Author Topic: Traditions brand?//Recommend an economical 45-70 (Read 3415 times)

Poopers · « **on:** May 01, 2011, 06:07:17 AM »

Anyone have any experience with "Traditions" brand single shot rifles? Specifically in the 45-70 caliber? Reviews?

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/54323 <-- can be seen here

Im looking to get a 45-70 for black bear hunting and deer busting in thick woods. I had my heart set on a Marlin 1895 but they are hard to come by out here and if I can go cheaper, I'd like to. I got a 270 that I know can kill both with no problem but its prone to deflection. I like to save it for more open areas

Any other brand/model suggestions would be nice other than NEF!, I have read way too many bad reviews of NEF to consider getting one.

edit: I need something that can handle the hotter "modern" loads as I plan on getting into reloading with the 45-70

dpe.ahoy · « **Reply #1 on:** May 01, 2011, 03:49:16 PM »

Never shot one of the Traditions rifles. Where in the world did you hear bad things about the NEF 45-70? Try reading through the NEF section on this site, the 45-70 is viewed as one of the most accurate, least problematic chamberings available. Mine shoots quite well, but my new Marlin 1895 GS had to be sent back to Marlin when the round stuck halfway out of the mag. tube. Had to tear it down completely, removing the trigger group and hammer assembly to get the round out to ship it back. Marlin fixed it and sent it back, but even replaced the butt stock as it was cracked around the tang as well, something I didn't see. DP

mauserand9mm · « **Reply #2 on:** May 02, 2011, 01:31:23 AM »

Maybe Baikal? They are Russian made and Remington were selling them under their label at one stage. They make single shots in this calibre I believe. They also make a double barrel version in various calibres, including the 45/70 which is less expensive that the Marlin. If a single hit from one 45 slug doesn't do the job then a second should do it.

Some of the earlier Baikal doubles had issues, but it's hard to get one that fires accurately and is properly regulated - that's why the better brand doubles are so expensive. As luck would have it, I know some guys that will be testing a Baikal 45/70 double next week. I'm keen on knowing the results as I am considering one in 30/06 - I'll be posting when I know more.

Edit - or you could get a CZ550 magnum in 458WM and download to 45/70 (although these are more expensive than the Marlin). I have one myself and have two cast loads that work well - I use a 405gn @ 1000fps and a 500gn @ 1600fps. The 500gn do a number on pigs okay and I've only used the sub-sonic 405gns on rabbits (yes, seriously), but am lead to believe that the sub-sonic 405gns would actually work up to game the size of (small?) deer.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #3 on:** May 02, 2011, 02:36:54 PM »

Quote from: dpe.ahoy on May 01, 2011, 03:49:16 PM

Try reading through the NEF section on this site, the 45-70 is viewed as one of the most accurate, least problematic chamberings available. Mine shoots quite well,

+1 what DP said, I have over 50 H&Rs, six are 45-70s, they're all good shooters, trapdoor to as hot as you can stand!!

Tim

chewie146 · « **Reply #4 on:** May 25, 2011, 10:07:23 AM »

Those 350 grn Hdy RN really stand out in my H&R. That bullet seems to know where I want it to go. I've had those as hot as 2100 fps out of a 22" barrel, and they shoot well at that velocity. I've not had a problem with my .45-70, but with the ammo prices (even reloads) it is a bit hard on the wallet to go through 150 rounds per session--not to mention that it's hard on the shoulder.

mechanic · « **Reply #5 on:** May 25, 2011, 12:44:55 PM »

In reference to the above post on Bailal, DO not buy one to load hot for. They are for low pressure only, marked on the barrel.

The H&R 45-70 is the equal of any in accuracy, and will handle Buffalo Bore loads.

To get a stronger action than an H&R in a single shot, you will have to look at the Ruger 1's.

Ben

Swampman · « **Reply #6 on:** May 25, 2011, 12:48:56 PM »

H&R/NEF makes an excellent and safe rifle. I would avoid spanish made firearms.

squirrellluck · « **Reply #7 on:** May 25, 2011, 05:02:03 PM »

If you can find 1 knight made a nice 45-70. I love mine but the critters don't like much

petemi · « **Reply #8 on:** June 02, 2011, 02:24:57 PM »

I don't know where the "bad mouth" came from about Handis. If you look below my signature line those are the Handis I own; all complete rifles, not accessory barrels. This week they'll be joined by a custom Handi 32-20. The .45-70 was my first and is still way up among my favorites. They're all shooters and none have ever been in for any kind of repair or problem.

Do yourself a favor and drop in on the NEF/H&R Centerfire forum above before you rule them out. Everything you need to know about tinkering or modifications is there in the FAQs....year of manufacture, twist rates, weights, stocks, scope mounting, conversion from ejector to extractor and vice versa, etc etc, lots of good and useful links too. A large crowd of Handiholics hang out there and are always ready to help with questions or problems.

Good luck,

Pete

Poopers · « **Reply #9 on:** June 02, 2011, 05:54:03 PM »

Researching handi rifles is how I stumbled across this forum. I ALMOST got a .204 ultra varmint but I have read ( across the internet ) about too many quality control issues. Seems they are hit or miss... sub MOA or cant hit a 10 inch target at 50 yards. I WANT to consider a handi due to the price but all the issues I have read about really bug me. If only Savage offered a 4570! I love savage.

I'll likely end up with a handi or marlin guide gun. Marlins are hard to find around here right now though

painted horse · « **Reply #10 on:** June 05, 2011, 05:40:53 PM »

I agree with what you've already read, the Handi rifles are good guns. There is a part of your OP that kinda bothers me, the part about the 270 being a "deflective" round. News flash...any bullet hitting a twig or branch will deflect. Doesn't matter how big. I'm sure now someone will want to discuss the degrees of "deflection" involved between calibers, doesn't matter they will all deflect.

mauserand9mm · « **Reply #11 on:** June 05, 2011, 06:14:52 PM »

A 500gn FMJ (steel jacket) from my 458WM went through two 6inch branches without any noticable deflection (or expansion either)

keith44 · « **Reply #12 on:** June 05, 2011, 08:23:42 PM »

Quote from: Poopers on June 02, 2011, 05:54:03 PM

Researching handi rifles is how I stumbled across this forum. I ALMOST got a .204 ultra varmint but I have read ( across the internet ) about too many quality control issues. Seems they are hit or miss... sub MOA or cant hit a 10 inch target at 50 yards. I WANT to consider a handi due to the price but all the issues I have read about really bug me. If only Savage offered a 4570! I love savage.

I'll likely end up with a handi or marlin guide gun. Marlins are hard to find around here right now though

If you don't like a handi due to a bad rap on the net, research the Remington 700's. If all the bad press about them was true they would have never made them into the second production year. I own four Handi's and all of them shoot sub moa when scoped, fed proper hand loads, and fired off a bench, just like anyother rifle. Yes like all rifles to get the best accuracy out of any rifle you will have to do your part.

The Ruger #1 is the next best option but much pricier.

mattbowen · « **Reply #13 on:** June 06, 2011, 02:06:04 AM »

Poopers;

I have a Handi in 45/70 and it is one of my favorites, it was my first 45/70 but not my last. I shoot mine with open sights and can hit a 12oz coke can at 100yds.

mauserand9mm;

Wouldn't a Steel Jacket bullet be very hard on the barrel? I don't think that I would want to shoot them.

BBF · « **Reply #14 on:** June 06, 2011, 06:25:42 AM »

Cupro-Nickel jackets look like steel. They have been used for many years and do not damage the barrel.

mauserand9mm · « **Reply #15 on:** June 06, 2011, 06:24:31 PM »

Yep, steel jacketed. They are Woodleigh brand and are meant for deep penetration on big game. You can download a catalogue from their website and here is the text from the FMJ description:

"The most heavily constructed steel
jacketed solids available. Made from
extra deep drawing grade steel, clad
with 90/10 gilding metal alloy. The
jacket is heavy at the nose (0.084”)
to create extra impact resistance. The
base of the bullet is rolled back 90
degrees to provide a double strength
heel to prevent core loss on impact."

The catalogue shows a cross section. They are typically 1thou" smaller than the norm and are copper clad. The are safe to use but I'm not sure about extra barrel wear - mind you they are expensive (about $2 each) so you wouldn't fire a great number anyway. I bought a box of them to try out and they shoot accurately. One day I hope to get to Africa. There's no real opportunity to use these over here.

mattbowen · « **Reply #16 on:** June 07, 2011, 02:09:02 AM »

mauserand9mm;

Very interesting I have never seen one before. From reading their description there my be a very thin coating of copper around the steel to help with friction so you don't wear out the barrel.

Thanks

Matt

keith44 · « **Reply #17 on:** June 07, 2011, 07:34:24 AM »

Quote from: mauserand9mm on June 06, 2011, 06:24:31 PM

One day I hope to get to Africa. There's no real opportunity to use these over here.

Best of luck on that trip, I've given up on ever being able to go, but would like to be able to. There are a few exotic hunts here in the states where you can hunt Buff. Not the Tougher African "duggaboys" but still a good solid would be just the ticket. Might be a good field trial for your african hunting gun load combo.

Keith

mauserand9mm · « **Reply #18 on:** June 07, 2011, 03:16:48 PM »

Yes, I am still optomistic about an African hunt but the cost to hunt dangerous game is very steep.

We have the asiatic water buffalo over here in the far northern parts of Australia (non-native species) but they are largely mild mannered (there are individual exceptions of course) and wouldn't be as exciting as the African Cape Buffalo.

Unless you know a property owner over here you'd have to go through a local "safari" company to shoot them, and you could shoot plains game in Africa for the same price.

Still, as you said, it would be good to test on our buffalo here first, although Woodleigh are an Australian company and they have tested their bullet designs on buff.

Of interest, have a look at the Woodleigh Hydroshock solid bullet - there are many good reports on the performance of these on large game.

keith44 · « **Reply #19 on:** June 07, 2011, 09:28:35 PM »

this one?

http://www.woodleighbullets.com.au/products/hydrostatically-stabilised

Looks like a great bullet.

mauserand9mm · « **Reply #20 on:** June 08, 2011, 02:43:20 PM »

Yes, that's the one.

I'd been meaning to buy some to see how my rifles like them on paper, but haven't seen them in the shops (and am put off by the expected cost enough to not try real hard to find them).