puzzled acuracy at distances.

[woods]

Ok I'm no new guy to shooting and handloading but I want someone to explain this one to me. I'm shooting a 270 with 150 gr barnes x bullets. This is the only time ever had this happen. I shot a 3 shot group of 7/8" at 100yrds ok thats about normal for these bullets. Now the kicker my max on my range is 250 yrds so I set up a target at that range and proceeded to shoot a 1" three shot group, I rechecked this with 2 more groups one at 250 another 1" group steped down to 100 and shot a 1" group. I have never had this happen on any rifle has anyone else. Usally a group will continue to open more as the distance gets greater but not this small amount. Can a bullet stabalize better after the distance becomes greater, these are the old xbullets of the 90's so I don't have a lot of them left to keep shooting. Anyone mind explaining this to me.

woods

[Graybeard]

No!

Had you had another target behind that 100 yard target at longer range so the bullets passed thru both the targets at longer ranges would have been larger.

Either you just concentrated on fundamentals more on the long shots or your rifle is a wee bit erratic tho not enough to worry about. One other plausible answer is the parallax setting on your scope. You might have a bit more at 100 yards than at 250 and that can affect group size also.

[woods]

Graybeard,

       I,m betting it is the parrelax on the scope, hadn't really thought of the scope as the culpret. I did adjust it when the range changed.  It's an early 90's 4x12 leupold. I bought the rifle from a local gun shop who's owner had it customized for his wife for plains hunting out west. The smith did a wonderfull job on the trigger, never felt a trigger so nice on a rem 700. He did alot of work on other items of the gun without changeing the outside apearance. The only way you can tell the difference from factory is the stock is cut down and a recoil pad was added to put it back to factory length. Thanks for the info.

woods

[Land_Owner]

Can a bullet stabilize better after the distance becomes greater[?]

Who cares?  With shooting like that at 250 yards REMEMBER EVERYTHING YOU DID and repeat it for now and always into the future.  That is a combination of components and accuracy in which you can be proud!

[keith44]

I've seen .45-70's loaded 525 gr bullets keyhole at 100 yards, and group well at 400 yards, but that's a slower, heavier, weight forward bullet.  I'd say Graybeard is most likely right on with the paralax causing this.  Just enjoy it!!

[mechanic]

Sounds like a good problem to have to me!

Ben

[Graybeard]

I've seen .45-70's loaded 525 gr bullets keyhole at 100 yards, and group well at 400 yards, but that's a slower, heavier, weight forward bullet.  I'd say Graybeard is most likely right on with the paralax causing this.  Just enjoy it!!

Had there been another target behind those keyholing bullets they would have still been tumbling or have spread so widely as to miss any size target. Bullets don't key hole them straighten up and fly right.

Both can happen with same gun/bullet combo if the bullet is on the ragged edge of stability but once it tumbles it will never do anything else.

The misunderstanding a lot of folks have is that it does take some distance for a bullet to fully stabilize in flight and until them the nose is wobbling to some tiny degree. This is fact not fiction. Once it stabilizes the nose stops wobbling and it travels smoothly until it hits something or drops velocity enough to again destabilize.

That DOES NOT however mean that any one given bullet will move closer to center or group can or ever will get smaller as it moves further from the shooter. That is fiction and old wive's tale not fact.

[keith44]

Graybread, there was a time when I would have agreed with you, but having seen the key hole go away with distance all I can say is load up a 45-70 with Postell bullets, and black powder (the real stuff) and try it.

[Ranch13]

I'm betting those keyholed at 100 yds were bad bullets. I've had alot of bpcr loads shoot well upclose and then go to pot at the 500 yd mark and beyond, but never the other way.

[Graybeard]

Graybread, there was a time when I would have agreed with you, but having seen the key hole go away with distance all I can say is load up a 45-70 with Postell bullets, and black powder (the real stuff) and try it.

Been there done that. Shot plenty of them on targets out to 400 yards. No bullet can tumble then right itself. Sorry but the laws of physics still apply even if the Constitution doesn't. I agree with the bad bullet comment. some might tumble but those that do aren't gonna recover and sail smoothly.

I've still got hundreds of those bullets cast up even tho I no longer have a .45-70. I send them along to a friend in PA when he runs out. It was my favorite bullet in my Browning BPCR.

[keith44]

I'll concede the point until I can post pictures that seem to show otherwise, and will have someone witness the shots and shoot through two targets.  (might take a while)

Keith

[Graybeard]

Understood I don't get to the range as much as I used to. If you can get the targets lined up and double check after each shot both targets I'm confident you'll see once a bullet goes sideways it doesn't come back.

I had a Taurus once (Yeah I've learned my Taurus lesson) that at 25 yards had two of six hit completely sideways showing the vertical profile of bullet on the paper, two would hit at a definite angle showing they were beginning to tumble and two that made beautiful round holes. Weird but it happened the same with each cylinder full for several attempts.

It went back to Taurus at their expense and was replaced eventually. Weird stuff happens.

[Ranch13]

Dollars to donuts if those bullets are tumbling when they smack the target at 100 yds you can hear them "helicoptering" out of the bore. As has been stated already once a bullet looses stability there's no way it's coming back, expecially if it's already keyholing.
 I've watched bullet loose stability at around 700 yds and by the time they get to 8 and 900 they're making such a loop going to the target they look like they're riding a spiral staircase. and there's few if any that will hit the target after loosing stability.
 Somebody is going to have to be pretty sharp at physics , geometry and algebra to set a target at 100 yds to the proper height to  match the trajectory of a 45-70 bullet to zero at 400 yds.

[Steve P]

A buddy of mine has a .280 Rem that he made off of a mauser action.  I have watched him shoot multiple 1" groups at 100 yards and then 1/2 to 3/4" groups at 200.  Don't know if it is the scope, they way he concentrates or what, but it is fact.  I would shoot against him all day long for size of group at 100.  At 200 he would kick my hiney every time.  Something happens........

Steve

[Larry Gibson]

Yes, sometimes bullets "go to sleep" at longer ranges and shoot as good as they do at closer ranges.  The bullets are not that well stabilized initially but since the rate of spin doesn't slow down nearly as much as velocity does at longer anges they become better stabilized.

However, most often this phenomenon is most often caused by paralax in the scope being better corrected at longer range.

Larry Gibson