Author Topic: Buying a black rifle these days. (Read 938 times)

SHOOTALL · « **on:** April 18, 2011, 09:12:39 AM »

Went to the Nations Gun Show , a nice show with tons of stuff. While looking I ran across some AR lowers stripped. They had a big old full racked deer on them. They were cosmetic blems . They were nice really and not so expensive. I thought they would make a nice lower to go on my 6.8 spc. deer hunting upper.
Well guess what the dealer would not sell it to me. I had a carry lic and a drivers lic . But it seems now one must show they are a citizen . So its birth cert. , passport or voter ID card.
So if you plan to buy a Black rifle be ready to have one of the three. It seems those un documented workers are effecting us in ways were never considered . This might be a road we might not care for !

45-70.gov · « **Reply #1 on:** April 18, 2011, 10:08:01 AM »

news to me

is that a state law

i am an FFL.....no body told me about it

won't be the first time i was in the dark ....but i try hard

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #2 on:** April 18, 2011, 10:18:38 AM »

Is that Black rifle only or all guns?
If you walk into Green Top (is that still there?) and look at a Black rifle and a Browning Bar in 30-06 do you have to show the same paper work for either? Just picke the BAR as it was the only hunting Semi Auto I could think of.

Sourdough · « **Reply #3 on:** April 18, 2011, 11:22:48 AM »

Other semi-autos, Remington 7400, Ruger .44 carbine, Mini .30, M-1 Garand, and M-1 Carbine. Saw all of them this weekend lying on tables for sale. Have seen all in the woods hunting.

I bought two guns this weekend and only showed my drivers license for ID. We were raffling off a Black Rifle and the only requirement was the winner to be 21 and a valid ID.

Old Syko · « **Reply #4 on:** April 18, 2011, 11:25:09 AM »

http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf

Notice questions 11L, 12, 13, and 20 on the now current 4473. This appears to be communist Virgina only. I have no idea how long it's been this way because I don't buy there and I'm no alien. It does appear to be for any firearm purchase in Va. and not just for ARs.

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #5 on:** April 18, 2011, 11:27:42 AM »

But the purchase laws are State By State. and each require different stuff
When I lived in NJ a long arm was a card you carried all the time.
When I lived in in VA it was a $2 instant check.
Now that I am in CA the rules have changed a few times but Basically drivers license, proof of residence - Utility bill, car registration - Anything mailed to you.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #6 on:** April 19, 2011, 02:26:17 AM »

Not sure if its fed or state . But it seemed fed since the seller was saying he had been checked and told to comply while talking about an ATF visit. It only applies to assult rifles listed as such. He also said many were not doing the check yet . Typical really our plumbing code changed march 1 and the new code books have not been printed yet. It seems the rule has been in effect for some time though.

oldsoldja · « **Reply #7 on:** April 19, 2011, 02:47:38 AM »

I like that, do you have a drivers license? yes, do you buy electricity? yes, ok You can buy the gun.

oldandslow · « **Reply #8 on:** April 19, 2011, 03:02:21 AM »

It must be the state you live in. I bought one last week and it was the ordinary drill. Fill out the paper, hand them your driver's license, and wait. The store where I made the purchase does the check online now instead of with a phone call. The salesman explained that it would take about three times as long as the phone call would have and it did. It took all of 15 minutes to buy the gun and was an out of state purchase.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #9 on:** April 19, 2011, 03:05:34 AM »

Quote from: oldandslow on April 19, 2011, 03:02:21 AM

It must be the state you live in. I bought one last week and it was the ordinary drill. Fill out the paper, hand them your driver's license, and wait. The store where I made the purchase does the check online now instead of with a phone call. The salesman explained that it would take about three times as long as the phone call would have and it did. It took all of 15 minutes to buy the gun and was an out of state purchase.

Was it an assult rifle ?

OldSchoolRanger · « **Reply #10 on:** April 19, 2011, 05:38:51 AM »

Quote from: mcwoodduck on April 18, 2011, 11:27:42 AM

But the purchase laws are State By State. and each require different stuff
When I lived in NJ a long arm was a card you carried all the time.
When I lived in in VA it was a $2 instant check.
Now that I am in CA the rules have changed a few times but Basically drivers license, proof of residence - Utility bill, car registration - Anything mailed to you.

mcwoodduck,
From NJ to VA to CA?

I don't live in NJ, but I know the laws were recently changed. You can't buy a black powder rifle or a pellet gun/air rifle without a firearms card

(NJ's way of saying a firearms license).
I always thought VA had a more reasonable approach to firearms ownership than some other states on the east coast. Guess I was wrong.
As far as restrictive firearms regulations, it seems like you jumped from the frying pan into the fire.
Guess you gotta go where the jobs are.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #11 on:** April 19, 2011, 05:43:13 AM »

You can buy all you want in Va. you just have to show your papers

A buddy said he had to show his last year at Green top . Guess I just didn't get checked .

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #12 on:** April 19, 2011, 05:44:37 AM »

We also have one hand gun a mo. that gets expensive , 12 a year to buy

45-70.gov · « **Reply #13 on:** April 19, 2011, 06:55:53 AM »

where is ''assault rifle'' defined in the law books

i thought that law expired in 2004....clinton and the democrats law 1994 to 2004

hand gun or long gun......changes age of buyers eledgability

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #14 on:** April 19, 2011, 08:24:51 AM »

Don't know about books but it seems the ATF has a list or discription .

Conan The Librarian · « **Reply #15 on:** April 19, 2011, 12:09:48 PM »

I never liked the term black rifle. I guess my rifles must be gray and brown, then. Then there are my indigo pistols, and my matte silver revolvers and my black pistol, and my dashing green one too. Just call it a rifle.

oldandslow · « **Reply #16 on:** April 19, 2011, 03:01:52 PM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on April 19, 2011, 03:05:34 AM

Quote from: oldandslow on April 19, 2011, 03:02:21 AM
It must be the state you live in. I bought one last week and it was the ordinary drill. Fill out the paper, hand them your driver's license, and wait. The store where I made the purchase does the check online now instead of with a phone call. The salesman explained that it would take about three times as long as the phone call would have and it did. It took all of 15 minutes to buy the gun and was an out of state purchase.
Was it an assult rifle ?

AR-15. Flat top version of an M4. Dunno if that's what you refer to as an assault rifle or not. It's not to me since it's only semi-auto.

OldSchoolRanger · « **Reply #17 on:** April 19, 2011, 05:53:02 PM »

Quote from: oldandslow on April 19, 2011, 03:01:52 PM

Quote from: SHOOTALL on April 19, 2011, 03:05:34 AM
Quote from: oldandslow on April 19, 2011, 03:02:21 AM
It must be the state you live in. I bought one last week and it was the ordinary drill. Fill out the paper, hand them your driver's license, and wait. The store where I made the purchase does the check online now instead of with a phone call. The salesman explained that it would take about three times as long as the phone call would have and it did. It took all of 15 minutes to buy the gun and was an out of state purchase.
Was it an assult rifle ?

AR-15. Flat top version of an M4. Dunno if that's what you refer to as an assault rifle or not. It's not to me since it's only semi-auto.

Now this man knows the proper description of an AR-15.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #18 on:** April 20, 2011, 02:26:21 AM »

Its not just a rifle CTL it has a discription just like a bolt gun or break open action. I used Black gun because it makes little sense as does the rule/law.
It was an AR in the case I mentioned but it could have been any number of rifles listed as simi clones of assualt rifles that must make some "black" list .
Where in our consitution does it give power to regulate arms ?

Hooker · « **Reply #19 on:** April 20, 2011, 12:33:44 PM »

I don't like the term "Assault Rifle" but that is what the Second Amendment is about.
The right to own arms that are sufficient to make war with. I suppose that Assault Rifle is the proper term but it stirs the anti-gun pantie wetters up due to their complete ignorance on the subject of firearms.
It could also be said that the Second Amendment is about owning arms to protect the peace and prosperity. Wouldn't that make this type of firearm a "Tranquillity Rifle" ?

Pat

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #20 on:** April 20, 2011, 03:05:26 PM »

Quote from: OldSchoolRanger on April 19, 2011, 05:38:51 AM

Quote from: mcwoodduck on April 18, 2011, 11:27:42 AM
But the purchase laws are State By State. and each require different stuff
When I lived in NJ a long arm was a card you carried all the time.
When I lived in in VA it was a $2 instant check.
Now that I am in CA the rules have changed a few times but Basically drivers license, proof of residence - Utility bill, car registration - Anything mailed to you.
mcwoodduck,
From NJ to VA to CA?
I don't live in NJ, but I know the laws were recently changed. You can't buy a black powder rifle or a pellet gun/air rifle without a firearms card (NJ's way of saying a firearms license).
I always thought VA had a more reasonable approach to firearms ownership than some other states on the east coast. Guess I was wrong.
As far as restrictive firearms regulations, it seems like you jumped from the frying pan into the fire.
Guess you gotta go where the jobs are.

Yea I moved from VA back to NJ and was aboout to go get my card again, you need it to take a gun in the car to the range. When I was offered a job in So Cal. My first question when they handed me the offer letter was is that in American or do you use the Mexican Peso here? If it is American When do you want me to start?
VA was just inacting a bunch of handgun laws when I was there, one a month to stop the gang bangers from driving down to visit friends and relitives and buying 30 t0 40 and arming the whole gang with a straw purchase of someone at school there.

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #21 on:** April 20, 2011, 03:11:24 PM »

Quote from: Hooker on April 20, 2011, 12:33:44 PM

I don't like the term "Assault Rifle" but that is what the Second Amendment is about.
The right to own arms that are sufficient to make war with. I suppose that Assault Rifle is the proper term but it stirs the anti-gun pantie wetters up due to their complete ignorance on the subject of firearms.
It could also be said that the Second Amendment is about owning arms to protect the peace and prosperity. Wouldn't that make this type of firearm a "Tranquillity Rifle" ?

Pat

The Black rifles are not assault rifles. The term comes from WWII with the STG- 44 german 1/2 Rifle 1/2 Machine gun.
It fired a short 8mm round that looks a lot like the 7.62X39 round and was capable of full auto fire.
Most of the black rifles today are not selective fire and while look similar to the original assault rifle the selective fire keeps them from being true assault rifles. Then again in the time of the Civil war with the Rifled 58 caliber musket being the standard the Henry lever action was the assault rifle of the day. I am sure that some day technology will make the AR, AK, H&K, FN, and what have you look like the Rifled musket compared to the Henry.

gypsyman · « **Reply #22 on:** April 21, 2011, 03:43:49 AM »

The term assualt rifle, was applied to any military looking rifle, by the anti gun media, 20+ years ago. Made it more dramatic in the news casts. And the term black rifle, I believe started out in Vietnam. As thats what VC called them, when translated to English.
I do remember one incident, that happened in Canada back in the late 80's I think. A young man went into a womens dorm and shot 5 or 6 students. He had been turned down by a girl at that college, when he asked her out on a date. (a nursing school) The girl he asked out, hid under a bed, and wasn't hurt. A few months later, when passing legislation against those type of firearms, the Canadian govt. laid out on a table, several rifle's, and asked a womens group, to give their opinion, on which guns should be banned. Ar's,Ak's, Uzi's,Fn's, were picked out. The actual gun he used, a Ruger Mini 14, because it had a wooden stock, no flash supressor, and didn't have a 30rd mag in it, was deemed ok by the women.(they said it didn't look nasty like the other guns!)
As far as buying a black rifle, here in Ohio, just like any other firearm. Fill out the form, show them your drivers lisc., dealer calls in a background check, comes out ok, you pay for the gun, and take it home. gypsyman