Bin Laden DEAD!!!

[ironglow]

The other question would be does one consider water boarding torture? Compared to other types of torture, its a day in the park. Where do we draw the line is a more appropriate question? Ones mans torture is another mans EIT.

A day in the park? Being brutalized is a day in the part? Even been brutalized like that? Not me, and I'd later want to kill the SOB that inflicted it on anyone who is my friend. Of course it's torture - no question about it. That people have been crucified, broken at the wheel, had hot pokers inserted in various orifices, and fingers ripped from joints doesn't change that, just because they're worse.

Acronyms are so useful for obscuring and normalizing things.

I'll field your other question, soon as PM clears up whether Jesus is a pantywetter, and provides some compelling, objective evidence that the President opposes torture because it works.

  Yellow;
  Get a life !  I thought you said you were in the military...if so, then you should know waterboarding is part of the process many of our Special Operations troops routinely go through as training.  To me it is obvious.. you're simply parroting what the liberal talking heads say you should.

[yellowtail3]

  Yellow;
  Get a life !  I thought you said you were in the military...if so, then you should know waterboarding is part of the process many of our Special Operations troops routinely go through as training.

Of course... SF curriculum is common knowledge to all! We learned it, along with our general orders! You did too, right?

Since PM is out, maybe you can clear it up - does moral objection to torture constitute pantywetting, and... was Jesus a pantywetter?

[Cabin4]

Torture, EIT or whatever we want to call it make perfect sense to deploy if they can yield important results that save lifes. In the case of the OBL capture/killing, EIT provided collaborative nuggets of intel that helped bring this to closure. So there are two paths to take: 1. use it and get the killers faster or only ge them at all. or 2. Run the risk of not using it and the consequences. It seems to me that using it is the better option. In addtion, we should withdraw from any internatioanl treaty that seeks to ban us from using EIT. The US should not be hypocritical about this. However, before all this is said, I would simply go back and reconstruct our entire screwed foriegn policy that is leading us into this arena to begin with.

[Cabin4]

I don't think we need to bring Jesus or what he would do into this decision making process. People make decisions and for that thier is a judegment day. We bring people into power to make extremelly difficult decisions and many times those decisions must be void of this line of thought. They want to hold power, they get to pay the price. God will tend to this mess.

[yellowtail3]

I don't think we need to bring Jesus or what he would do into this decision making process.

Maybe we don't need to. Maybe we shouldn't ask questions that will force people to question their ideologies in the face of what they claim to take seriously, and face their hypocrisies. But I take your point... it is kind of gauche to be asking those questions?

[wreckhog]

The other question would be does one consider water boarding torture? Compared to other types of torture, its a day in the park. Where do we draw the line is a more appropriate question? Ones mans torture is another mans EIT.

A day in the park? Being brutalized is a day in the part? Even been brutalized like that? Not me, and I'd later want to kill the SOB that inflicted it on anyone who is my friend. Of course it's torture - no question about it. That people have been crucified, broken at the wheel, had hot pokers inserted in various orifices, and fingers ripped from joints doesn't change that, just because they're worse.

Acronyms are so useful for obscuring and normalizing things.

I'll field your other question, soon as PM clears up whether Jesus is a pantywetter, and provides some compelling, objective evidence that the President opposes torture because it works.

  Yellow;
  Get a life !  I thought you said you were in the military...if so, then you should know waterboarding is part of the process many of our Special Operations troops routinely go through as training.  To me it is obvious.. you're simply parroting what the liberal talking heads say you should.

That is odd that you know this. Or expect it to be generally known. Mom taught Navy pilots for many years on a base that is also a base for Seals. I heard many stories about survival training. Never a one about Seals.

[billy_56081]

All I can say is I am not and will never be pure like my savior Jesus. Now if it were in my hands waterboarding would be pleasurable compared to what I would do to them. And whether it got results or not I would enjoy doing it to them.

If it were up to me Bin would have been blinded, deafened and paralyzed from the neck down and then given an IV and kept alive as long as medically possible.

[OldSchoolRanger]

All I can say is I am not and will never be pure like my savior Jesus. Now if it were in my hands waterboarding would be pleasurable compared to what I would do to them. And whether it got results or not I would enjoy doing it to them.

If it were up to me Bin would have been blinded, deafened and paralyzed from the neck down and then given an IV and kept alive as long as medically possible.

billy_56081

I understand the anger that you voice, but believe me when I tell say,  if you had to actually do the "work" you are hinting at, you would eventually hurt your own soul so badly that you would hate yourself.

Call me a pansy or any name you want, but waterboarding would be as far as I would go in the "torture" department.  And I can honestly say, I am not a squeamish person.

[Cabin4]

C4:

here's no personal attack here. Just a factual observation of TMs constant writing pattern and contradiction from post to post. He has said that 9-11 was a Bush led attack. So if this is true, then OBL cannot exist has he knows it.The referance to the pizza face is not a referance to TM, but a referance to the likly internet sources he uses. There is excellant proof available as to the sources he uses and who some of these people are. He posts links for us to check out who the Writers are! Again, nothing wrong just pointing out the facts. So its important to seperate personal attacks from the ugly facts. Ugly facts are not personal, they are just whats real. Logged

.

Above is just another lame veiled personal attack at my expense for some schoolboy reason.   

For the record I have never said that Bush led the 911 attack, What I said the Official Conspiracy Theory is least acceptable and believeable theory, that this happened on Bush's watch and so he own's the whole collosso blunder and that blaming moslems wholely for the deal is cheap capitalization on the plight and condition of the islamics, which does not benefit America. Cheap capitalization is something C4 is expert with... and easy to do in lieu of real solid investigations, investigations which he trys to down sell and block....people are figuring these manuverues out for more than just disingenous reasons.

Whether 911 was solely Bush planned, or not has little to do whether OBL existed or not; except by way of the fact the FBI did NOT want OBL for the 911 caper (even though mass media has us reliving the whole sordid event again), and the Bin laden family were main business associates with the Bushes in the mid-east. What the the final and real story is with OBL can not be totally known at this point, but it is safe to say that if his demise proves fishy it is indicative of greater dark shenagins harking back to the phoney 911 attack.

Fact is corporate spokes loyalist C4 does not like confrontation with theories, concepts, ideas, and facts that are troublesome to his greater agenda of dumbing down Forum members and so resorts to ad hominens, ridicule, and personal slander to vent his intolerance due to inadequacies in his knowledge and  debate department. This is not unusual with very immature folks, but it is recommended He should seek help to cool his anger blowups.


..TM7

So this is little more than a pure personal attack. An act of writing that contradicts your own written words. Please discipline yourself now. The nearest window will do just fine. Thanks and in all honesty, don’t give yourself so much credit for my alleged anger blow ups. I actually could care less what nonsense you accelerate upward from the dark deep depths of the blogosphere. It brings me mostly all laughs and never any anger. Not to mention, your pure lies about me or extreme misfortunes with reading comprehension are apparent to anyone who can read.

[DDZ]

Weren't the Seals getting $200k re-enlist bonuses?

If this is true, they are worth every dang penny of it. They should even be paid more to reenlist. Look at what government pays welfare recipients that are to lazy to better themselves and get a job.
Also compared to what our so called public servants receive in salary, and benefits, the Seals should be getting much more than 200K to reenlist.

God Bless our men and women that serve.   

[dukkillr]

Lets steer this back onto the topic, and not each other... and if one wants to debate various conspiracy theories please start a thread in the TFH section.

[Cabin4]

I'm good with moving on. I've become very familiar with attacks from the left wing, big government, high taxing, big union labor movement socialists, affirmative action, open borders, NWO supporting democrate crowd. We move forward.

[Mohawk]

Not the moderator here but I think we have more in common than differences. I am not perfect. But I would like us to get along. We, and GB are family and I think we should act as such. Stop fighting, no side will convince the other. 

[ironglow]

  Yellow;
  Get a life !  I thought you said you were in the military...if so, then you should know waterboarding is part of the process many of our Special Operations troops routinely go through as training.

Of course... SF curriculum is common knowledge to all! We learned it, along with our general orders! You did too, right?

Since PM is out, maybe you can clear it up - does moral objection to torture constitute pantywetting, and... was Jesus a pantywetter?

  Yello;
       Interesting reaction..  None of us will ever approach the righteousness of Jesus. Any sunday school kid knows that !  However we all should be "in the Lord's army"..
#1.. Stop your innuendos about hot irons, thumb crushers, broken on the wheel, fingers pulled off etc..none of that is even implied by the most hysterical critics of Club Gitmo...

  ..But I have little doubt the great warrior Joshua, wouild have used waterboarding, had it been necessary to save the lives of his own people...only makes common sense...a bit of temporary discomfort of the enemy for lives, perhaps many lives of our own people saved..

  I would opine that any leader who is willing to chance losing lives of his people, by avoiding temporary discomfort for the enemy..is derelict in their duty to their people..

  So Yello..is trying to make wounded warriors pay for their own hospitalization an honorable position ?

[Tackleberry]

I think it's totally bizarre that we have released photos of John Kennedy, one of our more beloved Presidents laying on a slab before his autopsy, but we cannot see the dead face of that DEVIL Osama Bin Laden..after having justice meted out to him by an American.

[Cabin4]

Obama has placed mouslim principals above the trust that he has sworn to uphold for the American people. That should tell us something.

[ironglow]

Wreckhog asks, regarding my post about waterboarding;

  "That is odd that you know this. Or expect it to be generally known. Mom taught Navy pilots for many years on a base that is also a base for Seals. I heard many stories about survival training. Never a one about Seals."


   I reply;
  Wreckhog; the description of torture is a matter of semantics.  In waterboarding, great discomfort is experienced but it is not "life threatening" and causes no permanent harm.  Curiously, the gas chamber used in training both Army & Marines (not sure of the others), posess almost the same qualities..great discomfort, but not life threatening nor permanent damage done.
   So, the US government by your definition, routinely tortures it's own troops daily...and this under both liberal and conservative administrations.

   Yes, I have endured some of the Spec  Ops training...I'll leave that right there.. The idea that such training is a big secret is rubbish, if either of you have friends or relations involved in Spec Ops..surely you must converse..
   Such info is so open , even your beloved Huiff&Puff post and NPR are aware of it, the NPR through sworn testimony..
  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ben-sherwood/waterboarding-101-inside_b_190318.html
  http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=16104641

[ironglow]

  I find it very comical that some individuals and gangs who were so eager to publish photos of the ASbu Gharib disgrace...now want the Osama death photos kept under wraps...because they could cause repercussions....

[yooper77]

Awesome job Bush.

[yellowtail3]

Some of you really, really want to see some bloody corpses, don't you? There's plenty to look at on the web - just like porn, you can get yer fix.

[billy_56081]

I am quite sure he is dead. I just want to see the pictures and video for the special feeling it would give me. The pictures of his dead compadres were beautiful.

[Junior1942]

Awesome job Bush.

Ha ha ha X 10. 

[yellowtail3]

  I find it very comical that some individuals and gangs who were so eager to publish photos of the ASbu Gharib disgrace...now want the Osama death photos kept under wraps...because they could cause repercussions....

Comical, how? Which individuals and gangs are you referring to? Name some names?

My recollection is the gov't didn't want to release Abu Graib pics because... it was extremely embarrassing and shameful, and additionally, worried that it would gin up hostility. They put the US military in an extremely bad light, and proved something that the gov't would like to have kept hidden.

Photos of Osama's corpse are diff situation, I think. The gov't isn't trying to obscure or play down the truth by withholding them, so far as I can tell - they've said he's been killed, and gave details - but apparently decided there's more to be lost than gained by releasing the photos. Releasing Abu Graib photos was coming clean about guilt - releasing Osama photos doesn't accomplish anything. I think the President's statement that 'we don't need to spike the ball' by releasing photos is reasonable. Who sees it differently, and how?

for those of you who are just salivating to see a picture of Osama's corpse - speculating on how big the hole is, did it blow off his skull? - just wait bit. They'll probably come out eventually.  For now, you can prob get similar satisfaction for your bloodlust for for corpse photos by googling 'death photos' or somesuch. Maybe you can gaze at photos Sheikh Ahmed Yassin and get some satisfaction.

If you want the death pictures because you're worried that Osama isn't really dead - this is for those of you who think Obama is a Secret Mooslim who wants to protect Osama, and who opposes torture 'because it works'? - well, we'll just see how long until the next Osama video. Don't hold yer breath.

[Cabin4]

Some of you really, really want to see some bloody corpses, don't you? There's plenty to look at on the web - just like porn, you can get yer fix.

How about some validation for the skeptics? After all, don’t you find it extraordinarily strange that we dispose of the body so quickly? This was the most wanted man in the world and I think that holding the body would have been an excellent move to insulate criticism from the skeptics. they could have had a number of forensic teams both US private, public and foreign forensic teams examine the body and document collaborating proof. Now, we have no 3rd party collaboration, no photos and no body. Its tritely a freshman move on the part of Obama. No surprise on that point.

[yellowtail3]

How about some validation for the skeptics? After all, don’t you find it extraordinarily strange that we dispose of the body so quickly? This was the most wanted man in the world and I think that holding the body would have been an excellent move to insulate criticism from the skeptics. they could have had a number of forensic teams both US private, public and foreign forensic teams examine the body and document collaborating proof. Now, we have no 3rd party collaboration, no photos and no body. Its tritely a freshman move on the part of Obama. No surprise on that point.

All fair points, re: skeptics. On the other hand, I think most of the carping is coming not from skeptic but ideologues. Their prob isn't that they doubt OBL dead; their prob is, the identify of the CinC.

If I were boss, I think I'd have released some photos, including some of OBL being thrown over the side. As far as whether OBL is dead... we'll see. I think he is, but I could be wrong.

[wreckhog]

Some of you really, really want to see some bloody corpses, don't you? There's plenty to look at on the web - just like porn, you can get yer fix.

How about some validation for the skeptics? After all, don’t you find it extraordinarily strange that we dispose of the body so quickly? This was the most wanted man in the world and I think that holding the body would have been an excellent move to insulate criticism from the skeptics. they could have had a number of forensic teams both US private, public and foreign forensic teams examine the body and document collaborating proof. Now, we have no 3rd party collaboration, no photos and no body. Its tritely a freshman move on the part of Obama. No surprise on that point.

Go to the movies. It is not that hard to make someone look bloody, shot and dead. Pictures don't prove as much as you think. They just provide one more thing to argue about. Now videos prove a lot more in my opinion. A 40 minute helmet cam vid on Youtube would be amazing.

[saddlebum]

Today they are reporting that OBL had a AK-47 at his side when he went down. Yesterday they said he was unarmed.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/inside-seal-team-six-obl-raid-osama-had-trademark-ak-47-in-room-during-raid/

I’m sick of hearing anything about this whole thing with OBL. Who cares if he had a AK-47. Yesterday they said he wasn’t armed. Today he was. I’m fed up with the conflicting reports and people changing their stories. One guy says this and another says that. It‘s all a bunch of crap and I’m sick of hearing about it!!!

We will never know what really happened and why. Amazing that Obama couldn’t even get this right. The message is so muddled that I can’t see how he can even gain from it politically. Which is always his main goal.

We lost secret stealth technology with the helicopter. Which will end up in Russia and China's hands. We murdered OBL instead of capturing him and interrogating him for information. We did the politically correct ‘two step’ to appease the barbarians, on the burial at sea, to no avail. Arguing over whether or not waterboarding helped or not. Clinton says Pakistan helped. Panetta says Pakistan knew nothing about the operation or intel about the courier that led them to OBL. Pakistan was obviously helping OBL, but we give them 3.4 billion dollars anyway. 16 billion total! And still plan to give them more! Won't release the dead OBL picture. I could go on and on about this but I’m just fed up and sick of hearing about it.
It’s just stupid!!
Everything we do anymore, we wind up looking like a bunch of incompetent boobs.   

I am feeling more and more embarrassed to be an American every day!   

'Atta boys' for the Seals and Intel!.....Not their fault!   

[Cabin4]

Other than the administration taking a correct course of action with OBL, they have in fact totally hosed up the entire post OBL killing information and PR machine. It’s almost too hard to believe just how poorly they have managed this. Really like a bunch of inexperienced amateurs.

[saddlebum]

Other than the administration taking a correct course of action with OBL, they have in fact totally hosed up the entire post OBL killing information and PR machine. It’s almost too hard to believe just how poorly they have managed this. Really like a bunch of inexperienced amateurs.

 


Not meaning to argue but I think even that is open for debate. The reports I heard, onTV, and elsewhere said Obama gave 'shoot to kill orders'. It was an assination operation. And from the details I pick up from various conflicting reports, they all seem to indicate that OBL could have been taken alive. I know that is opening up a can of worms over trials in NYC and interogations and where to store the little cretan, and how much it would cost. But if we could rationally and sanely get passed all that crap, how valuable would it be to interogate him. They say, 'a little humiliation is good for the soul'. Well maybe not his. But his humiliation would be good for mine and victims families. Hang his sorry little butt on American soil. And then dump him in the drink.
That's why I say that we can't do anything anymore without looking like a bunch of boobs.
It shouldn't be that complicated. But, 'some', Americans make it that way................................

[billy_56081]

As far as I am concerned anytime a bad person is killed it is a good thing. Like I said before I hope it hurt.