Author Topic: Feral Hog Myth Article (Read 2779 times)

markc · « **on:** April 06, 2011, 03:34:50 AM »

Interesting article

http://agrilife.org/today/2011/03/24/busting-feral-hog-myths/

Land_Owner · « **Reply #1 on:** April 07, 2011, 12:35:25 PM »

Quote

Highest ranking among the myths are estimates of the actual number of feral hogs in Texas...A common number that has been bantered about for years is 1 to 4 million. But there was just no data to support this estimate.

That is, there wasn’t until Dr. Roel Lopez...used geographic information system procedures to turn the guesstimates into reliable estimates... and ... came up with a population estimate that could range from a low of 1.9 million to a high of 3.4 million.

Exaggerated claims of feral hog population-growth rates are a related myth...on average, a sow is about 13 months old when she has her first litter, and ... mature sows have 1.5 litters per year. This means there is a significant population growth rate...

Quotation above paraphrased by LO to cut to the chase, which is, not much debunked about supposed "myths". Old Doc there sure "nailed it". Right square between the "mythical" 1 and 4 million marks.

As for "exaggerated population growth", ask any farmer in hog ravaged lands that is attempting to "hunter harvest" only and you will note the same one-sided story...the pigs are winning that war!

Much to do about nothing in this article...and markc...keep 'um coming!

drdougrx · « **Reply #2 on:** April 07, 2011, 04:14:50 PM »

Thanks Mark! Good read.

mechanic · « **Reply #3 on:** April 07, 2011, 06:07:31 PM »

A couple of statements don't reconcile in my mind. Am I reading this wrong?

We estimated the population growth of feral hogs in Texas averages between 18 percent to 20 percent annually,” Lopez said. “This means that it would take almost five years for a population to double in size if left unchecked.”

So it takes 5 years for them to double with a 20% increase...so.....

“In order to hold a population stable with no growth, 60 to 70 percent of a feral hog population would have to be removed annually.”

Seems to contradict, or am I looking at this wrong?

Ben

cabledad · « **Reply #4 on:** April 07, 2011, 06:39:44 PM »

Double in 5 years is a real reason to be scared. I can get out to where I hunt in prime time and not hear a shot from a big rifle i.e. hog hunter.I personally think in an area like Grayson County Texas they are multiplying at a fast rate. I am going to do my best to kill another hog this weekend.Chuck

cabledad · « **Reply #5 on:** April 09, 2011, 06:27:20 PM »

Went out tonight and nothing was moving,no coyotes,the dogs on the places around that tiny pasture I hunt weren't barking.Maybe I will have one in the trap in the morning.O well I will try again tomorrow.Chuck

Land_Owner · « **Reply #6 on:** April 10, 2011, 03:44:34 AM »

Quote from: mechanic on April 07, 2011, 06:07:31 PM

A couple of statements don't reconcile in my mind. Am I reading this wrong?

We estimated the population growth of feral hogs in Texas averages between 18 percent to 20 percent annually,” Lopez said. “This means that it would take almost five years for a population to double in size if left unchecked.”

So it takes 5 years for them to double with a 20% increase...so.....

“In order to hold a population stable with no growth, 60 to 70 percent of a feral hog population would have to be removed annually.”

Seems to contradict, or am I looking at this wrong?

Ben

At 20% compounded, and accounting for some death rate by natural causes as well as the yearlings not breeding until 13 months, it is quite feasible to double the population will take about 5 years.

However, if hunters are averaging 24% reduction annually, there should be a Zero Sum Gain in the hog population.

Something stinks in Denmark...or there is more to the assumptions than is reported.

markc · « **Reply #7 on:** April 16, 2011, 02:14:24 PM »

After reading the story, I think there is a certain amount of SWAG method being used in the study. Scientific Wild A** Guessing. I have never heard the stat that a feral hog begins breeding at 13 months of age. I have always understood them to begin breeding much younger, but perhaps that was because they were trapped, captive hogs. Not sure. ??
Regardless, they pose a real problem all over Texas and from what I have read 50% of the U.S.
I did not see any at the ranch this past week, but the damage from their rooting around the pinion pines aggravates me.

B-dog · « **Reply #8 on:** April 24, 2011, 07:10:24 PM »

Here in New Zealand they (not exactly sure who they are) say each year there are 100,000 wild pigs harvested by an estimated 25,000 hunters- (this number is from hunting club membership) both my brother and myself catch (using dogs) 30 plus animals a year! which makes the 100,000 pigs number look some what Conservative. As I doubt that on average each hunter only catches just 4 pigs annually. With the current amount of hunting pressure pig numbers here remain fairly stable, but if things were to swing in the pigs favour they would soon get out of hand.

markc · « **Reply #9 on:** April 25, 2011, 03:33:53 AM »

http://texaswildhoghunting.com/

With the discussions regarding hog hunting ranches that cost $, This particular ranch is less than 1 mile from my sisters place. I especially find this statement on their home page interesting, "Our Hog Hunting Success Is Based On Our Occurrence of Native Wild Hogs. "

Since I know that they purchase their hogs from trappers, and their neighbors at times get tired of the gunfire. The hogs are casterated, fattened up in pens, and then released into enclosures. They are not free ranging their entire ranch. No problem, I have no complaint, but it seems a bit false when compared to the claims. But the prices are not bad if someone wants to hunt hogs with a very high success rate.

Sourdough · « **Reply #10 on:** May 16, 2011, 09:15:44 AM »

I read an article comparing Feral and Domestic swine reproduction. Found some interesting info. Male to female birth rates in feral hogs were 119 Males to 100 female. With 8.7 piglets per litter. Gestation period is 114 days. Once a sow reaches breeding age of 7 to 8 months, she can be responsible for 1000 plus feral swine in a five year period.

OK now granted some are not going to live for five years. But remember 50% are female and with a reproductive rate like that I don't think it will take five years to double the herd size.

BBF · « **Reply #11 on:** May 16, 2011, 10:21:45 AM »

That may be the answer to famine when it comes.

hillbill · « **Reply #12 on:** May 16, 2011, 02:33:33 PM »

Quote from: scatterbrain on May 16, 2011, 10:21:45 AM

That may be the answer to famine when it comes.

possibly, but id imagine if famine was to sweep the US, a 4 legged animal of any kind in the wild will be mighty hard to find.i know if i had hogs during bad times, id eat all i could hold and shoot and sell or barter the rest to people who couldnt hunt.enuf guys doin that would wipe them out in no time.prob simlir to what market gunning did in the early 1900's and during the depression.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #13 on:** May 16, 2011, 02:58:27 PM »

i have been offering my hog removal services on craigs list FOR FREE

with out any takers

i did have one member here request my hog removal services

but the only pigs we have seen were at the bar-b-q restaraunt

i think if the land owner liability laws were relaxed
and a few of game managment rules changed
this ''problem'' could be an asset
funny how am asset can be made into a problem.....that some needs to fix for us

if i had hogs on my property i would have a problem
''WHAT GUN TO CHOOSE TO SHOOT IT WITH!!''

Dee · « **Reply #14 on:** May 16, 2011, 03:12:20 PM »

Quote from: cabledad on April 07, 2011, 06:39:44 PM

Double in 5 years is a real reason to be scared. I can get out to where I hunt in prime time and not hear a shot from a big rifle i.e. hog hunter.I personally think in an area like Grayson County Texas they are multiplying at a fast rate. I am going to do my best to kill another hog this weekend.Chuck

Well Chuck, I am about 28 miles from you in Grayson Co. We are gettin over-run here, and not many hunters this time of the year. I have a friend that has an old Piper that flies about 32MPH, and we're kickin it around about huntin from the air. He is already spottin them, and the damage but, you know how the foliage is this time of the year, so their hard to see, with the wheat up, and almost ready, and the corn gettin up.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #15 on:** May 16, 2011, 05:11:43 PM »

Quote from: Dee on May 16, 2011, 03:12:20 PM

Quote from: cabledad on April 07, 2011, 06:39:44 PM
Double in 5 years is a real reason to be scared. I can get out to where I hunt in prime time and not hear a shot from a big rifle i.e. hog hunter.I personally think in an area like Grayson County Texas they are multiplying at a fast rate. I am going to do my best to kill another hog this weekend.Chuck

Well Chuck, I am about 28 miles from you in Grayson Co. We are gettin over-run here, and not many hunters this time of the year. I have a friend that has an old Piper that flies about 32MPH, and we're kickin it around about huntin from the air. He is already spottin them, and the damage but, you know how the foliage is this time of the year, so their hard to see, with the wheat up, and almost ready, and the corn gettin up.

so DEE.....you going to see if any of the locals are in need of our services
i bet more than a few of us would car pool out there
have you got camper hookups at you place?

i would but you dinner if you put on some hogs

Dee · « **Reply #16 on:** May 16, 2011, 05:50:00 PM »

45-70.gov, me and copperheads don't get along very well so this time of the year I stay close to the road. When we get a frost we might get somethin up.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #17 on:** May 16, 2011, 06:00:17 PM »

never been to texas
maybe i will find an excuse to go there

Sourdough · « **Reply #18 on:** May 16, 2011, 08:30:51 PM »

Dee, the Piper Cub is a good platform to shoot from. If you are serious about shooting them from the air, get with me. I can put you in touch with people that do that with wolves. It's not as easy as some would believe. First of all, if the pig is running the same way you are, you do not lead him. In actuality you are flying faster then the pig is running. You shoot behind the pig, the shot will angle forward and catch up with the pig. But like I said I have a good friend that hunts from a piper cub and he shoots Wolves, not much different in size. PM me and I will put you in touch with Al. Rog

Dee · « **Reply #19 on:** May 17, 2011, 02:13:13 AM »

I may just do that Sourdough. I figure an M4 with a reddot should be just about right. That's what most use down here from the helicopters.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #20 on:** May 17, 2011, 04:29:20 AM »

just haveing a spotter in the air seems like it would be good

Reverend Recoil · « **Reply #21 on:** May 17, 2011, 05:20:54 AM »

At 14.9% compounded interest, your money will double in two years. That math is simple. The subjective part is in determining survival, preditor, breeding, food supply, and hunting factors. If someone could feed wild hog factors into a baseball statistical modeling system we might get an interesting answer. Then again, it might tell us that we have 1 to 4 million more free agents than we need to get us to October. Hmmmmm........

Reverend Recoil · « **Reply #22 on:** May 17, 2011, 05:24:11 AM »

CORRECTION

At 14.9% compounded interest, your money will double in FIVE years, not two years.

cpileri · « **Reply #23 on:** May 17, 2011, 06:34:26 AM »

I used an online calculator, based on an example population of 100 pigs, having as the article says 5.6 in a litter, growth of 18% compounded once yearly; gives doubling in 3.32-3.45 years; depending on wether we add the 5.6 piglets at the start or the end of the period.

In any case, the point is well made that the population is doing far better than the economy.

C-

45-70.gov · « **Reply #24 on:** May 17, 2011, 07:58:07 AM »

either way thats about 16 times in a generation [20 years]
32 X in 25 years
64 X in 30

something will give

i think i need to buy stock in a bar-B-Q sauce company

Land_Owner · « **Reply #25 on:** May 18, 2011, 08:34:37 AM »

Quote from: 45-70.gov on May 17, 2011, 07:58:07 AM

i think i need to buy stock in a bar-B-Q sauce company

May I highly recommend Sorry Boys BBQ sauces, marinades, and rubs at http://www.sorryboysbbq.com ? Chip Faul is a personal friend, a Dentist in his day job (my Dentist), or was, but is stepping back to do the National BBQ circuit full time, after a decade or two of award winning seasons.

Any way we look at it, those pigs are here, are here with a vengeance, and there is little this side of a Nuclear Holocaust that is going to affect them significantly if only hunters are used to keep their numbers in check. When they "go nocturnal" or seem to have "left the building" on the lands you have permission to hunt you can bet your hunting dogs that some farmer less tolerant of guns and hunters has them real bad on his place.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #26 on:** May 18, 2011, 08:59:29 AM »

then the farmer ought to learn to like us!!!

i will keep an eye out for the sauce
if they don't have it here i will get some next time i am there

myronman3 · « **Reply #27 on:** June 09, 2011, 07:10:27 PM »

here is my take on it....
there was an area within driving distance from me. a few years back, someone released some hogs down there. someone wrote a newspaper article about the "threat" and how the farmer's land was being ruined. deciding that hog hunting is just what i felt like doing, i went down for a weekend to scout.
at this point, i will cut to the chase and tell you that the way people in that town acted the second you mentioned hogs, was like you were a rapist. screw those "poor farmers" and land owners. it is not much more than a bunch of people whining and crying and i hope the pigs down there do eat their crops and destroy their land.
now i cant say that is the situation in texas. but, if i had a problem with them on my property, i damn sure would be offering up to guys on here to come on down and shoot them off. you just dont see that.....but you do see plenty of people offering to let you come down and hunt them for a fee. that tells me about all i need to know. sadly, i would really love to hunt wild hogs. i have got to the point where i think 90% of the places crying about having hog problems have an alterior motive....whether that be crop damage payments, or people paying for access to hunt hogs...i dont know.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #28 on:** June 09, 2011, 07:23:02 PM »

yep just another thing for the government to save us from.....and raise taxes

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/jun/01/forest-service-and-blm-plan-exterminate-countys-wi/

here is a quote from california
"The cost is variable," she said. "But it won’t be inexpensive. It will be in the hundreds of thousands of dollars."

thats tax money
tax money also planted some of those hogs

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #29 on:** June 10, 2011, 04:49:42 AM »

It would seen that hogs might move also. A piece of real etate can only hold so many . As food sources drop maybe they move into other areas concentrating at times and spreading out at others like deer are known to do.
Take 10 hogs say only 5 are female if only one has a litter of 4 survive the population is 40% larger if none other pigs die . And we all know that each could have 6-8 or more with little death why 5 years ? unless some are expanding range . It would seem trying to estimate in a small area would be useless.