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Author Topic: My head hurts, IMR 4227 and H4227 data?  (Read 1937 times)

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Offline Canuck Bob

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My head hurts, IMR 4227 and H4227 data?
« on: April 21, 2011, 05:48:58 PM »
I have just left my cave and found out H4227 is no more.  An internet search has revealed some disturbing data.  Hodgdon has discontinued H4227 after buying IMR.  However the new IMR 4227 is from Australia and is the old H4227 and not the old IMR 4227 from Canada.  But you can't use the old H4227 data!!!!  This is only one version of the tale but my favorite because it reminds a guy to be wary of internet facts.

Does anyone know the real story from reliable sources?  I couldn't find any info on the Hodgdon or IMR site.
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Offline .22-5-40

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Re: My head hurts, IMR 4227 and H4227 data?
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2011, 06:08:06 PM »
Hello, Canuck Bob.  I feel your pain..Only in my case, I found the original H4227 shot better in my .22 Hornet than the IMR stuff.  Then, like you I found out Hodgdon dropped the H & went with the IMR.  I started buying all the H4227 I could find, then called Hodgdon to see if they had any left..technician said that the new stuff would be labeled IMR..but it would be the same as original H4227!  I haven't bought any of the new IMR..would be interesting for someone to chronograph loads using both powders.
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Offline McDerry

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Re: My head hurts, IMR 4227 and H4227 data?
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2011, 10:07:39 PM »
It should be the same stuff as it always has been.  IMR4227 was a commercial version of the old military 4227 powder, H4227 was the same military powder bought in bulk and stuffed into Hodgdon containers and resold.  IMR4227 outsold the H4227 hand over fist so it was natural to discontinue the sale of the weaker seller of the same thing.  Its like comparing Red Dot and Promo.   Mind you start low and work your way up again like any other new powder.
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Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: My head hurts, IMR 4227 and H4227 data?
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2011, 02:51:58 AM »
you are correct. the new imr4227 is actually the h4227 variant in an imr can. None of this is a big consern. Ive been using both for 30 years and have never seen where any load posted for either in a loading manual was unsafe with the other. They were slightly differnt back in the day but the burning rates were so close that to get into dangerous pressures youd have to be loading to levels about any loading manual.
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Offline Canuck Bob

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Re: My head hurts, IMR 4227 and H4227 data?
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2011, 08:46:13 AM »
Thanks, picking up a pound tomorrow for my first handloads in awhile.
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: My head hurts, IMR 4227 and H4227 data?
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2011, 08:53:02 AM »
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Offline Doublebass73

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Re: My head hurts, IMR 4227 and H4227 data?
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2011, 09:49:26 AM »
Quote from: Canuck Bob on April 22, 2011, 08:46:13 AM
Thanks, picking up a pound tomorrow for my first handloads in awhile.

Bob,

Let us know if it says Made in Australia or Made in Canada on the can. The can I bought last year says Made in Canada on the side.
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Offline Bullseye

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Re: My head hurts, IMR 4227 and H4227 data?
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2011, 03:45:19 PM »
Just thinking out loud here since I use a lot of IMR 4227.

The new would have to be very similiar to the old or they would create a very huge and dangerous problem.  Think of all the older books out there that call for IMR4227.  If they changed it drastically without giving it a new name it would be a liability nightmare.

Not saying I do not agree with owning newer books and starting low and working up, but I also do not have the current version of every manual because I cannot afford them and they really do not change that much.
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Offline buck460XVR

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Re: My head hurts, IMR 4227 and H4227 data?
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2011, 05:19:42 AM »
Quote from: Doublebass73 on April 23, 2011, 09:49:26 AM
Quote from: Canuck Bob on April 22, 2011, 08:46:13 AM
Thanks, picking up a pound tomorrow for my first handloads in awhile.

Bob,

Let us know if it says Made in Australia or Made in Canada on the can. The can I bought last year says Made in Canada on the side.

Last two cans I bought both say "made in Australia"  and "packaged in USA". The newest one was bought about 4 months ago.
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Offline Canuck Bob

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Re: My head hurts, IMR 4227 and H4227 data?
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2011, 10:50:08 AM »
Quote from: Doublebass73 on April 23, 2011, 09:49:26 AM
Quote from: Canuck Bob on April 22, 2011, 08:46:13 AM
Thanks, picking up a pound tomorrow for my first handloads in awhile.

Bob,

Let us know if it says Made in Australia or Made in Canada on the can. The can I bought last year says Made in Canada on the side.

The container is standard IMR but it does clearly state Australia as the point of manufacture.
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Offline Doublebass73

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Re: My head hurts, IMR 4227 and H4227 data?
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2011, 03:51:12 PM »
Thanks, that makes sense. The can I have must be older, I think all of their products are made in Australia now.
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"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."

---- William Pitt (the Younger), Speech in the House of Commons, November 18, 1783

Offline LanceR

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Re: My head hurts, IMR 4227 and H4227 data?
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2011, 04:43:49 AM »
Why don't you just call Hodgdon and ask?  They have a very good tech department and have tons of data that's not on their site.  They continuously evaluate and update their data.  I really like the fact that they publish all the data or you can call in for it, unlike many of their competitors.

Also, regarding the "old" and "new" powders, many powder formulations change over time and other issues pop up, too.   All powder manufacturers admonish us as responsible reloaders to only use the most recent data so there is no "old" data-only "new" data.

If we want to be safe and responsible as reloaders, we need to confirm every now and then that we are using the most current data.

Good luck

Lance
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: My head hurts, IMR 4227 and H4227 data?
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2011, 05:42:26 AM »
+1 on contacting Hodgdon!  ;)

Tim

http://hodgdon.com/contactus.html
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