Cannon from HMS London

[Bob Smith]

news story and video, including pictures of nice bronze cannon from HMS London, lost in the Thames in the 1660s
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-12980240

[dan610324]

good that the police got them

[Soot]

The police dragging a 300 year old ship's bell down the side walk was a bit disturbing.

[Zulu]

The police dragging a 300 year old ship's bell down the side walk was a bit disturbing.

I saw that and thought the same thing.
Zulu

[GGaskill]

Should arrest them for destroying artifacts, too.

[Cannoneer]

I think that the bronze ship's bell is being pulled on a dolly (hidden under the bell), or something that has rollers on it; it's either that, or those British bobbies have been eating their Wheaties every day, because their moving it without all that much effort.

[Double D]

I have mixed feelings about this...its one thing to preserve the history to learn about it, its quite another to just allow it to lay on the seabed and rot.

The academic community is  very protective of this material, but the aren't very sharing.  They decided what is interesting, they decide when it will be recovered, they decide who gets to study it, and then they lock it away away in warehouses and decide who if anyone else gets to see it or what they get to see.

On the other hand the commercialized recovery of this material is little more than raping and pillaging of our history with the only concern being how much money can be made and no concern about what can be learned.

As long as the Academic community and the Antiquities communities don't work together we are going to see our history destroyed in this manner.  There has be a middle gound.
 

[dan610324]

here in sweden I never had any such problems , every time I needed some help from a museum they had always done their best to help me .
me and my son had total access to the army museums varehouse for a full day , and the same friendly help from the historical museum when I took the photos of mörkö .

so I guess that if you have a good reason they will help you , but they must also do their part to protect the collections for future generations . so its understandable if they may be a little restrective .
largest problem for the museums is probably that they dont have money enough to show all their stuff at the same time , but thats an political issue . guess that there aint a museum in the world that wouldnt say yes if they would get the posibility to have 5-10 times more space .

even if there are ships at the bottom of the ocean they most often have an legal owner , most often a countries navy or an insurance company .
many items thats been "rescued" by private people will be destroyed anyway , a good example of that was the bronze cannons that was restored by that "expert" in the youtube video shown here a few weeks ago .

I have seen it sooooo many times when I have been buying black oak .
someone find a healthy and good piece of black oak thats 400 years old , then they take it home and destroy it by not drying it in a proper way .
it end up as some useless crap thats not even good enough to use as firewood .

so I understand when you say that you have mixed feelings about it , its the same for me

[rampa room artillery]

I guess, i never understood how some one can own a wreck...   and yet if you find a bout afoat in international waters/ sometimes just in the chesapeake bay, that has been abbandond, then its yours for the taking. but as soon as it sinks it is off limits.  i have recovered small boats out of the marsh and taken them to the police and they told me its mine if it was abbandond.  I dont want to see wrecks destoryed, but why dont we just inventory everything that everyoen finds, study it, take pictures and then return it to who found it?   if more info needs to be taken off ot it, then it can always be tracked down again.   

        rick bryan

[dan610324]

if you have a ship that goes to the bottom of the ocean and an insurance company pay you for that ship and cargo they have been the leagal owner of it .
whats so difficult to understand in that ??

[Cat Whisperer]

And there is a whole branch of law - maritime law - that is steeped in tradition and history.  A bit different than our land-lubber law.

[KABAR2]

As usual I think the Law made more of this than was actually envolved,
most of the salvage these fellows did was from 19th & 20th century wrecks,
if the HMS London is a known and protected site then they should have known
better! If they made the discovery then they should have gone through the process
needed to claim the wreck right now it looks like they are in the wrong.
The video censationalized showing large quanities of artifacts which were mostly
from the late 19th through mid 20th Centuries.

I know of a case of a cannon that came from the original Dutch battery in Manhatten
it was sold by a construction worker.... I know a museum now owns it.... most of the
parties envolved are dead only the antique gun dealer is still alive, but he is up there in years
once he is gone I will let the museum know what they have and it's historical signifagance
as this is an impotant artifact that needs to be displayed in it's proper context.

I have mixed feelings that governments lay claim to artifacts that have been lost to time,
I understand the historical signifigance  of these items but the people who are using their
time and knowlege to find and preserve them if done right should be able to have a say
in it.

[Cannoneer]

According to these documents it would seem that British governmental authorities have an easy time declaring any wreck they choose as off limits to private parties. This phrase: "on account of the historical, archaeological or artistic importance of the vessel, or of any objects contained or formerly contained in it which may be lying on the sea bed in or near the wreck," would give them a broad brush with which to paint a "No Trespassing" sign.

Clicking on footnote number one in this document will open the "Protection of Wrecks Act 1973."
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2008/2775/introduction/made

The National Archives
http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/+/http://www.culture.gov.uk/reference_library/media_releases/5565.aspx