Author Topic: Soap, washing out at end of day (Read 1856 times)

bear55 · « **on:** April 25, 2011, 05:47:06 AM »

As new on forum find topics and info great, quite often there is quite a discussion about cleaning and most go back to the basics of soap and water, but water creates rust. So going back 200 years they didn't have soap like the "who knows what is in the smelly stuff we use today." They used lye and lard to make soap, lye is opposite of acid, the sulphur in bp creates sulphuric acid which is not good on barrels so using lye soap should help neutralize the acid from BP. Have not found this topic yet going back in the forum. I have switched to olive oil to see if I can get the slight brown to stop (rust) from appearing when I run a patch through before loading the gun after it has not been used for a few days.

Winter Hawk · « **Reply #1 on:** April 25, 2011, 07:03:19 AM »

After cleaning, try run a couple of patches sopping wet with isopropyl alcohol down the bore, then a couple of dry patches before the final oiling. The alcohol displaces any moisture which you couldn't get out. Make sure it's 99% alcohol, not rubbing alcohol which has water in it and defeats what you are trying to do.

I used to be cursed with the brown patch until I learned about this from the Muzzle Loaders Mailing List (giving credit where it's due).

There also seems to be a difference between gun brands. I had very little problems of flash rust with a T-C I had, while the Lyman and Cabala's (read Investarms) were a lot more susceptible to it.

-Kees-

yooper77 · « **Reply #2 on:** April 25, 2011, 07:12:20 AM »

I use soap and very hot water for cleaning. The trick is using water so hot it actually dries the barrel.

I also use Thompson Center bore butter for rust protection and seasoning the bore.

Works perfectly for preventing rust if done properly.

yooper77

Swampman · « **Reply #3 on:** April 25, 2011, 07:18:30 AM »

Soap and hot water are great for rusting your barrel. Tepid water works fine, and windshield washer fluid or Windex works best. Break Free CLP is best for preventing rust.

Semisane · « **Reply #4 on:** April 25, 2011, 07:25:31 AM »

I use soap and room temperature water to liberally flush the bore, then give it a blast with carburetor cleaner, followed by an oil patch. Never have brown patches after that.

keith44 · « **Reply #5 on:** April 25, 2011, 07:29:37 AM »

I use soap (dawn dishwashing liquid) and boiling hot water, only for long term (end of season) clean it brfore storing it. I also use a water soluable oil that is slightly alkalii in make up. The oil is Ballistol, a German concoction available from several sources these days. It has penetrating qualities, and neutralizes the acids quite well. Any water or moisture left is absorbed into the oil and becomes part of the oil. This has kept several of my guns totally rust free (two of em going on 20 years now). The boiling hot water also helps to evaporate moisture due to the heat.

Keith

bear55 · « **Reply #6 on:** April 25, 2011, 10:10:21 AM »

Next time I clean I am going to try using isopropyl alcohol or windshield washer fluid something to get the moisture out asap. Like I was saying they didn't have this stuff 150 years ago and some of those guns are still around and in decent shape. Bear grease (oil) and lye soap??? was just wondering. While working up a load on 58 cleaned after every shot using TC 13 bore cleaner (polydemethysiloxane or call it a form of silicone) water from melting snow in a puddle works. Let me guess what Daniel Boone used.

Swampman · « **Reply #7 on:** April 25, 2011, 10:23:21 AM »

Don't get the isopropyl alcohol on a traditional wood finish. It will strip it to the bare wood.

Bigeasy · « **Reply #8 on:** April 25, 2011, 10:27:03 AM »

Quote from: yooper77 on April 25, 2011, 07:12:20 AM

I use soap and very hot water for cleaning. The trick is using water so hot it actually dries the barrel.

I also use Thompson Center bore butter for rust protection and seasoning the bore.

Works perfectly for preventing rust if done properly.

yooper77

What Yooper said....

Larry

Swampman · « **Reply #9 on:** April 25, 2011, 10:29:32 AM »

Just like to say I've seen many barrels completely ruined with Bore Butter. It's ok for a patch lube, but not for storage.

lakota · « **Reply #10 on:** April 25, 2011, 10:46:36 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on April 25, 2011, 07:18:30 AM

Soap and hot water are great for rusting your barrel. Tepid water works fine, and windshield washer fluid or Windex works best. Break Free CLP is best for preventing rust.

Are you using straight windex or winshield washer fluid as a cleaning solvent?

Swampman · « **Reply #11 on:** April 25, 2011, 10:59:35 AM »

Yes, I started using it after reading about it in Muzzle Blast & Muzzleloader Magazine years ago. One article was called the 3 patch cleaning method.

nw_hunter · « **Reply #12 on:** April 25, 2011, 11:53:00 AM »

Quote from: bear55 on April 25, 2011, 05:47:06 AM

As new on forum find topics and info great, quite often there is quite a discussion about cleaning and most go back to the basics of soap and water, but water creates rust. So going back 200 years they didn't have soap like the "who knows what is in the smelly stuff we use today." They used lye and lard to make soap, lye is opposite of acid, the sulphur in bp creates sulphuric acid which is not good on barrels so using lye soap should help neutralize the acid from BP. Have not found this topic yet going back in the forum. I have switched to olive oil to see if I can get the slight brown to stop (rust) from appearing when I run a patch through before loading the gun after it has not been used for a few days.

I've been shooting smokepoles for about thirty years, and I've tried every thing on the market to clean and lube them. Everyone has their favorite cleaning process and lube, and if it works for them it's the RIGHT ONE! It all comes down to getting it clean, and dry, and storing it in a dry environment. My brother has been using TC bore butter for years to lube his and it works well for him. I clean mine with warm water and dish soap, and after making sure it's dry, use a good gun oil. Just so I don't use Kano Kroil oil. My wife hates the smell of that stuff

hillbill · « **Reply #13 on:** April 25, 2011, 12:16:40 PM »

Quote from: nw_hunter on April 25, 2011, 11:53:00 AM

Quote from: bear55 on April 25, 2011, 05:47:06 AM
As new on forum find topics and info great, quite often there is quite a discussion about cleaning and most go back to the basics of soap and water, but water creates rust. So going back 200 years they didn't have soap like the "who knows what is in the smelly stuff we use today." They used lye and lard to make soap, lye is opposite of acid, the sulphur in bp creates sulphuric acid which is not good on barrels so using lye soap should help neutralize the acid from BP. Have not found this topic yet going back in the forum. I have switched to olive oil to see if I can get the slight brown to stop (rust) from appearing when I run a patch through before loading the gun after it has not been used for a few days.

hunter has it rite fer sure, souns like he knows what he doin, my experience been simliar

I've been shooting smokepoles for about thirty years, and I've tried every thing on the market to clean and lube them. Everyone has their favorite cleaning process and lube, and if it works for them it's the RIGHT ONE! It all comes down to getting it clean, and dry, and storing it in a dry environment. My brother has been using TC bore butter for years to lube his and it works well for him. I clean mine with warm water and dish soap, and after making sure it's dry, use a good gun oil. Just so I don't use Kano Kroil oil. My wife hates the smell of that stuff

Semisane · « **Reply #14 on:** April 25, 2011, 12:27:56 PM »

As for windshield washer fluid, you should know that all it is is water (90 to 95%) plus alcohol and a little bit of some organic solvent like Ethylene glycol.

Regular Isopropyl rubbing alcohol is only 30% water. The 91% Isopropryl that I use to swab between shots is only 9% water. In a warm bore, you can swab with a patch moistened with it and the bore will dry before you can dump another charge of powder. No need for a dry patch.

bobg · « **Reply #15 on:** April 25, 2011, 12:45:08 PM »

A friend of mine had a mixture he made up. He said a lot of the guys at the national matches were useing it. Isopropyl alcohol, hydrogen peroxide and a couple other things i don't remember now. I think one was Dawn dish detergent. That is all i used and never had any rust in my barrel.

Swampman · « **Reply #16 on:** April 25, 2011, 01:32:09 PM »

Quote from: Semisane on April 25, 2011, 12:27:56 PM

As for windshield washer fluid, you should know that all it is is water (90 to 95%) plus alcohol and a little bit of some organic solvent like Ethylene glycol.

It has ammonia in it. Alcohol will ruin your stock finish and really doesn't reduce the corrosive effects of the blackpowder like water does.

rfletcher · « **Reply #17 on:** April 25, 2011, 04:36:20 PM »

After shooting in the field or at the range I swab mine out with glass cleaner before leaving. When I get back to the house I clean the bore with hot water and dish soap, then run several dry patches down the bore. Then I pop off a couple caps to clear any water from the breech. A patch soaked in bore butter on the inside and a wipe-down with gun oil on the outside. This works for me and I have no problems with rust.

Glanceblamm · « **Reply #18 on:** April 26, 2011, 03:20:54 AM »

Hot soapy water here followed by clean water siphoning for a good flush.

Rust, Read as brown patches or flash rust have always been present in my experience. A few patches with common gun cleaning solvent will quickly get rid of this finishing off with dry patches.

Dont neglect your bore brush as it will also need to be used on occasion. I run the brush with common solvent followed by patches of course.

Buckskins & Black Powder · « **Reply #19 on:** April 26, 2011, 06:57:57 PM »

Yeah bore butter sucks! As one person put it, butter is for toast!

I really like birchwood casey Barricade or for heavier long term storage protection, RIG #2.

Just soak a patch after everything it dry, swab the bore, give it a few minutes to dry " both produce a protective film coating" mop up excess oil with one or 2 dry patches and its ready for storage.

Before i load up next time, i use one patch, spray it down with birchwood casey gun scrubber and swab the barricade or rig out. Dry patch, load and go have fun.

bear55 · « **Reply #20 on:** April 27, 2011, 06:06:38 PM »

Lots of good info. and idea's for oiling and cleaning. I think I found my own answer to my own question about using lye soap, found an old bar (I think my grandmother made it about 1965, I suprise myself at what I have) anyway checked it out and the PH is about 8 which should neutralize acid from powder. So will have to try some soapy water on a piece of metal and see if it rusts, if it doesn't there is the ticket to cleaning and rust free barrels. Checked it out on line and once lye soap ages (about a month) it creates glycerin which is good for the hands, may also be good for barrels? Quite a few different ideas for oiling but sounds like quite a few negatives for borebutter.

keith44 · « **Reply #21 on:** April 27, 2011, 08:27:55 PM »

personal guess, but alkalii is as corrosive as acidic (at least to organic compounds) so it may not rust steel, but it might attack the carbon molecules. So instead of iron oxide (rust) it may form a dark layer instead of a red layer kinda like a "rust blued" finish before final carding. Just a guess, but you just might be on to something.

Swampman · « **Reply #22 on:** April 28, 2011, 03:39:51 AM »

Or we could just use tepid water ar our forefathers did for over 200 years.

spooked · « **Reply #23 on:** April 28, 2011, 06:17:41 AM »

urine

, hot water

, lard or whatever trips yer trigger for bore preservative.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #24 on:** April 28, 2011, 06:21:43 AM »

This testing info will give you an idea of what's best to use after you clean it.

Tim

http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/corrosion/corrosion.html

http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/corrosion/corrosion2.html

bubba.50 · « **Reply #25 on:** April 28, 2011, 06:52:04 AM »

guess i'll hafta throw my ol' hawkens an' renegades in the trash 'cause after readin' all this they're obviously ruined after 30yrs or so of hot soapy water and bore butter. oh woe is me

.

srussell · « **Reply #26 on:** April 29, 2011, 06:05:06 PM »

mosture is what couses the barrel to rust no matter what you use . cold water, hot water, or windex if you don't get it dry it will rust. now I'm like bubba i have 6 rifles that are no good now

keith44 · « **Reply #27 on:** April 29, 2011, 08:38:54 PM »

Quote from: bubba.50 on April 28, 2011, 06:52:04 AM

guess i'll hafta throw my ol' hawkens an' renegades in the trash 'cause after readin' all this they're obviously ruined after 30yrs or so of hot soapy water and bore butter. oh woe is me .

Quote from: srussell on April 29, 2011, 06:05:06 PM

mosture is what couses the barrel to rust no matter what you use . cold water, hot water, or windex if you don't get it dry it will rust. now I'm like bubba i have 6 rifles that are no good now

My old Hawken had bore butter used for patch lube, and to coat the bore after a hot water rinse and a few dry patches. One day I noticed I was having a hard time pushing the ball home. Got to looking close, and found out that the bore butter had done exactly what it claimed. The bore was so well seasoned it was actually closing off the bore. Many hours of scrubbing out the hard caked baked on stuff convinced me not to use it too much. Like anything it has it's good and bad side, and anything used in excess is bad. I still use it for a patch lube and to add extra lube to finiky gun load combos.

plastikosmd · « **Reply #28 on:** May 07, 2011, 04:41:58 PM »

straight windex here to clean between shots. I use it to clean it after finishing at the range follow that up with a bit of oil. I snap off a cap or 2, swab it down once prior to first load

lakota · « **Reply #29 on:** May 08, 2011, 05:05:50 PM »

That bench is a nice set up.