Crude oil prices near 2008 peak

[Conan The Librarian]

The 2008 peak, back when the national average hit $4.11 for gas for a while, was about $118 per barrel. It's getting mighty close to that now. Today's news says gas in Washington DC hit $5, but I checked the local station prices and there's only one station identified, and it's probably a full service station. Most of the stations there are selling gas there from $3.90 to $4.40, still a lot, but not near $5. San Francisco prices are all at or more than $4.07, but none are listed above $4.84

Some news about this says it's not a supply and demand issue, but is speculation in derivatives, which manipulates the real market by trading contracts for purchaces of commodities. In other words, instead of a market of real stuff like oil, trading is in the speculated value of oil in the future. (Enron was a major player in making money outside regulation using this mechanism, and where central to weakening the regulatory agency that was set up to deal with this kind of market manipulation.)

Heres a good site for finding gas prices all over the country:
http://www.gasbuddy.com/GB_Price_List.aspx

[Sourdough]

Regular $4.39, Premium $4.55, Diesel $4.67.  That's $81.00 to fill up the wife's car,  $113.00 to fill up son's car, and $163.00 to fill up my Diesel Pickup.  Wife and I go through two tanks a week, Son goes through one tank in a week, Ouch this hurts.  She has to go to work, Son has to drive to the University, and I have to go to physical therapy every day.  All at different times and places.

I'm flexible I may be able cut back on my driving.  Wife and son can't.

And here Alaska is sitting on over 26 Billion Barrels of oil in one field and Obama won't let us drill for it.  The moratorium he put in place after the Gulf Oil Spill was for the entire country.  He later removed it for the Gulf of Mexico, but left it in place for Alaska.  We have other slightly smaller fields that have capped exploratory wells, that only need to be unplugged and put into production, yet the Obama administration, and Congress won't let us do it.

Don't blame the Saudis, they are only making schrod business deals, looking out for their bottom line.  Their oil is not going to last forever and they know it.  We need to produce what we have ourselves.

[DANNY-L]

So in the future we should expect our price at the pump to remain about the same,because when these other countries need oil we will sell our's to them at a low ball price. Just to help them out,to heck with taking care of home.

[guzzijohn]

It appears under the current situation that more drilling would not help since this is driven by speculators. Refineries our only running at 81% according to ABC news this morning.
GuzziJohn

[Conan The Librarian]

The current environment, with uncertainty about how governments including our own will behave, creates the perfect conditions for speculation. If oil had steady and certain availability, there would be less incentive to speculate. Kinda like wheat or corn. If we never had to worry about drought or other events that cause supply to fluctuate, then we wouldn't have futures markets for them.

Our siituation with oil today is very much like the situation with food in Zimbabwe. It is a manmade famine, with Obama and Mugabi being birds of a feather. The similarity continues in that the people who know how to supply the goods are being punished to the point where they leave the country.

[blind ear]

The speculation in the comodities market is one price driver all by it's self.

The derivatives is like insureing a companies profitability and can be done in a way that acts like leverage investing that caused the crash of 29. Derivatives add the same inflation to the value of property or a business investment that the leveraged investment of the 20's did. That is why the leveraged buying/investing was outlawed post crash 29.

Derivative is a new legal "term" That allows th same leverage of investment for multiplied gain and adds a seperate increase in cost.

 Not written in stone, but from what I have read I think I am reasonably close.

ear

[wreckhog]

Regular $4.39, Premium $4.55, Diesel $4.67.  That's $81.00 to fill up the wife's car,  $113.00 to fill up son's car, and $163.00 to fill up my Diesel Pickup.  Wife and I go through two tanks a week, Son goes through one tank in a week, Ouch this hurts.  She has to go to work, Son has to drive to the University, and I have to go to physical therapy every day.  All at different times and places.

I'm flexible I may be able cut back on my driving.  Wife and son can't.

And here Alaska is sitting on over 26 Billion Barrels of oil in one field and Obama won't let us drill for it.  The moratorium he put in place after the Gulf Oil Spill was for the entire country.  He later removed it for the Gulf of Mexico, but left it in place for Alaska.  We have other slightly smaller fields that have capped exploratory wells, that only need to be unplugged and put into production, yet the Obama administration, and Congress won't let us do it.

Don't blame the Saudis, they are only making schrod business deals, looking out for their bottom line.  Their oil is not going to last forever and they know it.  We need to produce what we have ourselves.

Why doesn't Alaska stop shipping oil to the lower 48? Keep it for Alaska.

[sidewinder319]

Obama could stop speculation. He could as other presidents have done in a crisis. He could order that all speculators must put up 50% on every future order. It would stop over night.  The crude prices posted each day are for Brent crude.  This is  the cream of crude.   Most of the oil used  in the U.S.is from Canadian oil sand.  The oil in many cases was contracted years ago and this price has not   changed.  The Bakkan formation in Mt. and ND could supply the U.S. for years. The low value of the dollar is causing all imports to go up.  Obamas fixation on wind mills is costing America.

[Conan The Librarian]

Obama definitely could do something, but still not solve the problem. There is a European company that does a lot of the speculation. There was however an American law that never made it through congress whichnwould have helped here in the US. Looks like the speculation is global though.

[magooch]

This regime has never made it a secret that they want the price of energy to "sky rocket", so the oil companies and the speculators--which in many cases, I believe are one and the same--are free to oblige the administration.  And I remember that ridiculous Dumycrat congress woman from California who said that their aim was to take over the oil companies.  The plan is right on track.

[sidewinder319]

The fact is that Obama is not a credible president on the world scene.  A powerful American president could and should prevail up on other governments to curtail speculation.  Even Japan is moving to replace the "Yankee Dollar" as a world median of exchange.  This is the weakest presidency in the history of our nation.

[Dixie Dude]

Obama said he wanted gas to go to $4 or $5 a gallon to push hybrids and electric cars.  He doesn't care, high oil prices helps his socialist agenda.  Anyways, he would only say it is Bush's fault.  I guess Obama is an oil man too.  Opening up drilling in the US, offshore, and in Alaska might not help now, but in the long run when it starts coming in, it will help lower and stabilise prices, and help get us independent of foreign oil. 

Electric vehicles are not the answer because:
1) We will need more power plants to provide additional power for charging.
2) Range is not there yet.
3) Recharging time takes to long for a long distance trip.
4) Vehicles cost more.
5) Infrastructure isn't there for quick charging for long distance trips.
6) If there is massive power outages like during hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes, or blizzards, you can't charge an electric

We are locked into liquid fuels for the next 50 years at least because:
1) Infrastructure is there.
2) Vehicles stay on the road for 20+ years and will need liquid fuel.
3) Liquids are available during massive power outages for transportation, equipment operation, and generators.

Only viable alternative is compressed natural gas (cng) because:
1) Infrastructure is in most of the US, only have to install compressor stations.
2) Vehicles can be made off the assembly line right now to use cng.
3) Can be refueled quickly at the cng stations. Usually withing 15-30 minutes.
4) Range between refuelings is now up to 200 miles.
5) Speed is the same as gasoline or diesel.
6) Cost of a dedicated cng vehicle is the same as gasoline. 

Diesel is another alternative, but it is made from oil, however it does get better mileage.
 
So, if we are locked into liquid fuels the next 20-50 year, we have to have more oil or switch some vehicles to cng like fleets.  Otherwise, we must drill, drill, drill.  And/or build coal gasification plants or algae farms.

[Old Fart]

Checked at the corner as I came home today.
Gas - 3.67
Diesel - 3.87

Interesting thing I noticed on the way home yesterday at this station.
They dropped the prices! 
Gas - 3.63
Diesel - 3.83
Looks like if no one buys it, they drop the price.
What a concept.

I posted this in the other fuel thread today.

[us920669]

Blaming speculators is kind of like blaming the rain when the problem is a hole in the roof.  Prices of all commodities are surging because the US Fed is flooding the world with dollars, mainly to bail out the big banks who are still underwater on their mortgage backed securities.  A lot of the unrest in the Middle East is caused by rising food prices, and this unrest is really lighting a fire under oil. The inflation that is coming will be a lot worse than what we are seeing now.  Clinton really did a tap dance on our economy when he decided that anyone with a pulse should get a home mortgage.

[Sourdough]

Uncertainty about the middle east is the main problem concerning oil prices.  If we were to start drilling in the US, and drilled enough to support our own needs there would be no more uncertainty and prices would stabilize.  Then competition would drive the prices down

[us920669]

Absolutely right.  I don't know why the Republicans don't make more of this.  O man said he opened up the Gulf again, but my information is that most of the rigs picked up and left during the moratorium.  One place they went is off the coast of Africa.  Funny, the libs respond to the environmentalists.  Well, I support the environment, but places like Africa have some of the worst regulations while we have some of the best.