.454 for Bullseye

[stefano]

Hello,
Someone out there with experience in moderate accurate loads for the FA Model 83?
The Model 83 with it's 7,5inch barrel is so much accurate @ 25yards, that i would like to compete with it in bullseye matches, but with real light loads.
Ok, pick up another gun, then...would you say, but there is not better gun to me than the FA Model 83, except maybe th Model 97.
One moderate but superbly accurate load at that distance is a 300gr Speer or Sierra over 22 grains of N°9 with winchester brass & primer, still a little hefty for bullseye however.
Do not want to shoot 45 colt in it however.
Could the Hornady HAP .451 for 45acp also be used here for reloading? or is it to light.
Kindly asking...

[cwlongshot]

Recoil is extremely prohibitive during the timed and rapid portions of the match.

Look at trail boss and lite bullets. Say 200 or less grains. Get under 1000 fps to if you want to be at all competitive.
 If your just having fun go for what ever.
But know rapid fire and the ten seconds will be tough with allot of recoil. Remember in rapid fire rim Fire, a compensated 22SHORT is the norm!! They don't recoil nearly at all. I never loose the target in the scope firing one!

[stefano]

Thanks for the advice cwlongshot

strangely our federation timed portion for rapid fire is 20 seconds!
Whatever, 10 seconds for 5 shots, i tried it, was hell even with the pleasant 9mm (sig x-six) or .38(M14 Masterpiece)
Ok, then i will try those Hornady HAPs in 200 or 230 gr, but what would be the best powder to start with?
N320, Bullseye, Win231, Titegroup...
I think i will settle with the 230 grains HAP and the N320 (or titegroup) with which i always had extremely good results in the L.B.PII. 6 incher.

OR is there anybody who will share his pet load?

I will report on the accuracy with the HAP bullets if someone is interested...
Steve
 

[freedom475]

I have spent a lot of time attempting to get the load that you are after in my 45Colt and big cased 475L...Velocity variation has been the real challenge.. Even Titegroup, with its advertising, is still very position sensitive. And after 4lbs of the stuff, I can say that it should not be used in a large case. ( I have seen pretty extensive flame cutting from this fast/highpressure powder) It is kind of neat though, since you can load a 475L down to 500fps with it

Best powders I have found to keep velocities low(er), and consistant have been, in this order...

TrailBoss..., ( I hate this stuff, but it really seems to be one of the best things going)
Ramshot BlackHorn209 ....(don't laugh, I know guys that have discovered this powder and are now using case-lots in their 500 S&W's)
4227.... (maybe more power than you are looking for, but I have loaded this stuff way down. At around 1100fps the  velocities stayed within 4fps ES
Bludot. is another good one for velocity ES

And don't forget good old Unique

[doghawg]

 stephano....In .454 I like 10.5 gr. of 231 under 250 gr. jacketed for a light load in both of my 83's. Velocity is around 1100 fps with a 7 1/2 barrel. That shoots to the same point of impact as my 1300 fps 300 gr. cast bullet deer hunting load. Probably still a little heavy for bullseye shooting though.

freedom475....With the .475 a 400 gr. RCBS cast bullet over 10 gr. of 231 will clock around 1025 fps from a 7 1/2" and gives outstanding accuracy for me.

 One downside of 231 in these big cases is the potential for a double charge. I keep a little mini maglite on the loading bench and double check the loading tray before seating bullets.

[cwlongshot]

Freedom, excellent suggestions! I agree.

I resisted trail boss myself. But once I tried it I do like what it offered. Unique has been THE powder for the long colt for generations. I'm certain a good load could be found for the cassul.

CW

[freedom475]

freedom475....With the .475 a 400 gr. RCBS cast bullet over 10 gr. of 231 will clock around 1025 fps from a 7 1/2" and gives outstanding accuracy for me.

 

If you are shooting a FA.. How are you shooting the RCBS?? I used to have the mould and it shot great..but I either had to crimp over the band or trim my brass...(I trimmed about 100 brand new hornady brass and then decided that it was not going to make me happy ) I ordered a couple LBT's and a bunch more brass and now have things working the way they should be. I really like the 420gr LFN. I also have the 400grWFN (but it don't see much actions since the LFN shoots so well.

[doghawg]

If you are shooting a FA.. How are you shooting the RCBS?? I used to have the mould and it shot great..but I either had to crimp over the band or trim my brass...
[/quote]

 My .475 is a BFR and the RCBS bullet fits. Before I got a .476 sizer die I loaded some of these (.477") over 14 gr. of HS6 and crimped over the front driving band because they wouldn't chamber otherwise. Accuracy was outstanding but I don't much care for crimping over the front either.

Edit to add....Yep, a loaded .475 with the 400 RCBS crimped in the crimp groove measures 1.810" in length.

[bobthenailer]

Ive had excellent results in the 454 casull  loaded in 454 cases with tightgroup, for bullets in the 260 to 275  & 300 gr weight  in the 950 to 1100 fps range   ! i havent tried lower powder charges  than 8.0 gr . of TG.
Perhaps the perfect load would be a 45 cal full wadcutter like the saeco # 453 a 225 gr wc and BE or TG powder.

[stefano]

Hello,

Wadcutter, could be a good idea, even though i never got  better results than in .38special.

Whatever, i tried the VV N320 with the 230gr Hornady HAP .451 (for ACP) and it worked pretty well, indeed.
Had 15 shots each with 8.0, 8.5, 9.0 grains of N320 for a start, bullet was seated as low as possible, the crimp being placed just on (slightly above) the bullets shoulder, so to have less space left in the big .454 case.
Yes it worked fine, bullets looked a bit odd, but accuracy was very good with the 9.0 load. I had the impression that moving up in powder, the accuracy got  better. I have to try with 9.5 and 10.0 next time.
Recoil was still very pleasant with the 9.0 load, tamed by the heavy FA Model 83. The load with 8.0 was ok, but it felt like one or the other rounds banged differently; could that be the position of the powder in the case?
Praise to the FA Model 83, it really is a formidable strong and accurate revolver. Crowd went up when i shot  5 consecutives shots into almost one ragged hole of 4 with 1 flyer just touching, it was impressive. Some of them had never seen a FA and were impressed by the non-moving cylinder and the strong clicks when cocking, sounds familiar?

Oh, sorry i just talk(write) too much...

A little drawback came when trying the 20sec. speed shooting were, as already stated in the thread, you will have to train hard in order to recover form every shot, adding the looong single action pull!
Especially with the wooden grips, the rubber grips would certainly give an advantage, here.

One final important note: the shots were way too high and i have tu purchase a higher front sight if i would want to compete with it.
But lets be honest, the accuracy and pleasure to handle and shoot this big revolver makes up for everything else.
Stuffed with full power loads it's a very though hunting and silhouette competition gun, loaded with light loads it's a formidable plinking gun and i could bet that it would just do fine in bullseye competition.

But that you know, already.

So, a last little question to you FA connaisseurs:
How do you replace the firing pin on the older models as there is nothing to unscrew or open as to do so?
Thanks for the hint...

[cwlongshot]

Perhaps the perfect load would be a 45 cal full wadcutter like the saeco # 453 a 225 gr wc and BE or TG powder.

The full wad cutter is a excellent idea as it seats flush with the case mouth. GREATLY reducing the case capacity. Normally a bad thing. But with light target loads being the aim, its a very good thing!

CW

[bobthenailer]

the wadcutter bullet will let you use less powder to = less recoil and clean cutting full caliber holes in the target.
 I also have never gotten better accuracy with wadcutters than most other bullet designes. I have WC for 38s/357 and 44s/44 mag
  If your firing pin is broken ! you will have to send it back to FA for repair,  they do a retrofit to make them replacable for around $80.00.
dont forget shipping & insurance it will run about $180.00 when your done.
 If your the ORIGONAL owner of a premire grade ? it will be free