Author Topic: Easter question about Judas  (Read 2962 times)

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Offline Hooker

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Re: Easter question about Judas
« Reply #30 on: April 25, 2011, 02:52:57 PM »
We are not all invited to the wedding and that's his point.  You are the one that is taking his words out of context.  Free will doesn't exist.  If it did, we'd be God.

Matthew 10:14

Pat
" In the beginning of change, the patriot is a brave and scarce man,hated and scorned. when the cause succeeds however,the timid join him...for then it cost nothing to be a patriot. "
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Offline powderman

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Re: Easter question about Judas
« Reply #31 on: April 25, 2011, 03:04:37 PM »
SWAMPMAN. Then you are saying when babies are born that God says, this one I'll keep, the other I'll send to hell?? Also sounds like you are saying that accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour is not necessary to go to Heaven. POWDERMAN.  :o :o
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline Swampman

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Re: Easter question about Judas
« Reply #32 on: April 25, 2011, 03:59:53 PM »
Way before we were born.  The predestined elect children of Jesus Christ will accept him as saviour because they can't do anything else.

Matthew 25:34"Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world."

"For many are called, but few [are] chosen." (Matthew 22:14, KJV)

"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations." (Jeremiah 1:5 NIV)

"As soon as He was alone, His followers, along with the twelve, began asking Him about the parables. And He was saying to them, "To you has been given the mystery of the kingdom of God, but those who are outside get everything in parables, so that while seeing, they may see and not perceive, and while hearing, they may hear and not understand, otherwise they might return and be forgiven." (Mark 4:10-12, NASB)

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,..." (Eph. 1:3-5, NASB)

"And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified." (Rom. 8:28-30, NASB)

"... but we speak God's wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God predestined before the ages to our glory; ..." (1Co. 2:7, NASB)

"For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose predestined to occur." (Act. 4:27-28, NASB)

Your eyes have seen my unformed substance;And in Your book were all written The days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was not one of them. (Psa. 139:16, NASB)

"I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: "I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth."Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden." (Romans 9:15-18, NIV)

"The LORD said to Moses, "When you return to Egypt, see that you perform before Pharaoh all the wonders I have given you the power to do. But I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go." (Exodus 4:21, NIV)

"What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?" (Rom. 9:22-24, NIV)

"For by grace you have been saved through faith and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them (Ephesians 2:8-10, NKJ)

"And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed." (Acts 13:48, ESV)
 

"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline ironglow

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Re: Easter question about Judas
« Reply #33 on: April 25, 2011, 04:54:59 PM »
Way before we were born.  The predestined elect children of Jesus Christ will accept him as saviour because they can't do anything else.

Matthew 25:34"Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world."

"For many are called, but few [are] chosen." (Matthew 22:14, KJV)

"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations." (Jeremiah 1:5 NIV)

"As soon as He was alone, His followers, along with the twelve, began asking Him about the parables. And He was saying to them, "To you has been given the mystery of the kingdom of God, but those who are outside get everything in parables, so that while seeing, they may see and not perceive, and while hearing, they may hear and not understand, otherwise they might return and be forgiven." (Mark 4:10-12, NASB)

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,..." (Eph. 1:3-5, NASB)

"And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified." (Rom. 8:28-30, NASB)

"... but we speak God's wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God predestined before the ages to our glory; ..." (1Co. 2:7, NASB)

"For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose predestined to occur." (Act. 4:27-28, NASB)

Your eyes have seen my unformed substance;And in Your book were all written The days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was not one of them. (Psa. 139:16, NASB)

"I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: "I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth."Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden." (Romans 9:15-18, NIV)

"The LORD said to Moses, "When you return to Egypt, see that you perform before Pharaoh all the wonders I have given you the power to do. But I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go." (Exodus 4:21, NIV)

"What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?" (Rom. 9:22-24, NIV)

"For by grace you have been saved through faith and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them (Ephesians 2:8-10, NKJ)

"And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed." (Acts 13:48, ESV)


   Swampy;
      I believe most here have read/studied the Bible, many have studied it for many years..verse by verse, line by line and using many other resources, as I am sure you have.  We each see things differently.
  We can sit here and exchange line vs line and do it for a year...and nobody's mind will be changed.. 
   We didn't all  just fall off a pumpkin wagon......Hang it up !
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Peshtigo71

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Re: Easter question about Judas
« Reply #34 on: April 25, 2011, 06:28:50 PM »
Boys. BOYS. BOYS!   This is exactly why Christianity has gotten to where it is at today.  Ironglow-
a context taken out of text is a con, not a pretext.  It's not properly associated w/ the Word.  But
you are right in saying let this lie.  Shu has the best answer, it doesn't really matter where Judas is, that's just swatting a hornet's nest.  What is important is being responsible for ourselves.  Do yourselves a favor and be like a Berean, 'Study the Word to show yourselves approved' 2Tim.2:15.
One needs to get as close to the original texts and teachings of them before they were warped by man's meddling.  Study the Council of Dort, the earliest teachings on Revelation, healing, tongues.
Few want to put as much effort into their relation/position in Christ as they do in developing a load for their new favorite gun.  The least we can do is make sure you're attending a church where you are being fed the meat of the Word and not some milk.  Finally, if you come across any of the knuckleheads telling you or you are listening to any of those 'Big Name' preachers selling gloom and doom and they know when the world is going to end, STOP WASTING YOUR TIME!!!  No man knows the hour, it's in red letters, Mark 13:32.  Sorry guys, I lost it. :o :)
Among all the people were 700 chosen left-handed
men; every one could sling a stone at a hair's breadth and not miss.  Judges 20:16

Offline Swampman

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Re: Easter question about Judas
« Reply #35 on: April 26, 2011, 12:57:50 AM »
No effort is needed per the scripture.  Only believe....I'll never attend another church.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline powderman

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Re: Easter question about Judas
« Reply #36 on: April 26, 2011, 05:18:47 AM »
No effort is needed per the scripture.  Only believe....I'll never attend another church.



I sometimes wonder if you ever did. POWDERMAN.  :o :o
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline Swampman

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Re: Easter question about Judas
« Reply #37 on: April 26, 2011, 05:28:50 AM »
I wish I never had.....I could have avoided the spiritual wickedness in high [places].

We don't need religion (church), we need Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 6:12 "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places]."
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline okieshooter

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Re: Easter question about Judas
« Reply #38 on: April 26, 2011, 06:59:22 AM »
Mat 19:28 So Jesus said to them, "Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Is Judas not included in the 12??
Thanks,
Okieshooter

Offline Swampman

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Re: Easter question about Judas
« Reply #39 on: April 26, 2011, 07:04:22 AM »
Paul is the 12th.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline ironglow

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Re: Easter question about Judas
« Reply #40 on: April 26, 2011, 08:57:49 AM »
Mat 19:28 So Jesus said to them, "Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Is Judas not included in the 12??


  Okie;
   Matthias was appointed to replace Judas..    (Acts 1:21-26)
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: Easter question about Judas
« Reply #41 on: April 26, 2011, 09:33:07 AM »
Both predestination and choice are taught in the bible.  From God's point of view, He transends time, so He knows the end and the begining.  But from man's limited timeline, he has a choice to make.  Two sides of the same coin.  God knows who will be saved and who will not because He transcends time.  It is not for us to know because we can't transcend time.  However it is for us to make the Choice.  It is also for us to evangelise so that others can make the Choice.  We do not know who will and who will not.  Only by their fruits will we know them, both saved and unbelivers or false believers. 

Offline Swampman

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Re: Easter question about Judas
« Reply #42 on: April 26, 2011, 09:41:25 AM »
Matthias was appointed to replace Judas..    (Acts 1:21-26)

By men, not God.  He was the wrong one.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline ironglow

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Re: Easter question about Judas
« Reply #43 on: April 26, 2011, 03:26:43 PM »
Matthias was appointed to replace Judas..    (Acts 1:21-26)

By men, not God.  He was the wrong one.

  What Swampy ?  The apostles did not act in God's interest, and didn't serve Him ? 

    He moved them to write his thoughts/words ion writing the new testament..did they suddenly turn renegade when it came time to appoint a successor to Judas ?

   Of course if it is as you say, and they have no free will, how could they do anything other than what God had "preordained" them to do ?
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Swampman

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Re: Easter question about Judas
« Reply #44 on: April 26, 2011, 03:54:24 PM »
They did exactly what they were foreordained to do, and they were wrong.  Frequently he makes fools of men.

Paul is #12.

If our will is greater than God, then we are God.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline powderman

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Re: Easter question about Judas
« Reply #45 on: April 26, 2011, 03:59:59 PM »
SWAMPMAN. Then I take it that we do not have to accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour to go to Heaven?? POWDERMAN.  ??? ???
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline Swampman

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Re: Easter question about Judas
« Reply #46 on: April 26, 2011, 04:45:24 PM »
If we are predestined to go to Heaven then we will believe on Jesus Christ.  Just keep in mind that not everyone that does will.

Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord, will go into the kingdom of heaven;"
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline ironglow

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Re: Easter question about Judas
« Reply #47 on: April 26, 2011, 05:10:01 PM »
  OK; so here's Jesus speaking about salvation;

   "Jesus says:
"  1)As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. 

     2) Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

  3) To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

  4) He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches." (Rev._3:19-22)


  Let's look at this random statement from a predestined perspective.. line by line l

  line 1) Why should he chasten any of his own, since whatever they did was predestined ...and not really of their doing ? 
...And why must they repent of things they did, if they have not the agency of free will ?  It's not their fault !
         
        2) Why should He stand at the door and knock, wishing somebody would open the door ?  Really, there is no need to knock,  he already knows what He has ordained. 
  Just suppose someone opens the door to Jesus...isn't that "works" ?  ... I mean opening a door..probably rusty hinges...

        3)  Who has to "overcome".. and what does he have to overcome.  How can any man even think of overcoming anything..since he has no free will ?   And if he does "overcome"...isn't that "works" ?

        4) Why must He tell his own to listen, since their fate is already sealed ?

          In other verses he says "the wages of sin is death"..
    ...Can a person already set aside, earn death..even though  he is of the "elect"  and predestined ?  On the other hand, if he is talking to the non-elect, who are already doomed, why does he bother  to do so ?

  In Romans 10:9 , it says, " If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved".       Now Swampy, there is no hidden context there that requires the reader be a member of the "elect"... in fact,  in verse 13 it says, " WHOEVER calls on the name of the Lord will be saved"..    Again, no "elect" qualifier..

       If one really delves into your convoluted theology  and looks at Scripture from that view....it starts to sound like Obama's war !

   I mean that war we are not fighting against the non-enemy, from the non existing ships in the Mediterranean.  The other day the Libyan un-leader's compound was hit by  non-existant bombs.
  Parts of the Libyan leaders compound were destroyed and numerous people killed...we are pleased that no US forces were in the area of North Africa...
  Kinda sounds like your version of hyper-Calvinism doesn't it...
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline powderman

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Re: Easter question about Judas
« Reply #48 on: April 26, 2011, 06:00:04 PM »
IRONGLOW. Good post Sir. POWDERMAN.  ;D ;D
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline Lost Farmboy

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Re: Easter question about Judas
« Reply #49 on: April 26, 2011, 06:05:52 PM »
If we are predestined to go to Heaven then we will believe on Jesus Christ.  Just keep in mind that not everyone that does will.

Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord, will go into the kingdom of heaven;"

Swampman this scripture bothered me for a while.  I had to pray and meditate on it for a while.  Then I read to whole verse and realized the second part was the most important to the message.

Matthew 7: 21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 

When you read the whole verse the message changes.  I cannot connect it to predestination, but doing the will of God.  It does connect  to a verse in Revelation; Jesus warning a church about being luke warm.

Ironglow good post.
A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.   John F. Kennedy

"If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under" -Ronald Reagan

“So this is how liberty dies; with thunderous applause.”  Padme Amidala

Offline Swampman

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Re: Easter question about Judas
« Reply #50 on: April 27, 2011, 12:42:30 AM »
Romans 9:14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. 15For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. 17For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. 18Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

The problem is you're trying to apply man's logic and standards to God.  He does what he wants to.

There's no such thing as free will.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline ironglow

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Re: Easter question about Judas
« Reply #51 on: April 27, 2011, 02:13:02 AM »
  ....Which only proves what we already knew..  Just because God gave man free will, that doesn't mean he has relinquished his own !

  BTW:  I notice you didn't answer any of my questions in my post #48..but they do require an answer for you to remain credible.
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: Easter question about Judas
« Reply #52 on: April 27, 2011, 03:40:11 AM »
I've heard the predistination teaching a lot in my day.  That is why I say, predistination is from God's side.  He knows everything, we don't.  Therefore from our end, it is a choice to accept Jesus as savior or not.  We live in a linear time frame, we don't know what tomorrow brings, only the outcome at the end.  I have found that predistination teaching diminishes evangelism, even to the point of not being necessary.  This is not right.  You have to take all scriptures in their context, rightly dividing the word of truth. 

God in the Old Testiment shows His Holiness and requires sacrifice for sin or punishment for it.  God in the New Testiment shows His grace and mercy, and preformed the sacrifice for sin through Jesus.  He is loving and forgiving in the New Testiment.  Same coin, two sides.

The same can be said with predistination on one side and works on the other.  "By their fruits you shall know them".  "Work out our own salvation with fear and trembling".  Baptism is a work, but shows what is inside.  Doing good for others is works, but shows what is inside. 

Swampman, you just have to balance the two, and put it all in perspective. 

Offline Swampman

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Re: Easter question about Judas
« Reply #53 on: April 27, 2011, 04:25:01 AM »
I feel no need to be credible.  I'll continue believe the Word, and you can continue to believe the church's doctrines.

I'm done...
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline powderman

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Re: Easter question about Judas
« Reply #54 on: April 27, 2011, 04:44:15 AM »
You have ignored my questions as well. POWDERMAN.  :o :o
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

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Offline BBF

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Re: Easter question about Judas
« Reply #55 on: April 27, 2011, 01:03:26 PM »
So the people living prior to and during the time of the OT are basically screwed.
You had to be born in the right time to even qualify. I don't think free will had anything to do with that.  Hmmm
What is the point of Life if you can't have fun.

Offline Shu

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Re: Easter question about Judas
« Reply #56 on: April 29, 2011, 06:32:15 AM »
This has quickly become one of "those" topics. One says I go to this church therefore I am right, another says I study this Bible therefore I am right, yet another says I have no church and study several different texts therefore I am right. When in actually everyone is right and yet wrong. (yes I know that makes perfect sense).

What really counts is the condition of our own hearts. The Father judges each of us according to our deeds and intents. I think we can all agree without faith it is impossible to please Him. Just as I think we can all agree that only through faith and not by works that salvation comes. The arguments over predestination, free will, etc are just things that trip us up and do not allow us to focus on what we really need. What we each really need is that personal relationship with the Savior. Yes we need to study and pray, fellowship with other believers. What point does a useless argument serve? The apostle Paul stated we should be grown ups eating meat and not still having childrens food. Let each hang on to what he has searching out his own salvation. Let us come together and fully agree on what we can and leave everything else to the "scholars". I think these arguments or discussions do much more harm than good.

The Father told the great prophet Jeremiah "if you want to find me, seek me with your heart". That is the part where we should all be.

Offline Dee

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Re: Easter question about Judas
« Reply #57 on: April 29, 2011, 11:24:05 AM »
There is no reason to speculate on the questions concerning Judas, and whom he was, and whom he had become by POSSESSION, and where he went on his death. The answers are available in Luke Chapter 22 verse 3, Mathew Chapter 26 verse 24, and Acts Chapter 1 verse 25, and in that order if one reads, one gets the full picture. Any questions, send me an email, and I will be happy to explain.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline Swampman

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Re: Easter question about Judas
« Reply #58 on: April 29, 2011, 02:57:59 PM »
The Father judges each of us according to our deeds and intents.

Not really.....that would be salvation by our own works......It's actually just grace.....a gift......period....
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline ironglow

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Re: Easter question about Judas
« Reply #59 on: April 29, 2011, 04:51:04 PM »
  If we were to simply be automatons selected for one destination with no exceptions, creatures with no will, no choices, no thought processes ..no thought required, no free will, no need to think for ourselves;
the congregation might look like #1, while a couple strolling to church might look like #2.. ;) :D
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)