Breechloading cannons on youtube - the old fashioned way

[theoldsarge]

Egads, I love youtube.  This is so cool, on so many levels.  Found these like I do so many things, looking for something else. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlwSyFL_Da0     
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qNzmho8O_0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tXtynmeS6E&feature=related
Love these things.  I've decided now that if I ever make a cannon I want it to be a breech loader.   

[Cannoneer]

We've got a member who has a beauty.

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,145013.msg1098588249.html#msg1098588249

[Artilleryman]

Very interesting.  Thanks for sharing.

[GGaskill]

I guess if all you are doing is making smoke and noise, you can fire that fast but if you are launching shot, you will have recoil and have to realign the aim (assuming you are aiming at something.)  Fun but maybe not realistic.

[theoldsarge]

We've got a member who has a beauty.
http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,145013.msg1098588249.html#msg1098588249

That doesn't work for me, just takes me back to the index.

Fast doesn't matter, it's the fun part that counts. 

[Cat Whisperer]

Hmmm.
Just now worked for me.

Here's the topic:  15th c. Wrought Iron Breechblock 2 pdr

[theoldsarge]

OK, that link still didn't work for me, but with the topic title was able to search and run it down.  Thanks.
http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,145013.msg1098588249.html?PHPSESSID=k4nb476s0644j0ml4jd4sitbm3#msg1098588249
That definitely is first class.

[Cat Whisperer]

Curious.
THe link you posted workedhere.  (Internet 8 on Windows XP)

How did it not work?  (Did you get a yellow bar (slightly visible at the top) indicating that it may have been blocked?)

Yes, FIRST CLASS,  that was by Richard (the First Class albeit slightly smokey) - it's a way of life for him.   

[theoldsarge]

Curious.
THe link you posted workedhere.  (Internet 8 on Windows XP)
How did it not work?  (Did you get a yellow bar (slightly visible at the top) indicating that it may have been blocked?)

Nope, no yellow bar, just took me to the index page, just as slick as if I had wanted to go there.  I have not a clue what Internet 8 on Windows XP is, so I would imagaine I am not having/using it.  Which might exlain why a lot of links her to threads don't work for me.  No prob, it'll all work out in the end.

[Cat Whisperer]

Curious.
THe link you posted workedhere.  (Internet 8 on Windows XP)
How did it not work?  (Did you get a yellow bar (slightly visible at the top) indicating that it may have been blocked?)

Nope, no yellow bar, just took me to the index page, just as slick as if I had wanted to go there.  I have not a clue what Internet 8 on Windows XP is, so I would imagaine I am not having/using it.  Which might exlain why a lot of links her to threads don't work for me.  No prob, it'll all work out in the end.

Too late at night.  I meant Windows Internet Explorer (the browser) (as opposed to say Firefox by Mozzela) and on the Windows XP operating system (compared to Vista, Windows 7 and others).

[Max Caliber]

Down South we have Winders operating systems.





win·der 2 (wndr)
n. Upper Southern U.S.
Variant of window.

[theoldsarge]

Too late at night.  I meant Windows Internet Explorer (the browser) (as opposed to say Firefox by Mozzela) and on the Windows XP operating system (compared to Vista, Windows 7 and others).

OK, understood part of that.  My computer thingie does use Windows Internet Explorer; but the only operating system I can say for sure it operates on is electricity - calling me computer illiterate is being kind.

[mcwoodduck]

Interesting,
Makes you wonder why the thunder mug type of reloading went out of style.
Think you could have used a mirror and actually bore sighted the cannon for the shot.

[Cannoneer]

mcwoodduck,
It's fascinating that these breech loaders made their appearance so early in the history of artillery, but cannon makers eventually reached the conclusion that the positives gained by rapid fire were outweighed by the negatives involved in losing so much pressure, because of flaws inheirant in their basic design. 

[GGaskill]

When all you're doing is making smoke and noise, the breech pressure is pretty low.  Once you start launching heavy shot, the pressure goes up dramatically and you get leaks between the barrel breech and the "thunder mugs."  The leakage erodes the mating surfaces and causes more leakage, ad infinitum, until you get more leakage than propulsion.  Consequently they went to solid breech guns and muzzle loading.

[theoldsarge]

Interesting.  My thoughts on it were that they wanted to go to larger projectiles.  Which mean larger 'thunder mugs'.  Which meant weight.  Which slowed down reloading.  I figure that the weight factor would lose out to muzzleloading pretty rapidly - be a lot easier, and faster, to roll a round projectile down a barrel then it would be to lift and fit a thundermug, shim it in place, fire, remove the fired thunder mug, repeat.  There would be other factors involved too, making 'precise fit' thundermugs, probably one size fits just a certain cannon.  Then there's the space they would take up, and the transporting.  All in all I'm thinking it would be a lot easier to just move a cannon and several barrels of powder, without the addition of who knows how many thundermugs to each cannon.  All in all I think the breechloaders just became too much of a logistical PITA.  I would still love one in golf ball size.

[mcwoodduck]

mcwoodduck,
It's fascinating that these breech loaders made their appearance so early in the history of artillery, but cannon makers eventually reached the conclusion that the positives gained by rapid fire were outweighed by the negatives involved in losing so much pressure, because of flaws inheirant in their basic design.

I guess the machining process was not as tight as needed for the pressures once real cannon balls were used instead of round rocks. 
Still a neat idea, but probably costly and more guns, most likely won out over faster guns.

[Cannoneer]

The problems involved in trying to achieve obturation in breech loading artillery weren't really overcome until the last quarter of the 19th century. The Whitworth and Armstrong guns of the mid 1800's were noteworthy attempts, but those and the efforts of other cannon designer's from that time still had gas leakage problems.

[bluelake]

Koreans used that type of cannon right up to the end of the 19th century.  They called it a bullanggipo; it came from a Portuguese design brought to Korea by way of China.  Here is an example in the Korean Army Museum:

[mcwoodduck]

Looks more like a swivel gun and the small bore may be the reason

[Cannoneer]

That is a swivel gun, and very similar in appearance to early European cast swivel guns, because these European designed anti-personnel guns served as the inspiration for Chinese and Japanese (Asian) breech loading swivel guns.

[mcwoodduck]

Sorry, Some of what I wrote got lost in cyber space.
I had added,
that the fast response needed for a swivel gun and the small bore size would dictate the "cartridge"( I called it a thunder Mug earlier) reloading.  i am not sure large powder charges would work well as the power pushing the projectile down the gun could or would start to ectch and cut the breach everytime it fired.

[bluelake]

The Koreans used them only on fortress walls, as far as I know (and they used a lot of them, as the American officers' reports from 1871 can attest).  Most captured by the US were thrown into the straits separating Ganghwa Island from the mainland, but a few were brought back to the States as trophies.

[theoldsarge]

I knocked down my fortress walls last week, but I like the looks of that.  One in about .50 or .45 caliber would be fun to play with.