Author Topic: Can I change a CAR length handguard to a full-length???? (Read 2923 times)

drdougrx · « **on:** April 05, 2011, 04:53:26 AM »

Hi All,

I have a Bushy CAR15 with a heavy barrel. It has CAR length handguards and a standard pinned front site. I'd like to remove all of this and add a full-length handguard with accessory rails and a front site block with a pic mount.

I'm assuming I need a new full-length gas tube as well, but is there anything else I'm missing?? And..never having done one, is the barrel drilled or otherwise marked/notched to attach the current front site and can I just attach the new block further down the barrel?

LanceR · « **Reply #1 on:** April 05, 2011, 01:48:57 PM »

I'm kind of unsure what the rig is that you have. If it is a carbine length with the gas block/front sight post at the front of the handguards the short answer is: "No".

You'd still have the gas port drilled into the bore to seal up and you'd have to drill a new gas port out at the front of the rifle length handguards.

Lance

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #2 on:** April 06, 2011, 02:38:36 AM »

There are gas blocks that can be used to replace the front sight /gas block combothat will fit under a free float hand guard . It may be possible to grind the sight part off and the remaining gas block may fit under a FF hand guard ( I have not mesured to see about fit but alot of guys grind it off when scopes are installed).. The standard hand guard would have to be changed to a free float type . If you do the work you may get away breaking even on the cost of a new upper. The delta ring etc would need to be changed to the hanger arrangement to attach the free float hand guard. A more enomical way might be to buy a mid length upper complete with the set up you would like and if keeping the upper you have is not important the sell it to get some of the expence of the new one back. The internal parts such as bolt and carrier may can be used but I would have a gunsmith check head space , with a complete upper this would ( should ) not be a problem.

NOTE - having an unused upper around will make one worry until a new lower is found to mate to it !

don't ask how I know this .

jmayton · « **Reply #3 on:** April 06, 2011, 06:38:06 AM »

The short answer is yes. The long answer is you will need to go to a free float handguard. To do that, you'll need a low-profile gas block that will fit under the handguard. You can't change the gas system length without changing barrels. With this setup there's no need to put a false gas block with a pic rail for the front sight, just put a flip-up front sight on the handguard (make sure it's made for handguard height, not gas block).

Here's a pic of mind pre free float that should be similar to what you have.

Now here's a pic with the free float rail on it. I kept the carbine length forend and factory front sight.

Now here's what it would look like if I decided to put a longer forend on it. The only problem is the front sight/gas block. You either have to replace it or cut it off so it fits under the forend. A dremel works wonders for this.

Unless you get a Daniel Defense Omega rail, you will need to remove your delta ring and barrel nut, but this isn't too bad. I did it, just buy the tool.

BTW, I used http://pimpmygun.doctornoob.com/index.php to make the mock-up. It's a great way to play around with different configurations.

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #4 on:** April 06, 2011, 07:38:35 AM »

I think the easy answer it to just get a 20" upper and hang what ever you want on it.
With the popularity of the M4 and the shorty uppers the 20" uppers are going kind of cheap.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #5 on:** April 06, 2011, 07:41:45 AM »

It seemed he wanted to stay 16 inch with more places to mount gear . That was why I suggested the mid length. With an alum free floated HG and rails on a 20 inch bbl the weight starts to mount.

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #6 on:** April 06, 2011, 07:51:55 AM »

Sorry Cheap and Lazy.
I never have liked the 16" uppers.
I think the sights are too close together.
the front ends are a little whippy.
and with a 20" barrel and a full stock my AR is less than 2" longer than my M1 Carbine. A rifle I think is tiny.
I can see the shorter upper if I had to get in and out of an APC or hummer on a regular basis.
But for 3 gun or target shooting I would rather have the extra velocity and the longer sight radius.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #7 on:** April 06, 2011, 08:04:44 AM »

Good points and I felt the same way. Then I built a 20 inch bbl 6.8 spc to deer hunt with. After carrying it for seven weeks deer hunting I think a nice 16 inch mid length upper would work better. With anything but iron sights the sight radius is not an issue . Mine wears a scope , a 3-9 and no other means of aiming. The full alum hand guard with 3 inch rails at 12,3,6,and 9 on the end nearest muzzle weighs a ton add the block to accomidate a sling and it get heavier.
I don't need a bayonet lug etc. If I do it over it will be a mid length upper , lighter hand guard , the scope would be 2-7 with a lighter ring set up , I would no go hog wild with rails and want a sling attachment stud on the hand guard not an extra block. I would also want a mini reflex sight mounted at 1 o-clock . I have shot what I suggest and in mid length gas system , scope etc the weight is good not whippy like a thin bbl 16 inch upper with open sights , I agree that is not so good for accuracy.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #8 on:** April 06, 2011, 08:06:59 AM »

I correct I have shot all but the reflex sight at 1 o clock . Don't wish to mislead . But with some luck will by hunting season

drdougrx · « **Reply #9 on:** April 06, 2011, 08:57:34 AM »

Hi All,

Just catching up....I think that the photo JMAYTON posted is close. I'm looking to build a pimpy range gun really...just bored. I have a bushy Natl Match with a Timney trigger and 4x12 Leupi for serious varmint/target work. I'm looking to play around with the various parts.

I have a heavy barrelled CAR 15A3 with a straight barrel, not the M4 config. I had a Colt LW SP1 with a pencil barrel and it was cool to look at but didn't shoot all that well which is why I went with a hvy barrel. I'm thing of an ACE butstock to remove my standard stock and then a RR full length quad rail with a RR fold down front site/gas clock combo and a smith vortex break to replace the A2. The current gun has a detach rear site with a trij insert front and back and a 2x7 leupi scope.

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #10 on:** April 06, 2011, 09:04:43 AM »

When I grow up I want to have a gun locker like you.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #11 on:** April 06, 2011, 09:09:19 AM »

sounds like a nice set up should be lots of fun.

do post pictures

jmayton · « **Reply #12 on:** April 06, 2011, 09:20:02 AM »

Quote from: drdougrx on April 06, 2011, 08:57:34 AM

a RR full length quad rail with a RR fold down front site/gas clock combo and a smith vortex break to replace the A2.

I like the RR rails (though they're a bit heavy). The fold down sight/gas block is superflous and would just be attached to the barrel out past the forend and you'll still need the lo-pro gas block under the forend. That's the reason for the flip-up on the forend.

And I like my 3-gun/hog gun whippy. . .and it'll still smack the gong at 600yds. But it's all preference and I love seeing everyone else's setups.

drdougrx · « **Reply #13 on:** April 06, 2011, 10:01:13 AM »

Mccccc...... just a hodgepodge a rusty ol'clunkers.....

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #14 on:** April 06, 2011, 10:27:50 AM »

You sound like me.
My friends say not only does he have one of everything, he has two.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #15 on:** April 06, 2011, 10:30:23 AM »

spare parts gun

drdougrx · « **Reply #16 on:** April 06, 2011, 11:14:48 AM »

Got a few spare parts guns too...and I AM down to two of everything thank-you!

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #17 on:** April 06, 2011, 11:27:41 AM »

man sounds like you are scraping the bottom of the barrel

drdougrx · « **Reply #18 on:** April 06, 2011, 11:57:03 AM »

Haven't been the same since I sold a dozen or more "safe queens."

But back on topic....I'm always confused about ARs. Do I buy whole new rifle, rebuild what I have or just buy an upper??? The question is what am I going to do with yet another AR...I mean...I bet I've owned 8 or 9 in the last 20 years. I haven't taken one to hunt with yet, mostly because they are all 223. I have a hankering for 458SOCOM or a 6.5 Grendel or an AR10 in some 308 clone....but...what to do (such problems huh?)

That's why I keep going back to a rebuild...I saw a photo of an AR that had a quad rail right up to the flash hider and an EOTEC....I though...now that's cool! I'd much prefer an AR with a 10 1/2 barrel and a collapseable stock...but...can't own one in this state.....poor me....

Fun to think and talk about .... thanks for join'n in!

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #19 on:** April 06, 2011, 12:51:28 PM »

Like any of the add on guns-
AR, 1911, 10/22.
I think the buy Vs. build is all what you want on the gun.
Personally If I have to change more than 20% of the gun I build. Especially when you are talking major componets like the Upper, barrels, or slides.
Funrniture, Sights, and other bolt on parts start out with a stock gu as close to what you want and then Bolt on the parts you want to change the gun to your tastes or needs.
I think Jamayton's picture is the best option, Extends the forend to what you want, allows you to keep the barrel in place and atach all kinds of gizmos to the rifle. Including iron sights to replace the front sight if you removed it or replaced it with a gas block. I like Iron sights on the AR- All battle rifles need Iron sights.
On the other side of the coin if you are looking to build up a hunting rifle, swaping out the barrel to a 6.5, 6.8, or 458 may be the easy way to go, since free floating the barrel will require you to remove the barrel. New bolt in the case of the 6.5 or the 6.8, Heck you can even go 6X45 or 7 TCU (223 necked up to either 6 or 7mm) for hunting deer and pigs.

drdougrx · « **Reply #20 on:** April 06, 2011, 05:24:17 PM »

Here they are...functionally boring!

jmayton · « **Reply #21 on:** April 07, 2011, 05:17:15 AM »

Nice looking rifles.

BTW, I told you wrong. Well, sort of. What you're talking about doing is called a dissipator. Kind of like this: http://www.bushmaster.com/catalog_xm15_BCWA3S16D.asp

It's got a rifle-length sight radius but a carbine length gas system, via a hidden gas block under the handguard. it's an interesting concept. I just don't think I'd have one, since a mid-length gas system with a full-length handguard would cycle more gently and be lighter.

drdougrx · « **Reply #22 on:** April 07, 2011, 06:55:05 AM »

Interesting...as a precaution, I gave my dremel tools to my wife and told her not to give them to me until I decide.....worst creation ever invented....I can just see me using the cutting wheel to "recountour" the front site/gas block to fit under a rifle length handguard......think I better just buy a complete upper!

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #23 on:** April 07, 2011, 08:34:22 AM »

That 10.5 bbl gun - handgun AR

maybe ?

drdougrx · « **Reply #24 on:** April 07, 2011, 11:41:53 AM »

Something like this!

http://www.bushmaster.com/catalog_xm15_BCWA2F11-5.asp

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #25 on:** April 07, 2011, 11:51:33 AM »

Quote from: drdougrx on April 07, 2011, 11:41:53 AM

Something like this!

http://www.bushmaster.com/catalog_xm15_BCWA2F11-5.asp

That would be nice along with a suppresor

We can own them in Va. along with full auto. But that opens the door to inspection etc.

jmayton · « **Reply #26 on:** April 07, 2011, 12:05:55 PM »

I'd love to have a shorty! We can own them here in Texas as well, just the tax stamp and all is good.

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #27 on:** April 07, 2011, 12:08:43 PM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on April 07, 2011, 11:51:33 AM

Quote from: drdougrx on April 07, 2011, 11:41:53 AM
Something like this!

http://www.bushmaster.com/catalog_xm15_BCWA2F11-5.asp

That would be nice along with a suppresor We can own them in Va. along with full auto. But that opens the door to inspection etc.

I think if you wanted to just go short barrel and NO full Auto. It is a $200 tax stamp if I remember. When I was in College the short entry shotguns were the rage and i remember a few guys in school getting the 14" 870 guns and the Ithaca 20ga 4 shot pistol.

drdougrx · « **Reply #28 on:** April 07, 2011, 04:12:14 PM »

Really....I'll look into it!

jmayton · « **Reply #29 on:** April 07, 2011, 05:09:54 PM »

a buddy just got a supressor for his RR 308. It sounds like a 22mag!