTW:  Here is too much truth for some folks to handle ..all by themselves;

 

Subj: $ 50.00 Lesson

 I recently asked my neighbors' little girl what she
wanted to be when she grows up. She said she
wanted to be President some day. Both of her
parents, liberal Democrats, were standing there,
so I asked her, 'If you were President what would
be the first thing you would do? '
 
She replied, 'I'd give food and houses to all the
homeless people.'
 
Her parents beamed with pride.
 
'Wow...what a worthy goal.' I told her, 'But you
don't have to wait until you're President to do that!
You can come over to my house and mow the lawn,
pull weeds, and sweep my yard, and I'll pay you $50.
Then I'll take you over to the grocery store where the
homeless guy hangs out, and you can give him the
$50 to use toward food and a new house. '
 
She thought that over for a few seconds, then she
looked me straight in the eye and asked, ' Why
doesn't the homeless guy come over and do the
work, and you can just pay him the $50? '
 
I said, 'Welcome to the conservative perspective....

     .....Her parents still aren't speaking to me...

[billy_56081]

So true IG, sadly so true.

[mauser98us]

Corps don't pay taxes. All this is passed on to the end user.

[billy_56081]

Corps don't pay taxes. All this is passed on to the end user.

Give the man a gold star, he has figured out what our libtard members have not.

[DakotaElkSlayer]

IG:

First; folks must learn the difference between corporations and individuals...   

Actually, as far as the IRS is concerned corps, partnerships, and individuals are 'entities' and are pretty much the same. Only some citizens think there is a big difference.


..TM7

Actually, didn't the Supreme Court just give Corporations constitutional rights that were always reserved for the individual?  So, if we tax a corporation, they just raise the price of their products...SO?!!!  If they don't pay taxes, who do you think makes up for the money lost?!  Be a CONSERVATIVE and look at the TRADITIONAL way government has been funded since the Feds started the income tax.  Hear a lot of people talk about how great things were back in the 1950's in this country, so why don't we return our tax system to those bygone years?  Heck, the way you guys are talking, you are being very PROGRESSIVE with your views, some would say LIBERAL since you want to change the traditional ways of our tax system.
  Since all you folks like to state that taxes and unions are the main reason why companies are moving overseas, do a little research on those things through the last eighty years or so in this country.  I am betting that you will find that as union membership declines, as corporate tax rates decline, more and more jobs are being lost overseas.  Look it up and tell me I am wrong...but back it up with FACTS.

Jim

[ultramag44]

Corps don't pay taxes. All this is passed on to the end user.

EXACTLY!  There is no such thing as a business tax (almost)!  There are extremly few instances where a business is taxed, and NOT allowed to pass the cost on to the consumer.
Tax business and there's a tipping point where the product or service is priced out of the market.

 The only time I think a business should not be allowed to pass the cost on is in the case of a fine, or court judgement.  Raising the cost of product to cover the fine/judgement is simply cost shifting.

If you get a speeding ticket  because you're rushing to a meeting at work, can you get your employers to pay the fine?  No, it's out of your pocket.  Business that's fined or has to pay a judgement should not be allowed to raise prices, lay off workers, or sell of parts of the business.  It should be like you or me...take the loss / take it in the shorts.

[300winman]

You don't put an income tax on businesses.......you tax the people or investors that get to pocket some of those profits.........I do believe free-trade needs to go bye-bye and an import tax put in place to keep jobs here int he US.  That is the main focus.

My dad worked(key word: worked) for a company that produces parts for the auto industry.  They laid off thousands of people in Michigan, Ohio, and Indiana to send their manufacturing to Reynosa, Mexico to save costs.... In this instance it would be beneficial to make it more expensive to bring those parts across the border,  than have it made here.  Even a tax break for US made products.....And I don't want to hear "but prices would go up"  because if you haven't noticed, cars haven't gotten any cheaper since all this outsourcing started, actually they have gotten more expensive.....Company profits are small compared to the cost of labor, which if left here, keeps the US dollar at home.

[SHOOTALL]

Corp's don't pay taxes their customers do . Consider also the tax charged to customers is marked up in the price as it is a cost . So if they can make a profit on the tax thru. mark up why would they complain ? Not voting has little to do with it really in alot of cases.

[SHOOTALL]

1) I don't see what they do in other countries as a cost to Americans any more than other corps from other countries doing business in America.
2) If a corp is not selling there would be no profit to tax.
3)These investments are from stock owned by in many cases American stock holders and the profit gained by them is paid as income tax.

[SHOOTALL]

1)  why would there be US taxes ? But if there were why wouldn't the cost be passed to the buyer no matter where he lives ?
I think you confuse national debt with corp profits ?
2)Again no sale no tax how is no tax passed to others ? Again national debt is not corp earnings .
3)If you can't afford it then how are you taxed on the profit ?

It seems that you are looking to make a few pay the cost of running a country not each person pay their fair share. A very soicalist idea I might add .

[ironglow]

  TM says;
   
a) The IRS considers the individual and corp as entities about on par....actually an individual can access pretty much any loop hole, credit, deduction, depreciation, expense, etc. as a corp does if structured to do so. Corps can only pass on price increases insofar as the market will bear...than they lose sales


  I say;
   Are you sure about that TM ?  If so, can a small corporation which made some bad choices  and turns out to be a loser..can they turn in for "earned income tax credit"..and have their losses made up ..just as some individuals do ?  I haven't heard of any corporations doing that.
   That "earned income tax credit" is really a joke..it should be called "UNearned income tax credit"...since those who gobble up that money, have not earned it !!

[billy_56081]

How about someone give me an estimate on what gas would cost now if oil companies paid a 35% tax on their profits?

Or let's make it simple would gas prices be higher or lower if oil companies were taxed 35% on profits?

[Dixie Dude]

This is why I think the VAT tax is more fair.  Say a corporation makes a profit of $100 on a product.  It doesn't pay tax, but a 5% tax is levied on the product when it is sold to the wholesaler and then when the wholesaler sells it to the retailer another 5%.  When the retailer sells it to you, another 5%.  So the product now costs $115.76 to the end customer.  Government got $15.76.  Now with a corporate income tax, they either pay their share holders dividends, invest in the system, give pay raises, buy raw materials, or invest in offshore manufacturing to avoid paying taxes.  Government gets nothing. 

Now this same company may have to buy raw materials to make it's product, they then pay 5% tax on their raw materials.  So the govenment gets another tax from that sale. 

Imported goods would get this same 5% tax even though they weren't made here and probably had no tarrif on them. 

If you earn money, but don't pay income tax.  You either spend that difference and pay taxes when you spend it, or you can save your money for retirement or something.  Your earned interest would not get taxed, only when you spend it. 

This way no one gets out of paying tax, everyone pays.  Rich pay more because they spend more. 

You might could say well this hurts the poor.  Well everyone has to eat, maybe you could avoid paying sales tax on food, at the retailer, not the wholesale level.  Farmer would have to pay when he bought fertilizer and fuel for farming.  Food processing companies would have to pay when they bought it from the farmer.  Wholesaler would have to pay, Retailer would have to pay, but the end consumer could get off without paying to help the poor. 

Retail for drugs or doctors expense could be omitted from the tax but the doctors would pay when they bought equipment, etc. 

A properly implemented VAT tax would take in more money for the feds than income tax can.  People and companies would have more choices as to how they spend or save their money.  Not taxing savings would encourage savings.  Only taxing when you bought a good or service would put you in control of your money.