TAXES.....The rich pay less....

[DDZ]

I just wish the left wing progressives would stop pointing at other people's money and coveting it,  and just stop spending.

If you just took all the money that every corporation and wealthy person had and liquidate it, give it to the government, it would not put a dent in even the interest we owe, and then congress would triple spending because they got a little dab of money, it would all be gone within 6 months time, and unemployment would skyrocket to probably 90 percent to boot.  Ya...good plan...same plan we been using to get us in this mess. 

Just stop spending...same thing we all do when times get tough.  This plan of grabbing other people's money won't work, it never did, it never will. Stop the spending. That will work.  It's the only thing that ever works for anyone, governments have the same math we do.

Isn't that it in a nut shell?

You never hear the left progressives complain about all the wasteful spending and the debt that just keeps piling up. They just keep whining about the rich and corporations not paying enough to fund all their socialist ideas, that are dragging this country down in a hole deep enough, that we will never be able to get out of. Its just one more socialist program on top of another, without ever getting rid of the ones that don't work.

 This country is bankrupt, yet there are people that think taxing those evil rich guys will help. Unbelievable!     

[mcwoodduck]

Tax law is very complicated and done so on purpose.
The congress is the one that sets the tax code.
Congress sets the code also to do a little social and economic planning.
Social planning as making the interest on your home loan tax deductable so you want to buy a house- Was what killed the inner cities of the country.
Economic planning - Tax breaks if you buy or sell a certain product.  It may not be economicly sound to make, buy or sell the item with out the tax incentive or tax break.  Again causing all kinds of ecomonic havoc when those incentives are with drawn.
Now as far as taxes go, Business think of them as a cost and build them into the price of the product.  Done mostly to help some industry as either a favor to someone and makes them millions or is done to promote some idea - Light ulbs come to mind and GE is now making Billions on CFL bulbs.
The rich will easily pay $10,000 to a tax lawyer to save them 30K or more on taxes using the same code that congress makes that sometimes over laps, conflicts, and allows for such loopholes.  So much so that there is a minimum tax you have to pay even if you follow their rules and have no income.
If you childishly ask the rich to pay more, we will go further into a resession.  The spare $ that the rich get to keep is what they use to make more $ and usually ends up in a couple people getting hired.  In reverse if you take more from the rich more people will get fired as there is no money to pay them.
As Cabin 4 pointed out we have a spending problem- If you steall 100% of all the profits from all the fortune 500 companies and steal all the income from the 397 billion aires we have in the country and 50% of all of their assests it will not cover the amount Obama has spent since he came into office.  Not to mention who are you going to sell those assest too?

[Junior1942]

deleted

[Cabin4]

If more tax cuts for rich people are what this country needs now, look at what they did during GWB's 8 years in office--put this country on the verge of bankruptcy.  Don't try to say it's Obama's fault! He inherited it!  But, hey, some of you tax cutters might think another Great Depression is a good thing, so let's cut, cut, cut.  We can start by increasing the oil depletion allowance from 15% to the original 29.5%.  Another thing we could do is double price supports for farmers. 

We could cut, cut, cut spending, too.  Let's make the max total life-time Social Security benefit no more than what a person paid into Social Security.  Let's end Social Security except for those in the system now.  Let's eliminate Medicare.  Let's close every military base in the world except for two in the USA, one on both coasts.  Cut military spending by 95%.  We could cut all the above, and in only a couple of years rich people wouldn't have to pay taxes at all!  The middle class could easily pay enough taxes to run the country!

No one is excusing the failures under the Bush administration. You are correct, Obama did not inherit a $14 trillion dollar debt. He inherited a $9.8 trillion dollar debt. Which means he created a $4.2 trillion dollar addition to the problem.

You are correct, Obama did not inherit a $1.7 trillion dollar annual budget deficit. He did inherit a $400 billion dollar annual budget deficit which means he created a $1.3 trillion dollar annual addition to the annual budget deficit.

Obama created both of these additions to the annual budget deficit and overall debt. By the time Obama leaves office at the end of his 2nd term, he will have transferred a $24trillion dollar problem on  to the next administration if nothing is done now to stop the bleeding. Obama is at fault for his actions just as Bush and Clinton are at fault for their additions to the problem.

Why is it that Liberals always want to blame Bush for the problems they have created. Obama is the leader. These are his budget issues to the deal with. We get nothing but obfuscation from Obama and the rest of the left.

[Junior1942]

>Why is it that Liberals always want to blame Bush for the problems they have created. Obama is the leader. These are his budget issues to the deal with. We get nothing but obfuscation from Obama and the rest of the left.

Why is it that right wingers ignore the financial collapse about to happen when Bush left office?  He almost tax-cut this country into oblivion.

[mcwoodduck]

If more tax cuts for rich people are what this country needs now, look at what they did during GWB's 8 years in office--put this country on the verge of bankruptcy.  Don't try to say it's Obama's fault! He inherited it!  But, hey, some of you tax cutters might think another Great Depression is a good thing, so let's cut, cut, cut.  We can start by increasing the oil depletion allowance from 15% to the original 29.5%.  Another thing we could do is double price supports for farmers. 

We could cut, cut, cut spending, too.  Let's make the max total life-time Social Security benefit no more than what a person paid into Social Security.  Let's end Social Security except for those in the system now.  Let's eliminate Medicare.  Let's close every military base in the world except for two in the USA, one on both coasts.  Cut military spending by 95%.  We could cut all the above, and in only a couple of years rich people wouldn't have to pay taxes at all!  The middle class could easily pay enough taxes to run the country!

No one is excusing the failures under the Bush administration. You are correct, Obama did not inherit a $14 trillion dollar debt. He inherited a $9.8 trillion dollar debt. Which means he created a $4.2 trillion dollar addition to the problem.

You are correct, Obama did not inherit a $1.7 trillion dollar annual budget deficit. He did inherit a $400 billion dollar annual budget deficit which means he created a $1.3 trillion dollar annual addition to the annual budget deficit.

Obama created both of these additions to the annual budget deficit and overall debt. By the time Obama leaves office at the end of his 2nd term, he will have transferred a $24trillion dollar problem on  to the next administration if nothing is done now to stop the bleeding. Obama is at fault for his actions just as Bush and Clinton are at fault for their additions to the problem.

Why is it that Liberals always want to blame Bush for the problems they have created. Obama is the leader. These are his budget issues to the deal with. We get nothing but obfuscation from Obama and the rest of the left.

Wiile I remember getting a Bush Tax cut for about two weeks when MY state raised all fees and increased my taxes to more than the Federal tax cut.  At the same time many other states also did this.  Tax cuts only work when there are over all cuts and not stealing Peter to Pay paul.

[mcwoodduck]

>Why is it that Liberals always want to blame Bush for the problems they have created. Obama is the leader. These are his budget issues to the deal with. We get nothing but obfuscation from Obama and the rest of the left.

Why is it that right wingers ignore the financial collapse about to happen when Bush left office?  He almost tax-cut this country into oblivion.

The left has not new ideas and blaming is what they have left.  Socialism doesn't work and all if Europe is running from it and some how the left keeps saying we need to be more like old europe, you know the before they were broke socialist states.
The conservitives (you may call us right wingers) know if you get government out of the business, lower taxes and relax the regulations that are strangeling our economy we are going to be fine, but as long as you have not only the legislative branch attacking our economy, but the Exutive branch with the Energy Department and the EPA attacking any and all factories in the country.  What still has me baffeled is whay do Unions support the Democrats, when the Democrats are the ones that want to close all factories, stop mining, stop refinning, and transportation all things that employ union workers? 

[Cabin4]

>Why is it that Liberals always want to blame Bush for the problems they have created. Obama is the leader. These are his budget issues to the deal with. We get nothing but obfuscation from Obama and the rest of the left.

Why is it that right wingers ignore the financial collapse about to happen when Bush left office?  He almost tax-cut this country into oblivion.

Now there you are wrong. We do not have a taxing problem, this country has a spending problem. Our financial disaster was caused by a collapse in the home mortgage market. There was too much deregulation of home mortgages and loans given to people who never should have gotten them.

It has nothing to do with taxing. We tax business and people more than enough. We just spend to darn much. Rasing taxes will hurt our already fragile economy and job market.

[saddlebum]

What still has me baffeled is whay do Unions support the Democrats, when the Democrats are the ones that want to close all factories, stop mining, stop refinning, and transportation all things that employ union workers? 

I have been pondering that one alot myself lately. They are just as unemployed as everyone else. They're protesting, angry at the cutbacks and layoffs created by the Dems social and green policies and reckless spending. And they want to beat up the people who are trying to stop the snowballing, out of control government.
All the while they are unemployed and paying their union dues from an unemployment check. That is if they haven't run out of benefits by now. And their dues help prop up the ones that lead to their distress in the first place through contributions and support for Dems..................go figure!

[mcwoodduck]

What still has me baffeled is whay do Unions support the Democrats, when the Democrats are the ones that want to close all factories, stop mining, stop refinning, and transportation all things that employ union workers? 

I have been pondering that one alot myself lately. They are just as unemployed as everyone else. They're protesting, angry at the cutbacks and layoffs created by the Dems social and green policies and reckless spending. And they want to beat up the people who are trying to stop the snowballing, out of control government.
All the while they are unemployed and paying their union dues from an unemployment check. That is if they haven't run out of benefits by now. And their dues help prop up the ones that lead to their distress in the first place through contributions and support for Dems..................go figure!

I am not a union member but It is still a good question to ask at a union meeting?
i ask the pipe fitters I deal with all the time.

[Junior1942]

Was it a Democrat president who said, "Outsourcing jobs is good for America"? 

mcwoodduck, that's a really good question to ask at a union meeting.  You ought to ask it.

[saddlebum]

I can't even try to talk about it with the union guys I know. As a matter of fact, we don't hardly talk at all anymore. We used to be friends and get along great on the job. But ever since the '08 election, not so much. Some of them have been raving maniacs ever since. Jumping up and down, waving their arms in the air and yelling at me. It's creepy to watch.........well, a little humorous too!

[saddlebum]

Was it a Democrat president who said, "Outsourcing jobs is good for America"? 

mcwoodduck, that's a really good question to ask at a union meeting.  You ought to ask it.

After watching the videos of the Chrysler workers in Detroit on their lunch break getting stoned and slamming down beers, I was glad my pickup was made in Mexico!   

Although I don't agree with outsourcing jobs.
Unfortunatly, high taxes, over regulation and outragous union contracts are the major reason for jobs going overseas.   

[mcwoodduck]

Was it a Democrat president who said, "Outsourcing jobs is good for America"? 

mcwoodduck, that's a really good question to ask at a union meeting.  You ought to ask it.

Outsourcing jobs: The PRESIDENT Said That?
April 3, 2004
Kerry ad puts words in Bush's mouth that Bush never uttered.
Summary
A Kerry ad has Bush saying that sending jobs overseas "makes sense." But Bush didn't say that.
Source http://www.factcheck.org/article168.html

So I guess John Kerry's Campaign said it- Democrat!  And thank god not a President.
Invite me to a Union Meeting and I will raise the question.  I am sure I will either be told to sit down, or shut up or will be bullied into leaving or will have some help in leaving.  The truth hurts and the Union leadership is out for themselves and not the union members, the UPS strike of 95-96 proved that.  UPS had over 1 BILLION in the pension fund for their drivers and it was growing.  The Strike was over the managment of that pension fund.  When UPS was in charg of it it grew 100%.  Now that the teamsters are in charge of it they take 20% of all profits off the top as opperating and managment fees?  Same people run the fund only now the drives get 80% of the fund and that cuts down on their retirement to feed the Union bosses.  The drivers were hurt in it took about 10 years to break even on the time they were out of work with the 50 cent an hour raise they got, UPS cut the number of drivers for a while due to the loss in business the strike had in people finding other means to ship goods and packages.  This is when I learned that the Union leadership was for the Union Leadership and not for the union member.
But it seems to me that the Union would have more power and money with more dues paying guys on lots of jobs mining, drilling, manufacturing, trucking, building, demolishing old sites, plumbing, carpentry, and on and on, if were not cow towing to a bunch of green wack jobs that think we should all be riding bicycles eating what we grow and some how make $ on the internet that is solar powered.  Buying those pannels and bikes from China.  Instead of doing what has made this country great.  Rebuilding our infrastructure, rebuilding our ability to power our selves, making goods that set the standard around the world and building new plants to meet the needs and wants of the world.  Instead with Rules and regulations, high taxes the Democrats that tout them selves as fro the working man have put him out of work and made the proud union men the first on the line for government hand outs and union halls are empty not because of work being done but because those same union guys are out slinging Burgers at McDonalds to feed the family.

[jlwilliams]

  Yes, the rich get a much better deal in life on many levels.  Moral of the story, it's better to be rich.

[Cabin4]

It can help, but it ain't everything.

[45-70.gov]

  Yes, the rich get a much better deal in life on many levels.  Moral of the story, it's better to be rich.

i raised my kids with the desire to be rich

i  told them  robin hood was a theif

to  learn from the rich .....
 not feel they deserve some of what they haven't EARNED

I WAS IN THECARPENTERS UNION  FOR 12 YEARS
until i found how much they support the democrats
they democrats  abd the unions  BOTH promote  a culture of depentance
with  the unions  and  the welfare folks and  poor people.....you have a lot of voters
get  more  poor  and more on welfare and union members that can get a job in the free market

wow  that wold make  them  unstoppable

[DDZ]

I can't even try to talk about it with the union guys I know. As a matter of fact, we don't hardly talk at all anymore. We used to be friends and get along great on the job. But ever since the '08 election, not so much. Some of them have been raving maniacs ever since. Jumping up and down, waving their arms in the air and yelling at me. It's creepy to watch.........well, a little humorous too!

Saddlebum, this is what I get when I try to talk politics with some of the knuckleheads at work. There are at least four guys I don't even bother talking to about their beloved Democrats. Instead of a sane conversation, I get what you experience. They just totally fly off the handle. I guess they really don't have an argument that begins to make any sense so they act like a lunatic.  All I hear is "I vote for the working man" (ie Democrats)  Its amazing what a complete job the unions have done brainwashing some of its members. Its to the point that they make so little sense, that it is laughable.

[us920669]

They're just scared.  They know times are getting tougher and they don't want lose everything.  The socialists have been trying to rope this country in for about 100 years and you gotta admit, they are very well organized.  In addition to the schools, they've got most newspapers, radio, TV, movies - anything to control people.  There is a great myth about the republicans as the fat cat monopoly man, with the top hat and all.  Fact is, Wall Street today seems happier with the democrats, but a lot of people just can not see that, mainly because they are so woefully ignorant about economics and finance.  And that's no accident.  A lot of effort went in to creating that ignorance.

The union member that first comes to  mind - the coal miner or steelworker - is still around, but more and more, they are government workers, and they know where their bread is buttered.  There was that ruckus in Wisconsin recently.  I understand they weren't so upset about having to pay more for their benefits, which are probably pretty good, but about not having the right to strike.  How in the world can government workers - police, fire, garbage collectors, etc - go on strike?   
 

[saddlebum]

I can't even try to talk about it with the union guys I know. As a matter of fact, we don't hardly talk at all anymore. We used to be friends and get along great on the job. But ever since the '08 election, not so much. Some of them have been raving maniacs ever since. Jumping up and down, waving their arms in the air and yelling at me. It's creepy to watch.........well, a little humorous too!

Saddlebum, this is what I get when I try to talk politics with some of the knuckleheads at work. There are at least four guys I don't even bother talking to about their beloved Democrats. Instead of a sane conversation, I get what you experience. They just totally fly off the handle. I guess they really don't have an argument that begins to make any sense so they act like a lunatic.  All I hear is "I vote for the working man" (ie Democrats)  Its amazing what a complete job the unions have done brainwashing some of its members. Its to the point that they make so little sense, that it is laughable.

To be fair and so as not to generalize all union members I should mention the ones who have not been brainwashed.
I got out to the job one day in Nov. '08 and was sitting there in my truck. One of the union equipment operators that I was friendly with came over and started ranting. Was he ranting about the 'great right wing conspiracy'?.....No! He was mad as heck because his union rep was just out there on the job going around telling the members who to vote for. And it wasn't McRino either. I got the impression that the rep was lucky to get out of there with all his teeth. There are sane union members out there. It's not suprising that we don't here from them as much as the loons. The only thing a progressive loon hates more than a conservative, is someone they perceive as being a turncoat or traitor. That's why black conservatives are treated so badly.