Gun Tackle

[Co. Batguano]

I'm due to take delivery of a new 1/6 scale 1841 42 pounder from HMR Cannons soon.  I've almost finished the carriage.  I would like to build a smallish diorama of a portion of the USS Cairo's gun deck to mount it on.  Based on pictures I've seen, the gun tackle is 4:1 wooden blocks with hooks on them for running out the gun, and retracting it. Does anyone know where I could find (or how to make) blocks of this size that would look about right?? 

[seacoastartillery]

     Co. Batguano,   Take a look at the thread we started a while back.  It will show relative sizes of the tackle to things like the trucks, etc.  You will have to look at other drawings or photos to get the finer details, but proportion is very important and these pics show that as well as other interesting stuff associated with the guns of the Federal ship, Cairo.  The link is below:

                                          http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,148525.0.html

Good luck with your build.  If you get a chance, show us some in-process pics.

Mike & Tracy

[Zulu]

Co. Batguano,
The rope blocks you want to make do not have to be funtional if you are just making a static display.  If they didn't have to work, they would be easy to make.  Illusion is everything when it comes to this kind of stuff.  I should know.  I make wooden cannons.
Zulu

[Co. Batguano]

Those were the pictures I was going by.  Plans were William Greenberg's 1/12 scale, and dimensions doubled.  Based upon the pictures, and those dimensions, it looks like the blocks' wooden portions ought to be about 1 3/4" long, and about 1 1/4" thick.  3/16" or 1/4" rope looks about right for the tackle, and 1/2" for the bigger recoil restraining rope.

I decided to put metal tires on the wheels.  I used 2" (inside diameter) steel pipe, cut it to 1" width, and pressed them on after heating them with a torch.

How thick should I make the hull and gun port door before I metal sheath them?

[Cannoneer]

See: Blocks & Purchases
        Blocks - p 216
        Purchases - p 223

http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/B_S_M/Contents.html

[Double D]

Here's my rendition:





Here's the real deal.

[Co. Batguano]

I'd like to scale model the outside of the ship too.  Any idea how thick to make the wood, and iron plating?  .  I think I read that the oak was 24" thick under 4" of iron bands (RR tracks) and 2 1/2" of plating on top of that.  That seems too thick.  I could see 12" of oak on top of 12" joist stringers though.

Same goes for the gun port doors.  Operating system?  Hold open?  Hard to find much detail on this stuff on the net.

[Cannoneer]

This document may contain some information that you'll find useful.

http://www.nps.gov/history/history/online_books/vick/cairo_hsr.pdf

[Co. Batguano]

wow, wow, and wow.

There's great info in there.  Scaling a cross section of the gun deck (and supporting infrastucture) will make the model about 24" tall, 20" wide, and 30 " long.  Scaled armor and sheathing will be about 4" thick.  If I put it on a base it will make a neat end table / display in my home office. 

Just finished the carriage now (quarter sawn white oak), and am using the classic "ammonia fuming process" to get the stain and color.  Even though the prototypes were painted black, it's an injustice to cover up the beautiful grain of the quartersawn white oak.  I'll just let it fume real dark, but not black.

when that's done I can start on the diorama.  that ought to keep me busy for the summer, and away from buying another cannon project, which is a good thing.  I'd probably buy / build a full scale 6 pounder field gun, and have no place to store it!

[innomine]

Here's my rendition:





Here's the real deal.

Bonjour to all and each one,

See Double_D I am happily coming with what you asked.

Double_D is one of the very rare who respect the Gun Gear as specified at the time.

He ask me to share what I know.( I do it as a thank you for the permission he gave to me to use his photographies)
that is why I am imposing myself here.

Double_D is the only person I know so far who does it is apart my keyboard Friend Den Holmes :
see the picture "rigging the cannons" at http://www.densmodelships.com/12.html
look at the ropewalk section , in fact look every page of this site !


You can find the text to which I am referring here under at
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~pbtyc/B_S_M/Contents.html

Boy's MANUAL OF SEAMANSHIP AND GUNNERY   1871 for the 7th edition
compiled for the use of the training ships of the Royal Navy   C. Burney (Captain.)

specifically at http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~pbtyc/B_S_M/Ropemaking.html
[open quote]
Gun Gear
Is hawser-laid three-stranded left-handed rope, generally termed reverse-laid rope. The yarns and strands being laid up right-handed, and the rope left-handed, renders it soft and more easy to handle ; for all it is not so durable, as it is more apt to admit the wet and cause it to rot.
The large size, which is used for gun-breechings, is most difficult to splice ; as the strands are unlaid, each strand has to be marled down separately to keep it together; the yarns and strands being laid up the same way, they are apt to open out as soon as a strand is unlaid.
It is made from the best Italian yarns.
Hawser-laid right-handed three-stranded rumbowline twice-laid or re-manufactured rope, is hawser-laid, three stranded right-handed.
It is made from outside yarns. It is a coarse, soft, pliable rope, and very useful for many purposes, such as stage lashings, &c. ; it also makes good nippers.
There are no regular sizes for making this description of rope.
[end quote]

Another source is an entry in The Ashley Book of Knots (edited1944) page 23  #113

Say we are speaking of hemp ( different staple fibres have different orientation)
The fibres is pun into *yarns* following the natural orientation.
Then yarns are assembled intyo *strand* using a torsion opposite to that which was used to make the yarns
Then the strand are laid in to an hawser using a rotation of identical direction to that which was used to make the yarns.
Then hawser ( they beacome name cordon when doing that) can be assembled into higher order cordage using the same torsion that the one used to make the strands
So the formula for a hemp cordage is
fibre-yarn / strands / hawser / cable
      Z                S              Z         S
with the so called reverse-laid ( garachoir  or main-torse in French)it is
fibre-yarn / strands / hawser
      Z                Z              S       

Those reverse-laid were used    cannot be proven to have been used in machine of war of old ( catapult and such) and in France at least some made with sinew and ligament were (use) experimented as dampers for horse-drawn carriage.

It seems that they also could have been used for making vibration cords for string music instrument but more of that in a topic I am still writing for my web pages.


You could find some interest in foraging in my web pages (    http://charles.hamel.free.fr/knots-and-cordages/    )     : as along the years it became labyrinthine
I made for you a PDF file listing the points that could be of interest to ship modeller wanting
some precisions. It can be download at : http://tinyurl.com/cn9b6y2
Though I explained in details how to understand the with/ against the sun ; right as opposed to right-handed ( respectively Left) and other
flavoured but obsolete expression that do not address the intelligence but the memory with quite an overload I strongly suggest that
everyone stay with the international nomenclature of "Z" and "S". I always find better to understand rather than to simply memorize by rote,
I explain how the rule for rolling, unrolling, coiling, uncoiling laid ropes or installing correctly dead-eyes *all* stem from the
absolute necessity of respecting the lay of the rope.

Cordialement
Charles

[The Jeff]

If you look through old ordinance instructions to find rope sizes, keep in mind that they measured rope by the circumference. Somewhere in there it says to use breechings 9 inches "in the coil" on IX Dahlgrens, which would be a rope 2.86 inches in diameter.


Probably common knowledge for a lot of you on this board, but I was stumped for a long time trying to figure out how they managed to get a 9 inch diameter rope through 4.5 inch breeching jaws.