Fuel additives ??

[243dave]

I finally got to do some almost all highway driving for over 500 miles and the Durango got 19.24mpg.  Before this it had never done better than 17.9mpg, the average was around 17.6mpg.  It'll take some more highway driving to confirm the numbers and come up with a good average, I suspect it'll do a bit better because I did a bit of in town driving and for a while exceding 80mph.  I'm still getting 16.5 mpg with the mixed driving I do around here, thats up 1.4mpg than what it was.  I have done nothing but add 2 stroke oil to the gas to get results.  I'll give some more updates later.
Dave

[wtxbadger]

You have a valid point on OPEC's and other middle eastern oil exporting countries determining to a large part what we pay at the pump. We do have the ability in the US to moderate that some by exploring and developing the resources we have here both onshore and offshore. I realize that is a touchy subject for some but it is within our ability to do it.

On the profits realized by Exxon, BP, and other major oil companies, their profits are directly tied to the rise in in price per barrel of oil. Those profits are realized from a tremendous outlay of money. The return on dollars invested in drilling and completing a well and getting it on production are a lot smaller than people think. A typical well drilled out here in west Texas runs around $2,000,000 by the time you start producing it. By the time you back out taxes paid to the state on the volumes you produce, pay the mineral owner his royalty whether it is an individual, the state, or the feds, pay your working interest partners, deduct your monthly operating expenses to produce the well which requires someone to drive to it every day and keep the pumping equipment operating(there are very few flowing wells in the US), pay the office staff to file the monthly production reports with the state or feds, and also the production engineer that is responsible for that well and overseeing it, the margins get a lot thinner than you would think. The wall street take on this is called "Return on Investment" which compares total dollars invested versus gross profits. Basically you deduct your initial investment in the well plus the monthly expenses necessary to produce it and get your product to market and what you have left is your actual net return. Take a look at companies like Microsoft, Walmart, and others and see what their profits are in comparison and take into account their return on investment and you will find a considerable difference. There was a time when people like Sam Walton promoted "Made in America" and actively sought out those products to sell in his stores. When he passed away that was thrown out the window and I challenge anyone to find more than just a few products that are not made in China. The reason I bring this into the discussion is because they are lowering their initial investment by a large margin while only reducing the price of their goods by a small margin and increasing their net return tremendously.

We definitely are dependent on petroleum products and that wont change for the foreseeable future but if the powers that be in washington and elsewhere would allow it we could reduce that dependence to at least a small degree and ease the pain at the pump and our heating and cooling costs.

badger

[243dave]

Badger,  I believe most people support domestic oil and frown on the imported oil that we are largely dependent on.  I have read before of the expenses of domestic drilling and from what I understand a lot of it is the local, state and federal governments getting their piece of the pie before the petroleum is ever refined.  If what I read is true its a real shame,  because the more that something cost to produce, of course it'll reflect on what the consumer pays.  Fuel prices will never stabilize.  There will always be conflicts in the Middle East, hurricanes, population fluctuations, etc, etc.  What we really need is new technologies to ease and eventually replace fossil fuels.  Its out there just very expensive, we just need to figure out how to make it affordable.     
Dave

[Awf Hand]

The principle behind adding a lubricant to your motor fuel is this:
If your engine is consuming NO oil in 3k-4k miles, then there is really nothing lubricating the upper (swept) portion of your cylinder, as the rings are effectively squeegeeing the oil from it on their downward pass.  Putting a lubricant in your fuel reduces internal engine friction by lubing that portion of the cylinder.

A two-cycle engine will last every bit as long as a four-cycle in terms of engine revolutions.  The reason they've been assigned the "don't last" label is that most run wide full open for the bulk of their lives.  Put a four-cycle engine in an application where a friction clutch or torque converter doesn't come on until 7k rpm and it 'won't last' either.

Two cycle lube is a miracle in a bottle.  My chainsaw has and will run for years between 10k and 15k RPM with the only thing helping the piston glide through the cylinder being the thin film formed by a 50:1 gas/oil mix. 

Hell, I even use it in my bullet lube. 

Adding some to your vehicles gas tank shouldn't be a bad thing.  The only harm that could be caused may be to the emission system.  BUT considering the amount of other contaminants (debris, moisture, etc.) in motor fuels, this is probably negligible.

I've been using the "Marvel Mystery Lube" - not 'Marbles'- as an additive for years, but only in the summer.  I've found no gains in the winter.  My car will gain about 5% in fuel mileage if that is the only thing I do.  With everything that I do, my regular fuel mileage will be 38-42mpg on a 1996 Geo Prizm.  I've owned this car since 2002.  The first few years it would run 32-35mpg- actually not bad for a 4dr sedan.

Years ago, I worked with a mechanic who'd done a lot of experimenting on his 1973 Olds Delta 88.  Using a combination of 'changes', he'd gotten about 22-25mpg (!) out of the 455 cubic inch V-8 -on longer trips.  Around town, there was not much noticeable difference and it ran around 15mpg or less.

-Cooler heat range spark plugs -I don't know why this worked for him, but it did and does for me.
-Modified air intake to pick-up warmer air (I've not done this)
-Ran tire pressure at 60psi -despite sidewall rating of 35psi!- (I only run about 5-10psi over sidewall and have for years)
-Underdrive pulley on alternator (my belt drives will not permit this)
-Marvel Mystery Oil additive in fuel and engine oil (yes)
(I believe that he had a B&M shift kit installed that acted as a lock-up converter, but I'm not certain on that.)
Some of those are easy, some more involved, and some may not be as safe.

It is my belief that a clean air filter, jacked up tires, cooler plugs and MM oil have improved my fuel mileage by about 25% for summer driving. 

I've gotten over 45mpg a few times by drafting, but it's generally not worth the effort or hassle to other drivers.   Mostly a person can idle less, accelerate slower, plan routes a bit better for more consistant speed, and coast (when you decelerate) IN GEAR -not neutral- as the injectors send less fuel.  Those will provide the most immediate gains with no mechanical changes.

[wtxbadger]

I think the next fuel we transition to will be compressed natural gas(CNG) or possibly hydrogen. The heat value of CNG is considerably less than hydrogen but it is readily available and with a few exceptions produced here in the US. Hydrogen seems to be the best bang for the buck but cracking water in order to collect it remains fairly expensive at this time. Both burn very clean and don't put near the contaminants into your engine. My money is on hydrogen for the long term fuel used for transportation here. We have what for now would seem to be an almost unlimited supply of water that is not fit for human or animal consumption or for crop irrigation and it is more than likely that these non-potable water source rights will be just as rewarding to the landowner/mineral owner as oil and gas in the long term.

Just like a lot of farmers and ranchers one of the oil companies I worked for outfitted all of the company pickups with propane as the primary fuel and it was amazing to see how clean the engine oil was when it was changed. The only downside was that the propane burned cooler than gasoline and your available horsepower was lower.

In my 1966 F100 I used a couple of gallons of diesel with every fill up to keep the top end lubed well after leaded gasoline went away. Was a lot cheaper than the additives you could buy at the time. I also used two cycle oil on occasion in it but had more problems with plugs fouling than with the diesel.

One thing I have wondered about on utilizing our domestic oil reserves is more related to our national security. As long as we import and use oil from other countries that leaves our reserves intact in the event there is another world war. Just food for thought.

badger

[GatCat]

CNG is already widely used by fleet vehicles in many cities in the U.S., taxi's, buses, delivery vehciles, etc. etc. Factories have been making CNC vehicles for quite a while...biggest problem for a private citizen is finding a refueling place. If your house in on natural gas, you can buy a compressor unit made for re-fueling your vehicle. For 2012 Honda is making CNC optional on either it's CIVIC or the Accord.
North America has the worlds major supply of natural gas. If we had the infrastructure ( re-fueling stations) it would be a very viable alternative.
Mark

[Lloyd Smale]

not doubting your success but it flys against logic. Colder range sparkplugs are used to prevent detonation. As is octain. they basicaly dont light off as effeciently as hotter range plugs. Cold air is what you want to pack into your motor to get the best milage. It will alow cause your fuel air mixture to be a bit leaner as cold air takes up less space then hot air and this allows more oxengen into your combustion chamber. Maybe what your thinking about is hotter coolent temps. Most motors burn more effeciently when the are run at about 230-240 degrees which is a bit warmer then most thermostats will allow for. Watch a a nascar race and youll see this is the temp range they try to keep there motors at. Problem is anymore that everything is computer controled so if you mixture goes a bit leaner the computer sends more gas to the motor and if your temps starts going up detonation increases and the computer takes out timing to cool the motor. So unless your reprograming your computer to take into account your tweeking you arent doing much

The principle behind adding a lubricant to your motor fuel is this:
If your engine is consuming NO oil in 3k-4k miles, then there is really nothing lubricating the upper (swept) portion of your cylinder, as the rings are effectively squeegeeing the oil from it on their downward pass.  Putting a lubricant in your fuel reduces internal engine friction by lubing that portion of the cylinder.

A two-cycle engine will last every bit as long as a four-cycle in terms of engine revolutions.  The reason they've been assigned the "don't last" label is that most run wide full open for the bulk of their lives.  Put a four-cycle engine in an application where a friction clutch or torque converter doesn't come on until 7k rpm and it 'won't last' either.

Two cycle lube is a miracle in a bottle.  My chainsaw has and will run for years between 10k and 15k RPM with the only thing helping the piston glide through the cylinder being the thin film formed by a 50:1 gas/oil mix. 

Hell, I even use it in my bullet lube. 

Adding some to your vehicles gas tank shouldn't be a bad thing.  The only harm that could be caused may be to the emission system.  BUT considering the amount of other contaminants (debris, moisture, etc.) in motor fuels, this is probably negligible.

I've been using the "Marvel Mystery Lube" - not 'Marbles'- as an additive for years, but only in the summer.  I've found no gains in the winter.  My car will gain about 5% in fuel mileage if that is the only thing I do.  With everything that I do, my regular fuel mileage will be 38-42mpg on a 1996 Geo Prizm.  I've owned this car since 2002.  The first few years it would run 32-35mpg- actually not bad for a 4dr sedan.

Years ago, I worked with a mechanic who'd done a lot of experimenting on his 1973 Olds Delta 88.  Using a combination of 'changes', he'd gotten about 22-25mpg (!) out of the 455 cubic inch V-8 -on longer trips.  Around town, there was not much noticeable difference and it ran around 15mpg or less.

-Cooler heat range spark plugs -I don't know why this worked for him, but it did and does for me.
-Modified air intake to pick-up warmer air (I've not done this)
-Ran tire pressure at 60psi -despite sidewall rating of 35psi!- (I only run about 5-10psi over sidewall and have for years)
-Underdrive pulley on alternator (my belt drives will not permit this)
-Marvel Mystery Oil additive in fuel and engine oil (yes)
(I believe that he had a B&M shift kit installed that acted as a lock-up converter, but I'm not certain on that.)
Some of those are easy, some more involved, and some may not be as safe.

It is my belief that a clean air filter, jacked up tires, cooler plugs and MM oil have improved my fuel mileage by about 25% for summer driving. 

I've gotten over 45mpg a few times by drafting, but it's generally not worth the effort or hassle to other drivers.   Mostly a person can idle less, accelerate slower, plan routes a bit better for more consistant speed, and coast (when you decelerate) IN GEAR -not neutral- as the injectors send less fuel.  Those will provide the most immediate gains with no mechanical changes.

[hillbill]

you older fellows may remember the FISH carburator?i remember hearing about it in the 70's and late in the 80's did sum research on it for a motor i was building. it supposedly more completely atomized the fuel and would give a 20% increase in fuel mileage. supposedly worked better on large ci engines and had a screw you could adjust for more or less power and mileage.it was a very simple looking carb with few moveing parts.the inventor was supposedly shotgunned at his front door by big oil or someone to shut him up.this was pre internet so research was not all that easy and i gave it up as it also didnt sound like it would work well on the small ci straight 6 i was building for mpg.anybody remember hearing about these carbs?

[243dave]

http://www.fireballroberts.com/Fish_Story.htm 
Heres a little bit about the fish carbs.   

[hillbill]

thats sum good info 243dave but dont tell me much more than i already know.it sounds like a good thing was silenced cuz it worked.i did enjoy the pics of the carbs. yu dont find much machinery that simple anymore.brings back memories

[Lloyd Smale]

cool link. thanks.

http://www.fireballroberts.com/Fish_Story.htm 
Heres a little bit about the fish carbs.