Author Topic: Krupp Barbette Contest  (Read 1620 times)

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Offline Div Arty

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Krupp Barbette Contest
« on: April 07, 2011, 11:58:57 AM »
 
Well gentleman, who is up for a contest?
Since everyone has enjoyed the masterpiece that the Seacoast boys have gifted us with, wouldn't want to put it to rest at night without a proper bed. 
The rules and dates would have to be decided by CW & DD, but here are a few suggestions.
The construction would have to be photographed by 5 pictures.  Plus one for the final presentation.
The winner would be voted on by any member of GBO, but not the participants.
The winning picture would be assured a place on the 2011 calendar.
If any of the Krupp owners cannot join in the build, they may enter a photo of the howitzer in a defensive pose.  Therefore not crowding the calendar with only one gun.   
Suggestions?       
                                   Ron

Offline Double D

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Re: Krupp Barbette Contest
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2011, 12:11:42 PM »
Not in favor of giving  up a reserved spot on the Calendar.  I will consider the input of others.

I don't think it is right to give preference just because someone bought a certain cannon and others didn't.  If you reserved a month for SCA, do we then have to reserve another for Mike Brooks-USA and one for  Dom and one for Ed Cannon's.   That is something to consider.

 

Offline GGaskill

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Re: Krupp Barbette Contest
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2011, 12:23:41 PM »
Don't care one way or t'other about reserving a space on the calendar but I was interested in finding a picture of the whole carriage.  That "lower receiver" has to go on my list along with the several AR lowers.
GG
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Offline gulfcoastblackpowder

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Re: Krupp Barbette Contest
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2011, 12:59:08 PM »
If you've kept an eye on the Krupp thread, you'll know I'm the biggest proponent of having a barbette carriage for the Krupp on this board. 

I lean toward agreeing with Doug that dedicating a calendar place for the winner is probably not the best idea, in fairness to others (though I think that if it's the favorite among ~25+ owners/fans of the Krupp models, it's probably a shoe-in to win a calendar spot anyway, should the owner enter it.).

I think this is a good idea, though it may make it less likely that M&T will consider producing one in the future.  I'm still trying to find suitable daylight time to work on my handgonne project, so I personally wouldn't be able to start this project until that is done.  I'm guessing you want this contest so you can try to win it.  Please go ahead and be the first entrant.  I'd love to see what you come up with! :)

Offline Double D

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Re: Krupp Barbette Contest
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2011, 01:14:10 PM »
Don't get me wrong, I absolutely think you guys  you guys should take pictures of your Krupp cannons and enter them in the contest...there should be at least one good Krupp picture to make the calendar...

Offline gulfcoastblackpowder

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Re: Krupp Barbette Contest
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2011, 02:34:33 PM »
I don't think anyone got you wrong about that.  I have a feeling you may be among those that enter a picture of one.  ;)

The more pictures the better (though I'm sure you noticed on my recent post I only posted a representative picture and a link to the albums to be more bandwidth friendly than some of my earlier photo postings)!

Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: Krupp Barbette Contest
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2011, 02:54:21 PM »
I've been doing 9-12 hrs a day 6-7 days a week.

ASIDE from that, let me encourage the design/building of the Krupp Barbette carriage.

 ;)
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Offline GGaskill

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Re: Krupp Barbette Contest
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2011, 08:00:25 PM »


Scaling the picture and proportioning to the howitzer as made leads me to believe that the carriage I-beam rails should be about 1 7/8" high by 20 5/8" long with 1" wide flanges.  It's not clear whether the beam is rolled or composite (flanges riveted via angles to the web); I'm guessing composite.  I'm also thinking three transoms, one at each end and one in the middle.  And railroad rail on top for the upper carriage to roll on.  Must be some wheels underneath, too.  Or maybe they are those wheels visible at the outside rear of the upper, although those look too high for rollers.
GG
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Offline Double D

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Re: Krupp Barbette Contest
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2011, 04:38:25 AM »
I hate to be the burster of bubbles, but this  model  Krupp does not have the barbette carriage

Offline KABAR2

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Re: Krupp Barbette Contest
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2011, 07:35:03 AM »
Well I game for a competition as far as building a proper fortress mount
for the Krupp it should be interesting to see what people come up with. I'm don't think a
space on the calendar should be reserved but it is likely that at least one of these may be
included on their own merits
Mr president I do not cling to either my gun or my Bible.... my gun is holstered on my side so I may carry my Bible and quote from it!

Sed tamen sal petrae LURO VOPO CAN UTRIET sulphuris; et sic facies tonituum et coruscationem si scias artficium

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Krupp Barbette Contest
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2011, 08:17:24 AM »
     First of all, this Barbette Carriage contest for the Krupp howitzer is interesting, but should be extended to all types of artillery which used any type of barbette carriage, to make it fair to all members who choose to enter.  We will not be, as all our time until next Christmas is already spoken for.

     The calendar contest should absolutely NOT favor one cannon over any other.  It should be perfectly fair to all participants, and if I know these moderators at all, it will be exactly that!  Nuff said.

     I admit to being perplexed at Double D's statement above, maybe he will tell us what he means by it if the opportunity to do so presents itself.  The following is an accumulation of facts about seacoast artillery carriages, their terminology and uses that we have picked up here and there in the last 8 years.

      There is such a thing known as a Barbette Platform.  It is used primarily for positioning siege and even field guns so that they may fire over a fort wall or parapet.  This type of platform is basically a thick, highly stacked, box of timbers or earth or, more rarely, masonry, upon which to place a cannon.  The Seacoast Barbette Carriage elevates the tube sufficiently to fire over a parapet without the use of high, Barbette Platforms.

      For 50 years from 1840 to 1890 almost all of the world’s heavy seacoast guns were placed upon 3 basic types of carriages.  These were the lower profile Casemate Carriage designed to be placed within fortress walls in chambers called Casemates, the Front-Pintle Barbette Carriage and the Center-Pintle Barbette Carriage which were of a higher profile, designed to allow the gun to fire over walls or parapets.  These carriages were made of wood or iron.  All these types of carriages were similar in design having an upper carriage that recoiled on a two rail or three rail Chassis.  It was the Chassis which pivoted left and right to aim the gun.

     The Front-Pintle Barbette Carriage pivoted at the front of the chassis. This allowed the gun to fire through embrasures  with just the gun’s muzzle outside the protective earthwork or masonry wall, allowing the gun and crew more protection from enemy fire.  The big advantage of the Center-Pintle Barbette Carriage was that it allowed a full 360 degree traverse, giving the gun or battery much more opportunity to engage enemy forces wherever they were.  The heaviest seacoast guns in the American inventory during those years, the 15 and 20 Inch Rodmans were ALL mounted on Barbette Carriages of both types.

     The Krupp 14” seacoast guns of the 1860s and 70s were mounted on Seacoast, Iron, Front-Pintle, Barbette Carriages, using a high-profile Chassis and Upper Carriage to allow the howitzer to fire over walls or parapets.  Water Battery guns the world over typically used Barbette Carriages which afforded guns and gun crews maximum protection from the maelstrom of shells hurled by naval fleets.

Regards,

Tracy and Mike


     
Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: Krupp Barbette Contest
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2011, 12:24:10 PM »
     ...
     The calendar contest should absolutely NOT favor one cannon over any other.  It should be perfectly fair to all participants, and if I know these moderators at all, it will be exactly that!  Nuff said.
...
Regards,
Tracy and Mike   

I agree, but what I'd proposed was in ADDITION to the annual calendar contest; to produce a Krupp Kalendar.
Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
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Offline Double D

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Re: Krupp Barbette Contest
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2011, 12:59:46 PM »
Simple these FC Model Krupp Seacoast guns do not have trucks or ways and are intended to be fired from a platform.  They are designed to be rapidly picked up and carried away if the neighbor calls the cops....geez don't you guys know nuttin!

Offline GGaskill

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Re: Krupp Barbette Contest
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2011, 03:51:01 PM »
 ;D ;D
GG
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Offline gulfcoastblackpowder

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Re: Krupp Barbette Contest
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2011, 07:11:23 PM »
I was thinking about that too, Double D.  The bottom of these models don't allow for a completely accurate reproduction of the chassis structure shown in the picture, where it would straddle and ride on the rail system on top.  I think some interesting design modifications may come out of this contest. 

Given that there are no trunnion caps on the gun, one could still devise any number of possible designs for a chassis that would allow the cannon itself to be concealed from any undesireable parties.  You may have to come back for the chassis and carriage, but there's no law against having them in your yard, is there? ;)

Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: Krupp Barbette Contest
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2011, 02:56:47 AM »
There may be no law NOW, but every where I've gone, I've influenced laws to be changed!   :o   ;D
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Offline dominick

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Re: Krupp Barbette Contest
« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2011, 09:20:44 AM »
I've been giving the idea of building a carriage for my Krupp some serious consideration.  I feel to do this properly, it would have to be meticulously built with detail and then plated black so it does not take away from Seacoast's masterful work.  As far as a guide rail for centering the carriage, the side plates protrude below the bottom plate about an 1/8" and this allows for small guide strips on the Barbette and guide off the inside of the side plates.  I thought I'd give a complete one a try.  I printed a 8-1/2" x 11" picture of the carriage and made a micro scale Krupp, one to one ratio with the photo.  It's a .265" bore and fires the steel Daisy slingshot BB's.  This one was a challenge to build.  The railing and crane are 1/8" diameter rod.  It's tricky to weld that tiny stuff.  Dom





Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Krupp Barbette Contest
« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2011, 10:01:31 AM »
     Dominick,   we have pretty high expectations for your work.  You have just exceeded them.  Love that Barbette Carriage!  Wonderful, simply wonderful!

Mike & Tracy

P.S. that 'Baby Krupp' ain't bad either!  I'm guessing the carriage is 10" long.  Am I close?
Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline Zulu

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Re: Krupp Barbette Contest
« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2011, 10:04:31 AM »
Dom,
You are yet another "Master"!!
I like it!
Zulu
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Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: Krupp Barbette Contest
« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2011, 10:30:35 AM »
WOW.  To have a SET of Krupps at various scales!   :o
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Offline dan610324

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Re: Krupp Barbette Contest
« Reply #20 on: April 09, 2011, 10:41:52 AM »
who will make it in full size ??   ;D
Dan Pettersson
a swedish cannon maniac
interested in early bronze guns

better safe than sorry

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Re: Krupp Barbette Contest
« Reply #21 on: April 09, 2011, 01:58:08 PM »
who will make it in full size ??   ;D

Rampa Room Artillery, of course!   ;D
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Offline Double D

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Re: Krupp Barbette Contest
« Reply #22 on: April 09, 2011, 02:05:25 PM »
who will make it in full size ??   ;D

Rampa Room Artillery, of course!   ;D

Now Tim, don't be going getting him all fired up!!!!

Offline Zulu

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Re: Krupp Barbette Contest
« Reply #23 on: April 09, 2011, 02:07:06 PM »
who will make it in full size ??   ;D

Rampa Room Artillery, of course!   ;D

Now Tim, don't be going getting him all fired up!!!!

I'm thinking about making one in wood. :o
Zulu
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Offline rampa room artillery

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Re: Krupp Barbette Contest
« Reply #24 on: April 09, 2011, 02:58:57 PM »
well, i dont have a lathe big enough but i do know where some 30inch  I beams are.   I am thinking beer can caliber tho.


rick bryan 

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Re: Krupp Barbette Contest
« Reply #25 on: April 09, 2011, 03:22:52 PM »
well, i dont have a lathe big enough but i do know where some 30inch  I beams are.   I am thinking beer can caliber tho.


rick bryan

Let me guess - the FOSTER oil-can size beer cans?

 :P ;D
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Offline rampa room artillery

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Re: Krupp Barbette Contest
« Reply #26 on: April 09, 2011, 03:33:39 PM »
well maybe ,,

 i just got a 2.5 inch  bit in but i just tore it up,  i cant go from 2.in to 2.5  its to big of a jump,  so now i have got to order a 2.25 bit, and get this one sharpened

  ohwell,
 

Offline Soot

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Re: Krupp Barbette Contest
« Reply #27 on: April 09, 2011, 03:52:27 PM »
If you don't need a ladder to reach the tool post, you have a small lathe.

Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: Krupp Barbette Contest
« Reply #28 on: April 09, 2011, 03:55:08 PM »
I'll bite - what is it they are making?
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Offline Soot

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Re: Krupp Barbette Contest
« Reply #29 on: April 09, 2011, 04:02:22 PM »
I think it's a steam turbine for a ship's engine.
This would be called a large tailstock.
It appears to say Armstrong-Whitworth on it, so must be a gun lathe (maybe).