muzzle break?

[jabey9210]

I just purchased a .280 barrel for my wife from a fellow GBO member and was wondering what if she doesn't like the recoil of a .280 then I guess I'll have to get a muzzle break installed but then got to thinking with the exception of the stubby-maxi I can't recall ever hearing about people putting them on handi's is there a reason cause surely others out there are recoil sensitive as well.

[bikerbeans]

jabey,

H&R made handis with brakes, they are called "Ultra Comps", I do not know which calibers the break was offer on.  You will see them for sale occassionally in the GBO classifieds and on the auction sites.

I have a 308x444 HB Handi with a gunsmith installed muzzle break.  The break does cut back on the recoil but at the price of a lot of NOISE.  I have very bad hearing and still must wear plugs and muffs to shoot this gun.  I do not shoot it at the range if others are there, unless I course I want them to leave.   I would not want to shoot this gun from a blind.

BB

[LONGTOM]

I agree with biker, they are just to loud and that is coming from someone with over 50% loss of hearing in both ears.
They do work and some quit well but I just can't stand them.
I did install a ported choke in my 12ga shorty when using 3" #4 buck to calm it down some with good results but it also increases the nose level a lot!



LONGTOM

[petemi]

In my opinion, a limbsaver would work better if she has a problem with the recoil.  She could develop a flinch more from the blast than the recoil.  I don't like them, and don't own them, and I shoot some awful loads in the .500 and .45-70.

Pete

[thejanitor]

I have hunted with two guys in a duck boat (me in the middle) and they both had ported
 12 ga 3 1/2 inch guns. It is no fun hunting with someone who has a ported barrel. Maybe hunting alone with one is fine but it made me not wish to hunt ducks with the group any more. And the group is my best friends. I like the idea of less recoil but the price of hearing loss isn't worth it.

Have you thought about a 7mm-08? May not be THE answer but it has less recoil and can be loaded very efficiently and shoots pretty flat like a .280. (Not exactly like a .280, but not a rainbow gun either...) Good luck,, thejanitor

[petemi]

I think thejanitor, Brent, has an excellent idea.  For all practical purposes the 7mm-08 will do just about anthing the .280 will do with less punishment.  It's a nice comfortable rifle to shoot.  Actually, I never minded the recoil of the .308 either, and I'm a skinny little kid.  I'm so old, numb, and arthritic, I don't mind recoil from about anything.  I'm gonna be 70 Saturday, and have worked manually for 30 years.  I can't tell if the aches and pains are from recoil or just from arthritis and normal activity.  Loading horse feed in the bin creates more pain than shooting a max load out of the .45-70 or .500.  I guess what I'm saying is I ache in a lot of places most of the time.  A little more doesn't bother me, don't even notice it.

I believe "recoil" is 50% muzzle blast, 25 percent in your head, and 25% actual felt recoil.

Pete

[gcrank1]

After researching comments on the 'net I am not convinced they reduce reward recoil all that much (and I have seen one chart of measured recoil impulse), though I do believe they can tame muzzle rise decently.
First step in recoil control is an upgrade (the Limbsaver pad is most often mentioned here) of the recoil pad itself.
I use the stock one with a slip on over it for my 727 Overkill, nasty thing that it is.
With a full length stock and the slip on it would quite possibly be too long for her, but the 'Youth' length buttstock, with the double pad set up would likely then come out about right.
If that were not enough, the next step would maybe be a Mercury Recoil Suppressor in the buttstock.
Last would be porting the muzzle.

[cwlongshot]

As you have read THE reason is the redirected noise to shooter and especially bystanders. It gets down right offensive.

I have had a couple. They absolutely do work and some work very well. About the only ones I tolerate are the two on my target pistols ( shooting sub sonic ammo) and another that has trapazodal cuts in the barrel of a revolver. The Target pistols have it for for control during rapid fire than recoil reduction. The magnaported barrel is not as efficient in reduce g recoil but does take out the sting of hot loads.

Back in '87 I built a 35Whelen. I listened to people about it horrendous recoil. So I opted for a screw on muzzle brake. It worked very well. Making 200g hot loads feel like shooting my featherweight 243. BUT the debris I knocked off the rafters of the firing line. Coupled with the dirty looks from shooters to my side where not so nice. I removed it the first game animal I shot with it. It rung my ears good!!!

Pete has excellent suggestions. Gets good pad and be sure the stock fits her WELL. Correct  ergonomics goes a long way to overall comfort and accuracy.

Good luck,
CW

[MSP Ret]

I have a 30-06 compensated (muzzle brake) Ultra Comp barrel and it's probably loud, but a 30-06 is loud anyway. Just load up some slightly reduced loads for the .280 and she will be fine with it. That said, a good recoil pad (limbsaver) is a great addittion to any rifle with substantial recoil....<><....

[bikerbeans]

BUT the debris I knocked off the rafters of the firing line.

CW,

The first time I shot my 308x444 I thought it came apart because stuff flew everywhere.  Turns out it "blew" all the spent rimfire cases off the shooing bench.

BB

[gcrank1]

So, you became the dedicated 'range sweeper'   

[jabey9210]

I full well know the noise of a muzzle break and am not worried about the recoil she will feel while shooting at an animal cause she shot her deer last year with my 7mm wsm because the dear was at 375yrds and I didn't feel comfortable with her shooting at it with her .243 she said she didn't even feel it when it went off.  But she will not shoot the 7mm wsm while practicing because of felt recoil she is only 5 ft tall and about 125 lbs.  That being said the reason for the .280 over the 7mm-08 is because where we hunt a 400 yrd shot is not uncommon because of the steep canyons and ungodly amount of pines not to mention the deer there are the size of elephants.  She has a boyds thumbhole stock.  How does the butt pad on that compare to a limbsaver.  All mine have limbsavers on them except for my handi's.  She shoots my buddy's .280 just fine but his is a savage with a 26" varmint contour aftermarket barrel and because of the weight kicks like a .243.  I'm not a fan of the muzzle break myself but I don't know what to do if she isn't satisfied with the recoil.

[quickdtoo]

She has a boyds thumbhole stock.  How does the butt pad on that compare to a limbsaver. 

Boyds H&R t-hole stocks come with at least two different pads, I have several, Pachmayr Decelerator or a thin Marlin pad, the Pachy is great, comparable to the Limbsaver and nicer looking, more durable, the Marlin pad looks nice and works fine on light kickers, but it isn't much good for reducing felt recoil, but the t-hole stock itself is as you probably well know.

Just an FYI, don't look for an H&R Ultracomp in 280, they only made them in 270 and 30-06.

Tim

[jabey9210]

thanks quick hers has the pachmayr on it.  I already have a barrel coming from a fellow gbo member so if we decide on a muzzle break I have a local gunsmith that would install it.  I'm not familiar with mercury tubes and may consider that as well.  I went with a thumbhole originally because whether it's true or not I read the ergonomics of a thumbhole reduces such felt recoil.  Plus as a bonus I like the looks.

[Sourdough]

First let's talk brakes.  There are all kinds of brakes.  Some reduce recoil by 50%, others reduce recoil 100%.  With everything in between covered well.  I have a Handi Ultra Comp in 30-06.  When I was shooting it last Friday at the range, the people next to me had to come over and have a look at it.  They were feeling the muzzleblast and the noise was more than they were expecting.  I have brakes on That 30-06, my .338/378 Weatherby (for obvious reasons), and I just had one installed on a Handi 25-06.  I like to see the bullet strike the target when I shoot, hence the brake.

You do not hunt or shoot a gun with a brake without hearing protection on period.  My buddy Russ shot his .338 Ultra Mag one time without hearing protection, killed the Moose, but after that he is vertually deaf.  Russ wears hearing aids ever since that day, and they drive him crazy. 

I have several guns with brakes, and I am already hard of hearing (Noisy machinery during Air Force days).  I wear Action Ears or something comperable while hunting, so having hearing protection availiable is not a problem for me.  I always have it on.  In fact I now don't shoot anything without hearing protection.  One exception, my 30-06 with a sound suppressor, "silencer" to some folks.

When my wife started hunting she was 4'11" and weighed 98 lbs.  She started with a 44 Mag carbine.  When we got orders for Alaska she wanted something bigger so she decided to get a 30-06.  She got the Remington 7400 Semi-auto.  She had the stock cut down to her size, then handled that one just fine.  Recoil was not a problem.  A lot of men refuse to cut the stock down to fit a woman, saying if I cut it down then no one else can shoot it.  Well guys, with out cutting it down she can not shoot it.  The recoil will hurt because the stock won't fit properly, and she will loose interest fast.  As a shooting instructor for kids I hear the same story over and over again from their Moms.  "My husband insisted I shoot his hunting rifle, I saw stars after that thing went off.  If that is what it takes to go hunting I will never go".   I always take the kids out to the outdoor range at least once, then once to the skeet range, for them to shoot a hunting rifle and a shotgun.  The Moms come along.  I use rifles and shotguns with youth stocks, or that have been cut down for my wife.  When the Moms see their kids shooting these big guns and enjoying it, they come and ask me what is the differance between my guns and the ones their husbands shoot.  I show them the stocks, and how they fit the kids properly, and then I will show them a full size stock and they can see why they were knocked silly by hubbies rifle. 

Place the stock in the crook of the elbow.  If the trigger finger can not comfortably reach the trigger, the gun stock is too long for that person.  A person can shoot a gun with a too short stock better than they can shoot one with a too long stock.  During the winter when I have to wear extra heavy coats and vest I often use youths stocks on my rifles to compensate for the extra bulk in my clothing.  I'm 6'2" and had rather shoot with a youth stock than a full length one when wearing all those bulky clothes.  Thanks to my wife being an avid shooter, and her making sure Sky had properly fitting stocks for all his guns growing up, there is no shortage of youth stocks in our house.  She even got youth stocks for my Ruger .338s so Sky could shoot them if he wanted to.  And he did.

 

[jabey9210]

thanks sourdough I am definitely not above cutting the stock on it as it is her gun and she's really the only one that shoots it I would have done it earlier but wasn't sure what was the correct length and didn't want to cut it too short but your post answered that for me.  I will cut it down for sure so it fits her properly and see if that works.  I don't know if the .280 will be too much recoil for her or not.  I was just exploring options incase it is.  But most importantly I will make sure the gun fits her comfortably.  Her first two deer she also shot with my 30-06 and didn't mind it but then again she was shooting at something and not a piece of paper.  At the range she's shot my 30-06 and says the recoil hurts her probably due to it being a full size stock as you mentioned.  You just put the butt of the gun in the crook of the elbow and if she can't reach the trigger cut it down?  Sounds simple enough.  What's the best way to cut a laminate stock without hurting it.  Tape around where the cut will be? Or is there a better way? 

[jabey9210]

I just checked her gun on me and putting it in the crook of my elbow it fits me perfect.  Well me being 6' 1" and her being 5'0" it pretty much confirms that it is probably way too long for her so it looks like I'll be doin my first stock trimming.  I'll measure it on her then determine how much to cut.

[mechanic]

I bought a pawn shop 280 with a brake last year, and hunted it last season.  It does indeed reduce recoil, but I sat in a stand with my ear protection on.  It will come off before next season, and I will cut the muzzle back past the threads and recrown.  The 280 recoil ain't that bad.

Ben

[bikerbeans]

FYI,

The thumbhole stocks I have had for the handis do not have a nice 7/8" hole in the stock to accomodate a mercury recoil reducer or my favorite, a bunch of #4 shot.  You would have to drill a hole in the TH stock to install a mercury recoil reducer.

BB

[mtbugle]

The thumbhole stock adds weight of arm to the gun to help reduce recoil.  It might be worth  looking at linear compensators like the dragon head brake that black hole weaponry has or a lavang linear comp. Although I am unsure if are avail in 280 cal. size. Perhaps others hear could comment if recoil reduction on these. might be an option as they do not increase noise to shooter or bystanders as the extra loudness is sent down range.
Thanks Don.

[Sourdough]

jabey:  Before you cut the stock, is she going to be using iron sights or a scope?  If Irons you can get away with ordering a youth stock.  But if she will be using a scope, the youth stock will be too low and won't get her face up to the scope height, you will need to stick with the Monte Carlo style stock.

[jabey9210]

She will be using a scope for sure and her being a woman I doubt she would be willing to sacrifice the looks of the boyds stock  to go with a youth model so we will be cutting the thumbhole stock down to fit her.  Like I said I'm not sure if it will be too much recoil for her I'm just exploring options in case it is too much.  I'm not too worried about cutting the stock down to fit her because this is soley her gun ( which has been made clear to me on a regular basis) so since she likes the looks of the boyds thumbhole stock the best I really have no choice but to make it so it will fit her.  I will have to some research about the linear compensator's because I haven't had any experience with them.  And I could always load some lighter loads for her but then that kinda defeats the purpose of going with the .280 instead of the 7mm-08.  Plus she would probably be mad if I told her she is lugging around and dealing with 4 extra inches of barrel for nothing.

[oldsoldja]

I have two ultra comps ones a 270 and the other is a 30-06, I cant say they are louder because i havent shot them. Ill send you picks of those brakes, heres a couple pics of other breaks on handis i have. ones a 35 whelen, and the other porting is on a short 12 gauge that was made for a vip at h&r it came with a longer barrel 12 and it has papers to it authenticity. So they have done porting at least once besides the comps.

[Antietamgw]

My youngest son's first love was for a Rem 700 Mountain rifle in .280 when he was 11. I bought it but was worried about recoil. He was shooting a .257 Roberts bolt gun and .30-30 in a Contender carbine well. We loaded Nosler 120gr BT's and starting loads with IMR 4064 powder. He noticed a big change in recoil later when we loaded 140's with 4350. You will find 4064 will do well with lighter charges in these big cases. He sat down at the bench with these loads and shot some braggin groups - the targets still hang in the loading room. That's alot of years ago but the .280 remains his only centerfire rifle for ground hogs to black bear. Like others said, muzzle blast can cause a flinch as quick as recoil. Just watch some guys shooting AR15's with short barrels, cheap hearing protection and a metal roof overhead...  No doubt the stock design on Handi's isn't the best for controlling recoil but a good pad and a mild reload will sure tame it down and not be obnoxious to be around.

[Antietamgw]

thanks sourdough I am definitely not above cutting the stock on it as it is her gun and she's really the only one that shoots it. What's the best way to cut a laminate stock without hurting it.  Tape around where the cut will be? Or is there a better way?

I've always's used 2 layers of masking tape. Mark and cut through the tape. I use a plywood or crosscut blade. Have also used a bandsaw.  I've always used Decelerators but some say there are better aalternatives now. Good luck!

[jabey9210]

 I agree with the developed flinch caused by muzzle blast.  We will just have to try it and see what happens the bad part about it is like I said where we hunt a 400 yrd shot is not uncommon if you saw the steepness of the canyons and the amount of pines you would understand but that's where the good bulls and bucks like to hang out i guess.  And because of the sometimes long shots I prefer 168 gr bergers especially on elk and I definitely don't want her to develope a flinch because of the muzzle blast but I also don't want it to lack thump when the shot counts.  I was thinking today at work that shooting for fun and sighting in isn't a problem because we always shoot outside on private land where we have plates set up out to 1000yrds and we all wear hearing protection but when it comes to hunting it's not always convenient to wear hearing protection so that could definitely cause a problem.  Don't some company's make a muzzle protector so you can unscrew your break and screw on the blank that mainly just protects the threads.  That way I think it would work for the best of both worlds she can shoot comfortably with hearing protection while practicing and when it comes to hunting not have to worry about the loud boom because I doubt she will feel the recoil of a .280 if she's shooting at a big ol' buck or bull or bear or coyote or rock chuck or anything else that moves and is not protected.  Or at least that's been my experience with shooting at live targets.  If somebody knows which company makes the muzzle protectors I would appreciate it.  And also if they affect accuracy changing between the two.

[quickdtoo]

The H&R Ultracomp brakes can be removed and a thread protector used in place of it, EGW makes one for it, it's in the FAQs.

Tim