Author Topic: Krupp Cheroot Cane  (Read 3487 times)

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Offline dominick

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Krupp Cheroot Cane
« on: April 10, 2011, 09:35:01 AM »
Here's a photo of a Krupp Cheroot cane I made.  The bore is 36 caliber and the length 5".  It's machined from solid 1.250" diameter 1018.  The staff is 7/8" oak. The price for these are 75 dollars plus shipping.  If anyone is interested in purchasing one, please let me know.  Thanks,  Dom


Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: Krupp Cheroot Cane
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2011, 10:10:49 AM »
That is just PURE COOL!

 :D :D :D :D
Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
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Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Krupp Cheroot Cane
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2011, 01:28:14 PM »
     CW is right.  That is COOL!  I wonder if it shoots?

T&M
Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline gulfcoastblackpowder

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Re: Krupp Cheroot Cane
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2011, 02:05:27 PM »
It appears to have a vent.  Neato!  Makes a nice looking cane in it's own right!

Offline Soot

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Re: Krupp Cheroot Cane
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2011, 02:14:40 PM »
It's a cane, a cannon and a hammer!
Add a sword to it and it will probably have to be registered with the ATF.
Nice work.

Offline gulfcoastblackpowder

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Re: Krupp Cheroot Cane
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2011, 02:21:45 PM »
It's a cane, a cannon and a hammer!
Add a sword to it and it will probably have to be registered with the ATF.
Nice work.
Hmmm...That could be done. ;D

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Krupp Cheroot Cane
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2011, 02:23:27 PM »
     Guys, I just can't stand it any more.  I really don't know if it will shoot, but we have plans to do a thorough test session on a pre-production gun that Dom sent to us a few days ago.  We will post the results.  Below is a 'Riverboat Gambling" scene that Mike set up today.

Tracy

Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline gulfcoastblackpowder

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Re: Krupp Cheroot Cane
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2011, 02:46:52 PM »
Nice! 

Is that a cannoneer's daggar?  If so, some better pictures of it would be appreciated!

Offline BoomLover

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Re: Krupp Cheroot Cane
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2011, 02:50:54 PM »
All of Dom's Cheroot Canes are pretty cool....liked the Gambler's scene set-up, too.....Boomlover
"Beware the Enemy With-in, for these are perilous times! Those who promise to protect and defend our Constitution, but do neither, should be evicted from public office in disgrace!

Offline dominick

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Re: Krupp Cheroot Cane
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2011, 08:35:09 AM »
Thanks for the compliments,  Yes,  It does shoot.  The 36 caliber is actually a .375" bore that will take a .360" round ball.  The vent has apowder tray so it can ignited with a cigarette or slow match.

I really like the riverboat gambling scene.  Don't know much about playing poker but I take it that's a hand worth defending.  Also, I don't know about that other guy bringing a knife to a gun fight.   ;D  ;D

Soot,  I'll keep the hammer in mind if stopped by the police while traveling with it.  It may be convincing!  If we add the sword though, that story goes out the window.  A Medieval Cheroot cane?  Now that's a thought.

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Krupp Cheroot Cane
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2011, 08:54:29 AM »
    We are heading out to the high plains range in about 5 minutes with Dom's Krupp Cheroot Cane Gun.  Test results tonight.

Mike
Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Krupp Cheroot Cane
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2011, 07:57:06 AM »
     When the Cheroot Cane gun made by Dominick Carpenter arrived at our shop, Mike and I examined it closely and found it was designed with both safety and a unique appearance.  Being shaped in the Krupp style,  we were quite familiar with the look and wondered if it would shoot as well as it looks.  We decided 3 days ago to do a full Guns and Ammo style new product test on Dom’s newest release in his Cheroot Cane gun series.  Five hours of testing yesterday proved this 1860s styled cane gun to shoot every bit as well as it looks.

      Fully machined from 1018 steel, this Krupp style Cheroot Cane gun comes with a metallic grey painted finish with a coat of clear lacquer to give it a pleasant gloss finish.  Complete with a sturdy oak dowel lower section and a rubber tread cap, it will be an appropriate accessory for a Riverboat Cruise or an evening out on the town.

      Our testing is explained in the photo captions.

Regards from the testing staff, Mike, Tracy and Gary.


This shows the complete set-up for testing Dom’s Cheroot Cane gun.  The cane gun is clamped in a Seacoast Artillery machined rubber jaw holder in a Ransom Rest, the laser bore sighting device is in place, the Crony chronograph is set at 4 feet from the muzzle with special clear tape over the screens to protect against black powder grains and smoke residue and the target is at 10 feet, exactly.  The range was chosen after considering the width of the largest poker table used during the mid 19th Century.




Another view of the Cheroot Cane gun and test equipment.





Boresighting complete with the red laser dot in the 10X.





Mike pours a charge of FFFg BP from a small powder flask into the single-charge, adjustable measure set for 20 grains.  Seacoast Artillery recommends that for your SAFETY, you never charge your Cheroot Cane gun or any other cannon directly from a powder flask.





Mike charges the cane gun with 20 grains BP from the single-charge adjustable measure immediately AFTER placing the fuse in the vent.





Mike rams the .36 cal. Lead round ball down the .375” bore.  It is loosely patched with worn, (thin), bed-sheet material with just enough compression to keep the ball against the powder.





We measured the vent at 1/16”, so you can either fire your cane gun with a pinch of powder in the small countersink at the top of the vent or you can do as we did and use a short length of 1.4mm, (.055” dia.), Visco Cross-Match, GN1010, Green, Chinese made, high quality, stiff, fuse for cross-matching 1/4-inch time fuse. Burns at abut 1.9 seconds per inch. This is a bit expensive, but we like the small mini and micro and nano cannons with their tiny vents, so we bought some from       www.skylighter.com     about two years ago.  The current price is $19.95 per 50 foot roll.





This is a short Movie clip of the senior geezer on the testing staff firing the Krupp Cane gun authentically with a lit Cheroot.  This is a first shot and Mike zeroed in to show the hole in the target.  Placement with 20 grains of powder was right on!




We hope to post more later on group sizes and velocities and pine board penetration, maybe this evening. 
Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline Zulu

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Re: Krupp Cheroot Cane
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2011, 08:43:24 AM »
"Get out of the way Gary"
 ;D :D ;D :D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Zulu
Zulu's website
www.jmelledge.com

Offline Soot

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Re: Krupp Cheroot Cane
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2011, 11:55:48 AM »
Ummm...How does it work as a cane?

Offline dan610324

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Re: Krupp Cheroot Cane
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2011, 12:04:15 PM »
yeah I got the proper age to use a walking stick
Dan Pettersson
a swedish cannon maniac
interested in early bronze guns

better safe than sorry

Offline Soot

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Re: Krupp Cheroot Cane
« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2011, 12:06:04 PM »
I was expecting pics of old guys navigating different types of terrain with it.
I'm a bit disappointed.

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Krupp Cheroot Cane
« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2011, 02:54:59 PM »
                                    Testing Dom's Krupp-style Cheroot Cane gun, Part 2


     Soot,   I just don't know what to say except that the head on this cane can also be used to knock sleepy members gently upside the head, if necessary, to wake them sufficiently so that they can pay attention to the material presented.   ;) ;) ;)

     
"Get out of the way Gary"
 ;D :D ;D :D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Zulu

     As soon as I heard that, I knew one of Gary's friends would be after him!

Mike and Tracy



With 20 grains of FFFg BP we got 283, 292 and 262 feet per second as velocity readings.



A 3 shot 1.69” group is very good for a small cannon with a short, smoothbore, barrel.




A load of 30 grains of FFFg BP was tried next.  We considered this maximum and the Cheroot Cane Krupp performed admirably with this load which exceeds the 1851 Navy Colt 1oad of 25 grains.  The chronograph readings were 642, 648 and 643 fps.   A 1.22” group is excellent accuracy for a small, smoothbore, cannon like this.




A short Movie of testing the cane gun’s “across the card table accuracy” at a 3 long paces, (10 full feet).  First shot.

http://www.fototime.com/9FFCBC4CAD6C97F/conv.wmv


A three shot group across the card table with the 30 grain loads yielding 1.51”.  Placement is still very acceptable for this little cannon.





A Slo-mo Movie at 300 fps of the penetration of a playing card, a ¾”, pine board and the cardboard backing at 10 feet.  No sound is available with our slo-mo movies.  Should have done it at 600 fps or 1,200 fps.  Live and learn.

http://www.fototime.com/BE881D73FBFDAA8/conv.wmv
Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline dominick

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Re: Krupp Cheroot Cane
« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2011, 03:09:33 PM »
Hey guys,  Thanks for the test!  I didn't think it was going to be quite that accurate.  Good info there and I enjoyed the video.  Dom

Offline chefjeff

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Re: Krupp Cheroot Cane
« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2011, 03:23:39 PM »
OK I want one.chefjeff149@yahoo.com

Offline Double D

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Re: Krupp Cheroot Cane
« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2011, 04:15:32 PM »
Okay so  Jeff contact Sponsor Dom via PM or his website and order one....

Offline RocklockI

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Re: Krupp Cheroot Cane
« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2011, 04:33:12 PM »
Zulu ,I was ...going to show where the bullet would have struck a standing man . Mike had already zoomed in ......to show the hole on target so I was going to stand in . But apparently Mike didnt care " get out of ......"

As for the heart placement with the ace card ........... I guess they were being ..."back shot" by Mike .

I said something to him about it but he had his hearing turned off ...I guess . Just a "Duh Winning" expression on his face .

Gary


"I've seen too much not to stay in touch , With a world full of love and luck, I got a big suspicion 'bout ammunition I never forget to duck" J.B.

Offline Winger Ed.

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Re: Krupp Cheroot Cane
« Reply #21 on: April 12, 2011, 09:47:54 PM »
That's way cool.
Your set up looks pretty level, and being bore sighted dead center,,,,,
I wonder why it groups a few inches high?  I'd have thought you'd get a tiny bit of drop.
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Offline Double D

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Re: Krupp Cheroot Cane
« Reply #22 on: April 13, 2011, 02:19:22 AM »
That's way cool.
Your set up looks pretty level, and being bore sighted dead center,,,,,
I wonder why it groups a few inches high?  I'd have thought you'd get a tiny bit of drop.

Recoil starts before the ball leaves the bore. barrel is not level when the ball leaves the muzzle.

Offline dominick

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Re: Krupp Cheroot Cane
« Reply #23 on: April 13, 2011, 07:37:19 AM »
The fulcrum point is several inches below the bore centerline and this could be causing rapid muzzle climb.

Offline gulfcoastblackpowder

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Re: Krupp Cheroot Cane
« Reply #24 on: April 13, 2011, 12:54:13 PM »
There are ways of reducing the effect of recoil with this design.  Hold it like a staff, while securing the end of the cane in the arch of your foot.  Grip high on the cane's wood, reducing the fulcrum point.  This is essentially holding it like a monopod (in fact, it's exactly like #2 described here: http://www.outdooreyes.com/photo5.php3), and will give you and the gun more stability, reducing the amount of recoil.  Interestingly, having a little longer cane actually increases stability with this technique.

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Krupp Cheroot Cane
« Reply #25 on: April 14, 2011, 05:49:31 AM »
Nice! 

Is that a cannoneer's daggar?  If so, some better pictures of it would be appreciated! 

     It's a 14th century dagger Mike bought from Atlanta Cutlery a long time ago.  I mentioned to him how nice it would be to have a 'Great Helm' Knight's helmet to go with it, but he didn't bite.

     In the last little movie clip posted, I fired the round that went through the 3/4" pine board, Offhand and didn't notice any particular recoil that would bother anybody.  While it's true that these fairly mild recoiling loads did impact the target a bit higher than the 10X, the real eye opener comes when you switch to a heavier bullet with about the same powder load.  We had a saying in the old gunsmith school about pistols and revolvers:  "heavy bullets print high".  They do this because they stay in the barrel longer than a light bullet would and by the time they emerge from the muzzle, the axis of the tube is pointed higher.

Tracy

I can't believe nobody noticed this.  Come on guys, Mike worked hard on this display; he has imagination and knows a lot about naval and wild-west history too!




Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline BoomLover

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Re: Krupp Cheroot Cane
« Reply #26 on: April 14, 2011, 06:23:58 AM »
Aces and 8's...."Dead Man's Hand"
"Beware the Enemy With-in, for these are perilous times! Those who promise to protect and defend our Constitution, but do neither, should be evicted from public office in disgrace!

Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: Krupp Cheroot Cane
« Reply #27 on: April 14, 2011, 03:22:14 PM »
I should have noticed, didn't have a minute - drove up and back (Tues afternoon-Thursday noon) from Virginia to Torrington and did a day's work there.  (Saw briefly in passing an interesting cannon in LItchfield - might have been a Rodman.)  Headed to Kutztown (near Allentown) early in the am, will see DD - Saturday AM.

Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
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Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Krupp Cheroot Cane
« Reply #28 on: April 14, 2011, 06:00:26 PM »
  Boomlover,  Thank You!  You're the man!  Does Wild Bill Hickok ring a bell with anybody?  Shot dead, in the back, in the Black Hills town of Deadwood in the Dakota Territory on August 2, 1876 while playing poker and while holding the infamous two pair, "Dead Man's Hand", of aces and eights.  This happened about one month after General George Custer and the 7th Cavalry attacked way too many Indians in Montana. 

     (Saw briefly in passing an interesting cannon in LItchfield - might have been a Rodman.)  Headed to Kutztown (near Allentown) early in the am, will see DD - Saturday AM. 

     Tim,   That's great that you and DD can get together on Saturday.  I still have a few relatives in Connecticut, so I know where all the seacoast guns are.  That one in Litchfield is an  8" Columbiad M 1844, just like the one Mike and I saw fire at Fort Delaware in the Delaware River in the small, but great State of Delaware.  Skip, does that description meet with your approval?  See the pic below.

Tracy and Mike


Firing from the North-Western Bastion of Fort Delaware, this 8" Columbiad  M 1844, registry no. 46 was cast in 1855 at Cyrus Alger and Company Foundry in South Boston, Mass.  Tim, the one you saw in Litchfield, CT was cast much earlier in 1845 at West Point Foundry in Cold spring, N.Y. and has a really low registry no. of 21.  Some of this information is from the National List of Surviving Civil War Artillery.

Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline Parrott-Cannon

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Re: Krupp Cheroot Cane
« Reply #29 on: April 16, 2011, 09:18:13 AM »
What is the bore length?
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