Author Topic: "9:32AM"__The Clock that doesn't lie... (Read 6008 times)

ironglow · « **Reply #30 on:** May 03, 2011, 03:22:13 AM »

Quote from: scatterbrain on May 03, 2011, 03:05:39 AM

I hadn't seen that photo, the one I saw looked much more circular. Frankly, I am not convinced for either scenerio. Did they ever find any engines or landing gear in the wreckage?

Your second picture is the one I saw.

Quote

I have seen photos purporting to be photos of aircraft parts within the Pentagon crash site, but as you know..anything can be found on the net..
Below a govt aerial photo of the Pentagon after the crash. I must admit to miscounting the number of walls in an earlier post, also and interesting website with parts in photos, you must decide if they are credible..
http://911fantasyworld.wordpress.com/2011/04/02/911-for-dummies/

billy_56081 · « **Reply #31 on:** May 03, 2011, 03:34:22 AM »

Scatterbrain you basically got caught up in what the conspiracy nuts want you to. They build websites with false information and out of context pictures and pass it off as gospel. Thay refer to their theories as fact while they tell you it happened ten different ways. I have even heard it was a smart bomb, but I have not heard the conspiracy crowd describe the sound you hear as a smart bomb guides itself in.

ironglow · « **Reply #32 on:** May 03, 2011, 05:50:45 AM »

Scatterbrain;
I just found that website which I posted back in post #41, so I just scrolled down the page and discovered the video some pure cretan of a conspiracy theorist claims to be a pool of molten steel being uncovered by workmen at the site. Anyone who would do that is a pure idiot !
Here's the website, scroll dfown to the "molten steel" video.. http://911fantasyworld.wordpress.com/2011/04/02/911-for-dummies/
There are so many impossible inconsistancies here that is remarkable that ANYONE would believe them. I have been working with steel for over 20 years, often taking it to and beyond the melting point (and sometimes not intentionally

) Here are the flaws with the picture which brought a gasp of surprise from me;

1) Molten steel at that color would have to be at least 3300 degrees F. (color/heat range is one of the blacksmith's earliest learned skills)
2) Since the workers here are working at apparent absolute "ground zero", the "molten" steel would have to have been there several days.
3) Steel cools outer surface first and even a mass of great size would soon (within minutes), cool to a dull red color. Even the center core would have cooled long before workers got to the site.
4) If one thinks it is aluminum..I have not worked greatly with aluminum, but IMO aluminum would burn up long before reaching that color and would cool quicker than steel..
5) The supposedly molten huge mass of steel is lying there within 3-4 feet of men working in shirtsleeves and reaching to within inches of the molten mass.. The radiant heat from such a mass would easily be 600 to 800 degrees F. Note; in first photo Dr Jones uses as "proof" ... a man has bare arms right over the huge mass of "molten metal". Hold your bare arms over a trash fire.. then think of 3300 deegree molten steel.

In my opinion any person who uses this as "proof" that steel girders melted and stayed molten for a time..glowing at near 3300 degrees, has got to have been smoking something other than Half & Half !! More than likely, this is a group of workers, some in shirtsleeves, looking for a specific object or person using a bright artificial light placed down in among the debris.

Note the big guy in a blue shirt..hes putting his hands practically into the "molten steel".. ...And notice by his left ankle; is that a square, high intensity light reflector ?

STRANGE1 · « **Reply #33 on:** May 03, 2011, 10:08:41 AM »

I bet Elvis was flying it too.....TM7....... its been almost 10 years, give it a rest. let the victims rest in peace.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #34 on:** May 03, 2011, 05:26:43 PM »

Wait TM was it a cruise missile or an A3? Your story seems to change with the weather. I doubt the thousands of witnesses, my cousin included would have mistaken an A3 for a 757. 757, wingspan 124' 10" A3 wingspan 72', 757 length 178' 8", A3 length 72' 6", 757 bottom wing design, A3 top wing design, 757 tail wing in the fuselage, A3 tail wing on stabilizer, 757 cockpit windows in the front of canopy, A3 bubble canopy on top of fuselage. Look at the pictures you provided, do they look similar to you? Not to me.

So if your theory of the week is supposed to be fact how did they fly this "remote controlled drone" in a fashion that you claim that "professional pilots" said was impossible?

ironglow · « **Reply #35 on:** May 03, 2011, 07:37:59 PM »

I only offered pics which were public domain..not pics from a conspiracy blog. If the 9/11 murders were a conspiracy, it could never be kept that well. There woud have to have been so many involved, it could never stand if they were truly conspiracies . Republicans, Democrats, Socialists, Communists, airlines, pilots, mechanics, air traffic controllers, police, firemen, and all the military personell required to load, prepare , fire and replace the mythological "cruise missle" which did the damage. Actually one would expect the wings to shear and fold toward the rear of the plane taking the engines through nearly the same hole the fuselage went through..this broke down the vertical supports and the roof and upper floors felll to fill the hole..very simple, really.
The article I printed was from Salon magazine and even though I am not a fan of Salon and I am quite sure Salon would have enjoyed pushing a sharp stick in Bush's eye..they had more journalistic credibility than to take up the bogus "conspiracy" dialogue.
Is Salon...and every major newspaper, news magazine, every news network and major scientific journal more credible than the conspiracy theory bloggers ? I suppose each will have to make up their own mind..
How long do you think you could work over a 3300 F blob of molten steel..completely unprotected ?

BTW: No body of Osama..no proof he's dead..A very small group of witnesses. Maybe Osama isn't dead...or died a long time ago...you may be missiong out on a new "conspiracy".. better check it out !

sdb777 · « **Reply #36 on:** May 04, 2011, 03:16:56 AM »

Perhaps those that are denying the ones asking questions and wanting real answers are hoping for an invitation to the Bohemian Grove as a gatekeeper?

I do enjoy engaging in a debate, but when the other person just keeps repeating the same thing over and over, expecting a different outcome(thereby inducing the insanity defense..on their part), it gets boring. I for one expect answers, especially from the people that 'take' so much from me and my family and produce nothing....

What is that thing in the photo outlined in red? Is that a metal desk from an office?

Scott B

billy_56081 · « **Reply #37 on:** May 04, 2011, 04:21:45 AM »

SDB while the truth is constant and unchanging, lies change as their information is proven untrue. Simple as that. No reason to change my story as it is the one and only truth, now the conspiracy crowd they have a different story every week and every week this new fairy tale is told as if it is the one true story.

BBF · « **Reply #38 on:** May 04, 2011, 04:29:54 AM »

On impact nose first, the wings and engine pods attached would move slightly forward or not at all as the forward part of the fuselage collapses until the wings etc make contact with the structure themselves.

ironglow · « **Reply #39 on:** May 04, 2011, 08:08:52 AM »

Quote from: scatterbrain on May 04, 2011, 04:29:54 AM

On impact nose first, the wings and engine pods attached would move slightly forward or not at all as the forward part of the fuselage collapses until the wings etc make contact with the structure themselves.

OK; help yourself..believe what you want...

Buckskin · « **Reply #40 on:** May 04, 2011, 11:49:37 AM »

Honestly I don't know why Ironglow is wasting his effort with this insanity. I'm sure the foilhat people here still think that we didn't land on the moon, and that Elvis is sitting on an Island somewhere. This subject is in this forum catergory for a reason, if there was any truth to it at all it would have been uncovered by now and accepted by more than the lunatic fringe. Select photo-chopped pictures mean nothing, twisted facts mean about the same. Did you see all the people celebrating OBL's shot to the head... I didn't see one single sign protesting the cover-up. Sure there were some whack-jobs making outrageous statements to call attention to themselves, which is all this conspiracy is about anyway. Actually it's what most conspiracies are in the end, attention getter's for the sci-fi guys to fantasize about...

ironglow · « **Reply #41 on:** May 04, 2011, 12:28:14 PM »

TM;
The Toyota /seat belt analogy is flawed at best..all those exercises in elementary physics at best, probably oftern rolled around in the minds of everyone here. I suggest you use a different analogy. Try a Jacketed soft point bullet, peel part of the jacket back to form "wings"..now shoot it into a cinder block...describe the results.
Of course, these are just weak hypotheticals. Now that I have clearly proven the hucksters' "molten pool of metal" theory to be completely bogus and false tyo any rational, metalwork experienced mind,... just how much more proof do we need that the conspiracy addicts are liars. As far as I'm concerned,They only need to be proven intentional liars in one area to be considered capable of lying in ANY area.

ironglow · « **Reply #42 on:** May 04, 2011, 01:10:29 PM »

Scroll up...read post #43 carefully..use the provided link..

Buckskin · « **Reply #43 on:** May 04, 2011, 05:44:33 PM »

"Just because you are among some of the last persons to figure this stuff out doesn't mean the real truth doesn't exist. TM7"

One of the last persons??? Really?
Oh please, please show me this poll of the vast majority of Americans believing this fairy tale. Maybe we should start a GBO poll???

The Clock that doesn't lie... If that's not right out of a Hitchcock story...

sdb777 · « **Reply #44 on:** May 05, 2011, 03:19:08 AM »

The only poll I've seen lately was showing that 36% of Americans believe 9/11 was 'allowed' to happen(ie..the government controlled the outcome). On the other side of the poll only 28% thought the government knew absolutely nothing about the upcoming attacks, and everyone else 'didn't know one way or the other'...... Poll is said to have an error rate of 3.7%

Zogby polling information.....(not that I'd completely trust Zogby one-way or the other)

I would never say that 36% of Americans are insane because they believe that the government is hiding the facts from them. In fact, I encourage everyone to seek the 'facts'....and not just from the 'gatekeepers' at CNN or PMSNBC. Disinformation is a great tool and has been used by the few that want to keep 'power'(that is what everything is about). Whether it's someone that keeps repeating the same thing day in and day out, without answering the questions given to them, or the person saying 'tin-foil hat wearing', 'conspiracy therories', or 'the government says'...........I especially like the last one........there are so many noticeable facts that can be seen looking at the photo's/video's I can see where it would be easy to get confused trying to defend the governments story and have to resort to misinformation/repeating hearsay over and over.

Scott B

Buckskin · « **Reply #45 on:** May 05, 2011, 05:53:04 AM »

Quote from: sdb777 on May 05, 2011, 03:19:08 AM

The only poll I've seen lately was showing that 36% of Americans believe 9/11 was 'allowed' to happen(ie..the government controlled the outcome). On the other side of the poll only 28% thought the government knew absolutely nothing about the upcoming attacks, and everyone else 'didn't know one way or the other'...... Poll is said to have an error rate of 3.7%

Zogby polling information.....(not that I'd completely trust Zogby one-way or the other)

Scott B

Well that poll would not put me in the " some of the last persons to figure this stuff out" catergory as TM7 stated,does it. Quite contrary actually. And I'm sure a lot of people who were polled about such a fringe topic would play games with their answers...

As stated before there is a reason this topic is in here and a reason for the "Conspiracy Theory" name for the catergory.

ironglow · « **Reply #46 on:** May 05, 2011, 05:56:52 AM »

Any observant person should know by now.. a poll is about the last place to consult when seeking verifiable facts..

billy_56081 · « **Reply #47 on:** May 05, 2011, 05:09:34 PM »

I'm still wondering if this was a conspiracy, why ever time we see a thread on it is it a different weapon used as the culprit? When the theory stories are looked into, the expert writing it is only an expert by his own admission. The best part is, when they quote someone who actually could be in the know or an actual expert, the quotes are found to be either completely false or taken far out of context.

What we hear as the official story as witnessed by thousands of people, my cousin being one of them. Has never changed.

Cabin4 · « **Reply #48 on:** May 05, 2011, 06:48:04 PM »

So if what hit the pentagon was all by design a conspiracy and it was a missile, an A3 or whatever... Then why the heck would they say it was a 757? Why not align the story to the conspiracy? If the government wanted to fly a 757 into the Pentagon, they could do it. This is why the entire thing makes no sense. If the footage was unequivocal in that it was a 757, then the conspiracy lovers would say it was a radio controlled unit. That’s what they say about the footage of the planes hitting the twin towers. Because the footage is so overwhelming, they have to say it was a radio controlled plane. So the government used radio controlled versions of regular commercial planes when they flew them into the twin towers but when it came to the pentagon, they forgot about the conspiracy and used an A3 or a missile.....

So what happened to that flight it was suppose to be? What happened to the pilot, co pilot, the rest of the crew, the passengers on that flight? What happened to Lawrence Tribes wife? I guess they are all in hiding. DUMB.

The only conspiracy there is here is a conspiracy to create a conspiracy.

sdb777 · « **Reply #49 on:** May 06, 2011, 02:16:58 AM »

Quote

So what happened to that flight it was suppose to be? What happened to the pilot, co pilot, the rest of the crew, the passengers on that flight? What happened to Lawrence Tribes wife? I guess they are all in hiding. DUMB.

But you've already answered your own question....

If those two aircraft were radio controlled, the people, pilots, crew don't exist....simple to make up names and place them on a manifest. I have no idea whom Lawrence Tribe is.....sorry. A quick search in yahoo showed she was hugging Obama at Havard Law School not to long ago.....is that her?

And the government did destroy the Pentagon. D. Cheney was told the mutliple times that there was inbound tracking to the Pentagon...."Does the order still stand?"(asking whether or not the Pentagon could defend itself with the use of Stinger missiles).

Scott B

billy_56081 · « **Reply #50 on:** May 06, 2011, 02:32:16 AM »

Quote from: sdb777 on May 06, 2011, 02:16:58 AM

And the government did destroy the Pentagon. D. Cheney was told the mutliple times that there was inbound tracking to the Pentagon...."Does the order still stand?"(asking whether or not the Pentagon could defend itself with the use of Stinger missiles).

SDB I can answer that as a former member of the Air Defense wing of the Army. Stinger missiles must have 20 degrees elevation or more to fire. The is programmed as a safety measure so that the missile does not drop to the ground before the primary motor kicks in. The boost motor pops the missile out of the tube then the primary motor kicks in.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #51 on:** May 06, 2011, 03:21:17 AM »

As for the bomb or missile theory my cousin or none of the other witneSses reported a sgock wave that you feel with high explosives. My cousin being retired military would have recognized this verses an airplane impact with following low speed explosions.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #52 on:** May 06, 2011, 03:44:04 AM »

No heat wave TM, a shock wave. People that have real world experience know what I am talking about. And if you look at the real reports, the firemen reported airplane debris. Keep looking at your sites with their self proclaimed "experts".

Buckskin · « **Reply #53 on:** May 06, 2011, 07:21:58 AM »

The shock wave doesn't fit into the "theory"...

Cabin4 · « **Reply #54 on:** May 06, 2011, 07:43:46 AM »

http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/evidence/docs/Flight77.png

What happened to these people? Their families are still looking for them.

powderman · « **Reply #55 on:** May 06, 2011, 03:29:25 PM »

Quote from: Cabin4 on May 06, 2011, 07:43:46 AM

http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/evidence/docs/Flight77.png

What happened to these people? Their families are still looking for them.

Exactly. POWDERMAN.

sdb777 · « **Reply #56 on:** May 07, 2011, 03:35:26 PM »

Oops...more facts.

Here come the repeated stories again, name-calling, and gatekeeper same-ol-same-ol......

Scott B

billy_56081 · « **Reply #57 on:** May 08, 2011, 06:35:37 AM »

I'm still wondering what is the official conspiracy, drone, cruise missile or smart bomb? Where was the shockwave from the high explosives? Folks with real experience know of what I speak.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #58 on:** May 08, 2011, 08:37:47 AM »

So where was the shock wave? And much to your chagrin NORAD did track all the aircraft. I would be open to a theory if it made any sense. All you have brought up have multiple flaws that any person with common sense and a little real world experience can pick apart.

Also most people do believe that muslim terrorists flew planes into the buildings on 9/11. How about a little poll.

sdb777 · « **Reply #59 on:** May 08, 2011, 10:00:27 AM »

NORAD was not tracking aircraft due to an 'exercise' that was taking place.(It's been published by many authors, as well as the guberment).

Not all explosions create a shockwave that is visible to the eye(seen on camera), or even felt by human beings...no matter how close(I guess unless they become vaporized). Am I a munitions expert...nope, but I've seen lots of chit blown-up while serving it the military(still doesn't make me an expert.....but it's better then staying at an Holiday Inn Express!)

Compression of the shockwave in an 'open space' will not be as directed as say in a 'canyon'. And the type of explosive used will greatly effect the type of shockwave also.....just to many variables.

Scott B