I DO NOT RECOMMEND!!

[snaresonly]

I am the only person trapping a 27 square mile island. We have a population of 14,000 people.  we have almost as many deer as people. I am only trapping 3 out of 15 farms. We have more problem raccoons in the center of town then crime. The last time the area was upland trapped was about 2yrs ago

[rascal (Joe Duncan)]

Ace;
  On the subject of competition and sloppy sets making the coyotes wary:
  Back in the "boom days" I remember every Tom, Dick and Harry decided they wanted to be a trapper.  They would get a generalized book on trapping and THAT made them a trapper. :wink:  They would go out, make goofy looking dirthole sets and just generally screw up a set location with sloppy techniques and rotted meat or lures they purchased from a sporting goods store.  I countered that with knowing where the coyotes were going and would simply move away from that screwed up location a few hundred yards and went nearly exclusively to flat/scent post sets and was very cautious in making my sets.  A small amount of gland lure and urine was it!  I picked up the coyotes and they picked up the skunks and possum.  I put the coyotes on drags so they could get hid and those guys didn't even know I was there.  One of them came to me and asked how it was I was catching the coyotes since he sure couldn't.  I said "I guess I just got lucky". :roll:  Most of those guys are long gone from trapping.  Slip shod set construction, unclean habits, and poor quality lures are a sure way NOT to catch coyotes.

WQ;
  I thought about what you said about my "sloppy sets".  I went back yesterday and looked them over good and when I really studied them; heck, they still looked pretty good to me

[Wackyquacker]

Asa you must be psychopathic, :roll:  I was thinking that, that must have been the origin of your teachings just yesterday.

The point however is still relevant especially when trouble shooting…cleanliness eliminates many questions along with putting a few more furs on the stretchers.

I hope you didn’t think that it was your suggestions that I thought would be a waste of time on my line …I didn’t know until after one of your posts that you changed your boots every time you got in and out of the truck.  :-D  :-D    While on the subject of boots, the very first trap I set, on my mentors line, the coyote came up to the set and stopped right where the toes of my boots had been planted.  I run a kennel and have lots of smells on my boots.  Now I don’t fret about such things too much but on occasion I do “disinfect” my boots in a pile of donkey apples.

You and others have mentioned time at the set and scent etc.  In addition to scent, which is apparently more of a problem in some locals, the “fast” setter may just be a better setter (picks the best location, backing, has all he needs at arms length, is just flat out prepared physically and mentally)…that’s why he’s fast.  I'll bet a nickle most sloppy sets take more time than a good set :wink:

Snares says, that when he went from 10 min to 1 min hanging a snare his catch went up.  Two points come to mind…in the interim he learned and gained confidence which allowed him to move both efficiently and effectively.  The second point comes in regional differences.  For example last evening it took 4 “Q-Tips, both ends to remove the dust from each of my ears (and no RdFx and Rascal I don’t have donkey ears and yes I shower daily) after I had showered.  Scent remains and hangs differently in different regions of the country…I think.

[RdFx]

Sniff, sniff, sniff;  oh yea that wind must be fm Corrales NM..  wait i smell something else  (im practicing to be a yote in sniffen), yep burro scent mixed with doggy doo!.. Must be Wacky!  Dang that winter western wind  Wacky stinks the place up.  Now if you go out my back door all you smell is money  ; called skunk scent lol lol. heh heh

[Asa Lenon]

Wacky writes....
Scent remains and hangs differently in different regions of the country…I think.

I believe that the more humidity in the air, the longer odors linger.  Then of course there is more vegetation, brush, trees, weeds, tall grass, ferns, etc.  to brush up against and directly rub off odor in some localities. As i've said before, human and foreign odors at or near sets takes on more or less significance depending upon the conditioning of the canine and the type of terrain along with the humidity factor.  Some younger trappers and trapper instructors of the past 30 years like to paint the writings and methods of the early teachers as vodoo and nonsense, some even suggesting they were old fools.   However, for example, the early masters such as Walter Arnold, E. J. Dailey, O. L. Butcher and Herb Lenon all lived in and trapped pristine wilderness areas of the country which were also areas of high humidity and plenty of vegetation. Believe me, when they wrote of clean standards as an issue in maximum harvesting, they knew from experience what they were talking about.  But once again, a trapping instructor would be remiss not to include the cleanliness standard into their instruction by second guessing the trappers locality, weather, humidity and animal conditioning.  The novice trapper must start off with a positive professional attitude, doing every detail to the max if they want to succeed. These are my students who shined over all others. After seasons of experience they are then equipped to make adjustments according to their necessity and style in their region.  I know Joe didn't mean to imply that one could be sloppy and harvest at a maximum level.  However, I was afraid when I replied to this thread that novice trappers would take it that way.  Afterall, us old timers wouldn't want to see years of instruction on high  standards go down the tube in one thread.  Ace

[snaresonly]

Ace let me demonstrate how I set to see it is sloppy compared to standards. I have a clean pair of rubber hip boots that stay in the back of my truck. I put them on at each location. I have coat that I wear. In one pocket I carry snares, another has cablecutters and misc. junk. A rear pouch has lures.  I walk about 20 from sets and move in on it only to remake or take game. It takes me less then a minute. 5minutes if I have caught something,but generally with the snare I cannot reuse that location have to adjust.
My first 2 weeks I carried a bucket with all of the pouches. When I would go into the set I would sit the bucket down, get out what I needed. change gloves. It would take me 10 to 15 minutes. Almost like setting up camp. I was not catching much when doing this.

[Asa Lenon]

Snaresonly: Like I mentioned before, one can incorporate  decent clean standards into their routine without it costing them 5 minutes a day.  With your experience you have learned to adjust to what is reasonably necessary for you and not be wasting any steps or time.  Ace :-)

[RdFx]

Just to throw a wrench into the proceeding, Oaky or O. L. Butcher and E. J. Dailey were  (very) heavy cigarette  smokers.  I know some of my friends that come over to visit i can smell them INSTANTLY lol, and if they want to smoke they go outside.  Being that Dailey and Oaky smoked alot   i know that there bodies carried that smoke smell with them.. also if you notice especially people that smoke filterless cigs that there fingers are stained yellow which hold cig.  Just a thought for  considering on what we are discussing

[Asa Lenon]

RdFx:
 One reeking of a mixture of sweat and tobacco smoke seems likely to cause a few set rejections as it is difficult to believe that such a strong odor around the set area wouldn't cause some adverse reaction.  If the trappers left each morning on their trapline with clean bodies and clean clothing, the fresh tobacco smoke odor probably wouldn't have much if any effect.  I'm sure a canine doesn't know burining tobacco from burning any other smoke they may have become accustomed to.   Like all trappers, its not how many animals E. J. Dailey and O. L. Butcher caught, but how many more they may have possibly harvested had they not been smokers or paid attention to more detail period.  There is one other aspect too, both Dailey and Butcher were just fox trappers, there was no coyotes in their region during their trapping careers.  We all know that coyotes can be way more wary than any fox.
Ace :grin:

[RdFx]

Your right on that Ace as far as smoke as look at how  bear are attracted to certain smoke scents ect smf the old burnt bits of meat at the old campfire set.   I know of one very good fox trapper that  smoked while he made sets and caught alot of fox BUT as you say what would he have caught if  using clean methods ect.... Sometimes you wonder how an old stinky yote can smell anything lol.    One can look at the ability of some of the last buffalo wolves out west that avoided  just about everything  that wasnt normal for them...  Some of the yotes im sure are just as  cautious and live to an old age if not shot by some lucky preditor or deer hunter.

[snaresonly]

I do know this for a fact. My longtime hunting partner smokes, I dip. We hunted the same piece of land for years. he could see for 150yds and I could see for 40yds. We saw the same amount of deer. His where a 100yds away though. We lost that land 4yrs ago. Our new hunting land is dense, farthest shot 50yds, that was making a clearing to see that far. He no longer sees any deer. I still get deer every year. The only factor that differs is that he smokes. This is still in a high traffic area, with alot of human scent.

[Asa Lenon]

Snaresonly:
  I know this guy, a heavy smoker, from down state that has a cabin a half mile from me.  For twenty years he sat in a tree during bow season and never once bagged a buck.  I used to tell him you have to be clean to get them in close and use the prevailing wind direction when choosing a place to construct a blind. This year he come down all smiles and happy, between bow season and gun season he bagged three good sized bucks, couldn't believe his luck.  I didn't say anything but I was thinking that he quit smoking earlier this year and would bet this was his new found secret to success.  When us non smokers can detect a smoker for 30 feet or more, imagine how far a whitetail could smell that same strong odor. After he would sit in the tree blind for hours, i'm sure that odor was permeated into all of the surrounding vegetation.  Considering one has to get a buck up within a few yards to ensure a good bow shot, I think that is it.   Like I keep on harping about year after year, when a number of trappers trap the same area, like they especially did here during the bounty era, many using the same lures and making the same sort of sets and one or two of them consistently hit 100 coyotes in a season and the other 20 or so trappers harvest somewhere between Zero and 30 coyotes each, what is the reason for this?  The answer is PAYING ATTENTION TO DETAIL! Smoking may have cost them 3 coyotes, dirty boots 6 coyotes, taking too long to construct sets 9 coyotes, unnatural looking sets 7 coyotes, crouding animals by making sets where the animal feels insecure 8 coyotes, using poor lures or using them inappropriately 13 coyotes, leaving human tracks in the sand or snow 9 coyotes, leaving pools of blood after a catch 7 coyotes, leaving piles of pulled grass, chopped roots or broken brush in the set area 4 coyotes, taking along a buddy to double the scent trails,  6 coyotes, spitting or urinating in the set area, 10 coyotes, rusty or unclean traps, 8 coyotes, setting traps where the approach is obstructed or not on level ground 4 coyotes, plus 14 other smaller details, 1 coyote each.  There 'ya go, all 100 coyotes down the drain while the trapper is looking for the 100+coyote trappers big secret or secret lure that animals can't resist.  Both my Dad and I have been accused by failing trappers of holding out and using secret lure formulas that we didn't sell to other trappers. I think I made my point!  Ace

[snaresonly]

yup, when I checked my traps today after having the kids out to check yesterday, catch on that piece was "0"
However where I trap on the game farm it didn't matter. since they have 50 people a day walking through every field and hedge. Those animals are so use to people you could piss right on the set and they wouldn't care.

[Thumper]

I have to agree with much of the experience other trappers have found. I've made some rather poor sets in haste, looking back thinking I would catch nothing more than a grinner, then to my suprise I find a cannine. I've often wondered if by making a set as clean as possible, we are arousing suspicion in cannines by being "too clean". I can go throw a deer carcas that's been lying on my garage floor collecting every possible smell onto a pile with plenty of human tracks, and then see yote tracks the next day. It's no revelation that many animals associate humans with food. Ask any camper. I've always joked that the best way to catch coon is to throw a bag of garbage in a field and surround it with traps. Maybe I'm not so far off. We need to remember all the predators we are after are still opportunistic as well, and will take an easy meal if possible. A farmer that I trap his land told me he has yotes running along side his plow in the spring, he kicks up mice and the yotes have lost all fear of him. He said they will sit off about 300 yards and wait for him to start plowing. This is the part were I scratch my head. If my bravery (or stupidity) prevails, I may rub some sweaty socks on a few sets and urinate on a nearby bush...or not. Happy trails!

 :-D

[Asa Lenon]

Thumper:
 What you say certainly seems to apply to your locality.  However, in my neck of the woods, and i've been here 61 years, i've never seen or heard of a coyote following a farm tractor or rumaging anyone's garbage. In fact, one very seldom ever sees a coyote at all! Thousands of deer get killed by cars every year and are lying on the edge of the roads and I don't recall ever seeing a coyote eating on a dead deer along the road day or night, ever.  Coyotes are so wary of most large baits that they won't come to them for several days if at all.  By the time they determine that it may be safe, the ravens have consumed it.  For example, I killed a buck first morning of our deer season, gutted him out and took him home, come back for another try.  Ravens and eagles were already consuming the gut pile.  While I sat in my blind I saw a coyote out about 150 yards traipsing back and forth looking in the direction of the gut pile and birds.  He never would come any closer.  Later on, about 3 or 4 hours later, the coyote appeared about 100 yards on the opposite size of the gut pile.  Now this is typical coyote behavior in my area.  This is why I advocate a high level standard for all trappers if they want to harvest at a maximum level.  Every location varies in canine behavior but all are somewhere between the extremes of my locality versus your area. No one's trapline  can be harmed by paying attention to too many details.  However, one's harvest can possibly be severely compromised by the omission of too many details.  Ace

[rascal (Joe Duncan)]

I got this started so I guess I better add more!.

Thumper;
  I totally agreed with what Ace said about the big baits.  I have never done well using large baits and making sets up close.  Just never has worked for me.  Even a beaver carcass will be eaten by other animals before a coyote will come and feed but if I put a walnut sized chunk of beaver meat in a properly made dirthole, he will come in every time if all other factors are right.  
  I also have seen coyote stand far off and watch as a farmer put out hay but would keep on the move and  never get very far from cover and would bolt off at the slightest provocation.  
  As far as "sweaty socks" :lol:   I PROMISE you a coyote hates the smell of human sweat!!  NEVER LET THEM SMELL YOU SWEAT!  A human scent located in a heavily populated area may not bother a coyote when he is on the move but let one drop of sweat hit the ground at your set and you are guaranteed a possum rather than a coyote.  In warm weather, I even go so far as to get away from the set if I start heating up enough to sweat and then cool off and go back to it.  I will even take my warm clothing off enough to stay cooler than comfortable at a set.  It insures that I don't sweat and also makes me work a little faster. :lol:   I may be able to get away with human scent from my clean bare hands, but I will never let Mr. Coyote see me sweat.

[Wackyquacker]

...I will never let Mr. Coyote see me sweat.

Well DAH, if he's a watchin you put the trap in of course he'll stay away.

Now here is one of those regional things...large baits / carcasses.  I just took the fifth coyote off a carcass a couple hours ago.  Man do I like carcasses!  I've taken as many as 17 coyotes off of one.  Now I start out a few hundred yards to 1/2 mile and work in closer when the carcass is gone.  I wonder why out here on the open range a carcass is dynamite and in the "east" they don't work.  I have often figured that the "tightness" of the Eastern forrests just make the coyotes more wary of  "things that are too good to be true"

[Asa Lenon]

Wacky:
  When one has a large sized bait  like a pile of deer guts or a whole dead deer, the coyote and fox will come quite readily if the bait is out in a clearing so the canine can see clearly around while its eating.  If that pile is in the woods or brush, they would generally starve to death while they circled the area for days.  That observation brings up a good point that I have always emphasized to my students.  Always construct sets where there is no obstructions to the canines view 360 degrees around the set.  I use a 30 foot clear view as a rule of thumb but I prefer 50 or more feet.  I have watched from a blind many red fox and coyote approach a set, look carefully around in all directions several times and then lower their head for a sniff of the lure or peek into the hole.  Many times if their view is the least bit obstructed they get so nervous that eventually they just leave without ever lowering their head and taking that final critical step.  There are always exceptions to the rule as all canines have a varying personality, some being more agressive than others, etc.  I have utilized big baits at times and cleaned up on coyotes around them.  This was always a very big bait like a horse or cow that died and the farmer drug it back into the back of his farm.  This size baits would last long enough for the canines to get used to the idea before it was devoured by bears, ravens and eagles.  It would generally take three days before they come in real close.  I keep traps back from the bait 50 to 150 feet or so and pick them off as they circle in closer and closer.  Ace :grin:

[rascal (Joe Duncan)]

WQ;
  If those coyotes weren't starving to death, they wouldn't come to that large bait.   I think your locale is probably good for large baits since the type of terrain you are in is so vast and the coyotes have to really work for their meals.  Am I right?  
  I recently trapped a farm where there were a lot of dead cattle.  The land owner has an livestock auction and therefore gets a lot of "downers" that must be destroyed.   I did not catch a single coyote up close to the carcasses.  Plenty of skunk and possum but had to get way back to get the coyotes.  Seems they were more intent on carrying bleached bones around.  I would find bleached bones moved from one place to another.  True, there was plenty of other food source available.  I would make a t-bone set and nab the coyotes.   I took my sets further out than Ace.  Since it was open pasture land, I would go out about 100 yards or more and pick them up.  
  I also tried a carcass that was just inside the timber line and could not get a coyote to even work my set nearby.   The buzzards, crows, possum, skunks and other vermin cleaned the carcass without me ever seeing a coyote track right up close to the carcass.   The picked clean, bleached bones were the only place I would catch the coyotes.

[Asa Lenon]

I think your right about food supply Joe.  Generally it seems the Western states, in desert and prairie localities have a lot of coyotes and lesser food supply so they have to risk their hide more in order to survive.  Western trappers have many time pointed out to me the extreme differences in trapping the low land coyotes in comparison to the mountain coyotes in their same region.  Coyotes here don't need to risk anything to survive, there is food every inch of the way.  This is why even small baits used at a set don't perform well here either, it takes a good multi-ingredient lure that appeals to their curiosity, nature and passion as well as their hunger if one wants to ensure they bother working a set.  Ace :grin:

[Wackyquacker]

Asa, do you have any idea where a fellow could get such a lure? :-D  :-D  :-D  :-D  :-D  :-D  :-D  :-D  :-D

Joey, they don't call you the grinner king for nothin!

[Asa Lenon]

:grin: Sure DO Wacky!    Ace

[Thumper]

Come on guys! It's a joke! Lighten up a bit! Yes, the yotes do follow tractors around in the spring and yes I do see tracks around deer carcasses, not road kills though. I am fortunate to have an abundance of fox/yotes in my area. Often times I see fox sunning on hillsides this time of year. Granted, most yotes do not bother deer as rabbits are numerous as well. Just trying to have a little fun here.
 

[Asa Lenon]

Thumper...      OK! Ace

[fishdaddy]

in los-angeles calif. coyotes are living in the city running the streets at night. about 3 or 4 yrs. ago a little girl was attacked and killed by one.

[Asa Lenon]

Concerning big city coyotes running the streets and raiding garbage cans, if I were trapping there I wouldn't vary one iota the high standards I have incorporated into my routine.  One either has a full time professioanal attitude or a slipshod attitude.  Concerning what some say about excess human scent not being an issue with urban coyotes, I would disagree.  I don't think even a Los Angeles city coyote would raid a garbage can if the human scent was so strong that he feared the human was hiding in the can, LOL!  Ace :grin:  :lol:  :grin:

[jim-NE]

I don't even use gloves anymore, either. didn't seem to hurt my catch much. we have a high human population density here, too.

[Wackyquacker]

Gloves rally won't help a dang bit keeping human scent off of things.  But if you set with gloves and lure bare handed or vice versa, the gloves will help you keep from getting lure on to your traps.   :wink:

Also, gloves are like hair...they take some of the "sting" out of a bump on the head or a miss fired trap :oops:

[RdFx]

Wacky i didnt know  trappers out yr way wear gloves over thier heads when they are trapping     :lol:   :shock:   As you know  without my stetson i   have a C     L   Head   :grin:

[Wackyquacker]

A FAT head Maybe :-D

Anyone that would invite a fellow 1300 miles to a Barby and then stand him up doesn't deserve a new nothin! :?

You old Weenie :-D  :-D  :-D