Bin Laden DEAD!!!

[ironglow]

   Some very good points there OSRanger;
  First Osama...er..ah ..Obama tells us that Osama is NOT a Muslim, but a terrorist ..then he insists that Osama be given a "full Muslim" burial..thus reinvigorating the debate about Obama's actual faith..beyond the facade.
  Probably should havE buried him in a pig carcase..as a warning to other 'non-Muslim' terrorists.

   Just for pondering...Are non-muslims anything like the non-war, where we are bombing in Libya ?

Shooting OBL punishes him for killing 3k people. Burying him in a pig carcass punishes him for being a Muslim. Which is it?

As to what could happen, a psychotic pastor in FL burned a Koran. What happened next? Would it have happened if the Koran had not been burned?

 Wreckhog;
  I see you don't understand the theory of "deterrence"..!


 yellow;
  I see you also are struggling with "applied deterrence" also..no need to televise; the word will get around where it's needed  .. quick enough !

deterrence, can you explain?

    See Wreckhog...I KNEW you didn't understand  !!!  Never fear..I'll try to help you!

   Here's a short illustration you may understand.  I'm an old man and in some neighbor hoods some younger "tough" guys may wish to "try me"..  They might just do that...but if my Marine Special forces, martial arts trained grandson is with me and they know his background..they may demure from being too rowdy..   Same if my grandson who fights mixed martial arts in the  "cage" were with me..  Perhaps I could be open to "strong arm robbery" in some places, but my Taurus in my hand.. may cause second thoughts.
  And last, but not least..I have heard some liberals claim that exercising the death penalty doesn't deter the crime of murder.  I beg to differ; In the last 20 years or so, the state of Texas has executed at least a couple dozen murderers..I've been watching the news..I haven't seen a single case where any of those which were executed ..ever murdered again..
 
    All those illustrations point to one operative idea.."Deterrence"..        Got it now, wreckhog ?

[wreckhog]

So OBL getting shot is the "deterrence".  What's with the pig?

[yellowtail3]

And last, but not least..I have heard some liberals claim that exercising the death penalty doesn't deter the crime of murder.  I beg to differ;

May or may not deter; I don't think it does.

In the last 20 years or so, the state of Texas has executed at least a couple dozen murderers..I've been watching the news..I haven't seen a single case where any of those which were executed ..ever murdered again..

very true, none of them ever did anything again... whether the were guilty or not.

[SHOOTALL]

In law a defense of murder is tempoary insanity. I feel in most cases one is insane to murder another person. Those people will not in most cases be stopped by the thought of being put to death. We have no idea how many people don't kill or commit a crime because of the punishment that they could recieve if caught . How many times have we heard someone say if i wouldn't go to jail I would do ............. even kill someone ?

[ironglow]

So OBL getting shot is the "deterrence".  What's with the pig?

  Wreck;
  I somehow though tthat went without saying....  Muslims seem to have an irrational  aversion to hogs.  Not only being executed but wrapped in hog to decay may add to tghe deterrence, if tyhey knew each terrorist caught woud surely get the same treatment.  That's deterrence !!

[yellowtail3]

  Wreck;
  I somehow though tthat went without saying....  Muslims seem to have an irrational  aversion to hogs.  Not only being executed but wrapped in hog to decay may add to tghe deterrence, if tyhey knew each terrorist caught woud surely get the same treatment.  That's deterrence !!

Defiling a corpse... hmmm... What Would Jesus Do?

[ironglow]

  Wreck;
  I somehow though tthat went without saying....  Muslims seem to have an irrational  aversion to hogs.  Not only being executed but wrapped in hog to decay may add to tghe deterrence, if tyhey knew each terrorist caught woud surely get the same treatment.  That's deterrence !!

Defiling a corpse... hmmm... What Would Jesus Do?

  I don't have a great Biblical reference on that Yellow..how about a reference,,you know..book, chapter and verse ?

[nw_hunter]

And last, but not least..I have heard some liberals claim that exercising the death penalty doesn't deter the crime of murder.  I beg to differ;

May or may not deter; I don't think it does.

In the last 20 years or so, the state of Texas has executed at least a couple dozen murderers..I've been watching the news..I haven't seen a single case where any of those which were executed ..ever murdered again..

very true, none of them ever did anything again... whether the were guilty or not.

The justice system dang sure isn't perfect YT, and we know some innocent people do suffer because a power hungry DA will do anything for a conviction. Thanks to DNA some of these wrongs have been righted. Fact is executing a murderer (not suspected)WILL deter crime! He or she will never kill again, and if all states had the death penalty,I believe we would see a significant drop in homicides.

Keeping them incarcerated for life at the national average of $100,00 in an air conditioned cell with color TV, is not justice. Especially to the victims family.

[BBF]

..............................
[/quote

................ Thanks to DNA some of these wrongs have been righted.

 
There is no amount of $ or apologies to to compensate anyone who has been wrongly convicted for any length of time to a prison.

[wreckhog]

So OBL getting shot is the "deterrence".  What's with the pig?

  Wreck;
  I somehow though tthat went without saying....  Muslims seem to have an irrational  aversion to hogs.  Not only being executed but wrapped in hog to decay may add to tghe deterrence, if tyhey knew each terrorist caught woud surely get the same treatment.  That's deterrence !!

And if we raped anyone parking in front of a fire hydrant, that would deter them from doing it again. What is your point? So you say the pig is directed at the crime of being Muslim, not the crime of being a terrorist.

[teamnelson]

You'd be mixing metaphors to use examples from criminal justice to compare to the laws of war, which are contextualized to a situation in which violence is acceptable. Deterrence is an acceptable aspect of Jus In Bello (Just Warfighting), but its tempered with proportionality, and regulated by our own national morality which does not desecrate the dead. That our enemies do not abide by the laws of war is still not justfication for us to stoop to their level, and only makes them that much stronger in comparison. The conduct of war is stewarded by our military, and they defend our national honor every time they hold the moral high ground in combat.

[wreckhog]

But the classic example of desecration of the dead would be Pershing aka US military?

http://seanlinnane.blogspot.com/2009/12/general-blackjack-pershing.html

[billy_56081]

I'm still hoping it hurt really bad before he died.

[powderman]

Keeping them incarcerated for life at the national average of $100,00 in an air conditioned cell with color TV, is not justice. Especially to the victims family.


NW_HUNTER. Not counting free meals, free medical care, no electric bill or water bill, no gas bill no taxes to pay, and their clothes are free too. I believe federal law demands cable too.
TEAMNELSON. I understand what you are saying but I worked in a liquor store for over 8 years and learned quickly that  in order to stay in control I had to speak  in a language and act in a manner that they understood. Otherwise they would of walked all over me. POWDERMAN. 

[teamnelson]

But the classic example of desecration of the dead would be Pershing aka US military?

http://seanlinnane.blogspot.com/2009/12/general-blackjack-pershing.html

Given the sheer number of military operations and opportunities to desecrate a body, the fact that it's been done on rare occasion should not be shocking, and in no way demonstrates a policy or practice. In fact, his action have been censured and condemned by thousands of officers since. Are you willing to hold yourself up to a standard of sinless perfection? All I've offered is what the standard is, and to which standard we hold ourselves.

Do you have a thought of your own, or are you solely defined by your criticisms of the posts of others?

[billy_56081]

TN many soldiers have kept "trophies" from their kills. Happened in every war.

[wreckhog]

TN, Pershing's actions seem to be heralded by many on this board, and those on many other similar political boards. And in bars, gun clubs, family picnics, weddings, etc. That link (from the blog of a former US Special Forces career NCO) I posted gives you a sense of what I see. The censure does not seem to have impacted his esteem among military veterans. Just the opposite I would say. That is why I brought it up. So what you are saying is that you condemn those actions, as does the US military (except for that NCO of course)? If so, I concur.

[powderman]

PERSHING treated them in the only way they could be made to understand. Crude, maybe, effective?? You bet. Sometime you just have to do whatever is necessary to stop the scum. If that means rolling in the mud to make the point and end hostilities, so be it. POWDERMAN. 

[teamnelson]

TN many soldiers have kept "trophies" from their kills. Happened in every war.

And its morally and ethically wrong to do so, as well as a violation of UCMJ. That it was done does not mean it was right.

Its an embarrassment to the military establishment, as the caretakers of the nation's honor, to have our image defined by the very atrocities we object to, and die to prevent from happening to others. I recognize that there are many here who believe there should be no rules to war, that our enemies deserve no consideration. That is not our heritage, not our morality, definitely not in keeping with Christian ethos, and a violation of the laws we place ourselves under as those who fight our nation's battles. How we wage war is truly more important than the reasons for going into war in the first place, as it defines all future engagements with all future potential enemies, and gives the people back home something to be proud of. As a citizen, I want to be proud of my military, especially when I am not particularly proud of my elected representation, as the military is made up of my children and grandchildren who volunteered to defend us against all enemies foreign and domestic.

[billy_56081]

TN many soldiers have kept "trophies" from their kills. Happened in every war.

And its morally and ethically wrong to do so, as well as a violation of UCMJ. That it was done does not mean it was right.

Its an embarrassment to the military establishment, as the caretakers of the nation's honor, to have our image defined by the very atrocities we object to, and die to prevent from happening to others. I recognize that there are many here who believe there should be no rules to war, that our enemies deserve no consideration. That is not our heritage, not our morality, definitely not in keeping with Christian ethos, and a violation of the laws we place ourselves under as those who fight our nation's battles. How we wage war is truly more important than the reasons for going into war in the first place, as it defines all future engagements with all future potential enemies, and gives the people back home something to be proud of. As a citizen, I want to be proud of my military, especially when I am not particularly proud of my elected representation, as the military is made up of my children and grandchildren who volunteered to defend us against all enemies foreign and domestic.

Me too, my youngest leaves Sunday for training and then to Kuwait with the MN national guard. Keep her in your prayers.



She also plays TAPS for the VFW and American Legion, this was her on memorial day.

[teamnelson]

TN, Pershing's actions seem to be heralded by many on this board, and those on many other similar political boards. And in bars, gun clubs, family picnics, weddings, etc. That link (from the blog of a former US Special Forces career NCO) I posted gives you a sense of what I see. The censure does not seem to have impacted his esteem among military veterans. Just the opposite I would say. That is why I brought it up. So what you are saying is that you condemn those actions, as does the US military (except for that NCO of course)? If so, I concur.

The US military has always operated under the rule of Law (UCMJ), and has held itself to a higher standard of behavior than that of the citizenry. Evils committed under the guise of necessity are still evils. Honor, good order and discipline are actually upheld by the Commanding Officer which is why a servicemember can be punished by Non-Judicial Punishment without any evidence other than the determination of the CO of guilt.

In every situation, I try hard not to define a group by the acts of an individual, no matter how significant to that group the particular individual might be.

[teamnelson]

Me too, my youngest leaves Sunday for training and then to Kuwait with the MN national guard. Keep her in your prayers.



She also plays TAPS for the VFW and American Legion, this was her on memorial day.

billy, I will be praying! My oldest reported to her first command yesterday. She'll be getting her Bluenose this summer (for all you non-seafaring types, that's sailing above the Arctic circle.)

[beerbelly]

And its morally and ethically wrong to do so, as well as a violation of UCMJ. That it was done does not mean it was right.

Its an embarrassment to the military establishment, as the caretakers of the nation's honor, to have our image defined by the very atrocities we object to, and die to prevent from happening to others. I recognize that there are many here who believe there should be no rules to war, that our enemies deserve no consideration. That is not our heritage, not our morality, definitely not in keeping with Christian ethos, and a violation of the laws we place ourselves under as those who fight our nation's battles. How we wage war is truly more important than the reasons for going into war in the first place, as it defines all future engagements with all future potential enemies, and gives the people back home something to be proud of. As a citizen, I want to be proud of my military, especially when I am not particularly proud of my elected representation, as the military is made up of my children and grandchildren who volunteered to defend us against all enemies foreign and domestic.

All I have to say about that is BS! But then you are a non combatant!

[ironglow]

Wreckhog says;
  " And if we raped anyone parking in front of a fire hydrant, that would deter them from doing it again. What is your point? So you say the pig is directed at the crime of being Muslim, not the crime of being a terrorist".

  Wreckhog;
   What in *&%$@&* blazes are you talking about ?

     Beerbelly characterizes the military as "caretakers of the nation's honor"...  I wish the senate, house and prez would catch that fever..  Anybody agreed with that ?

   Billy, TM;
  Prayers wil be regular, thanks for your great contribution..  Ironglow

[OldSchoolRanger]

I know this thread is old, but I figured that I would wait until all the hub-bub in the news died down about who should get the credit for getting Osama bin Laden.
Just for the record:

If you remember a little less than two years ago Obama's administration actually charged and attempted to court-martial 3 Navy Seals from Seal Team Six, when a terrorist suspect they captured, complained they had punched him during the take down and bloodied his nose. His administration further commented how brutal they were. The left were calling them Nazi's and Baby Killers.

Now all of a sudden the very brave men they vilified, are now heroes when they make his administration look good in the eyes of the public. Obama just happened to be the one in office when the CIA finally found the b**tard and our sailors took him out. 

[SHOOTALL]

TN, Pershing's actions seem to be heralded by many on this board, and those on many other similar political boards. And in bars, gun clubs, family picnics, weddings, etc. That link (from the blog of a former US Special Forces career NCO) I posted gives you a sense of what I see. The censure does not seem to have impacted his esteem among military veterans. Just the opposite I would say. That is why I brought it up. So what you are saying is that you condemn those actions, as does the US military (except for that NCO of course)? If so, I concur.

The US military has always operated under the rule of Law (UCMJ), and has held itself to a higher standard of behavior than that of the citizenry. Evils committed under the guise of necessity are still evils. Honor, good order and discipline are actually upheld by the Commanding Officer which is why a servicemember can be punished by Non-Judicial Punishment without any evidence other than the determination of the CO of guilt.

In every situation, I try hard not to define a group by the acts of an individual, no matter how significant to that group the particular individual might be.

The War of Succesion and Indian wars omited ? Just asking .

[Junior1942]

>Obama just happened to be the one in office when the CIA finally found the b**tard and our sailors took him out. 

No, he's the one who told the FBI and the CIA to share information and cooperate with each other or else. He's also the one who didn't micromanage the OBL hunt from the White House.

[BUGEYE]

junior, do you still believe in the easter bunny?  the easter bunny story is more plausible than obama being patriotic.  him giving the okay was all about 2012 and wanting to be reelected.

[Junior1942]

junior, do you still believe in the easter bunny?  the easter bunny story is more plausible than obama being patriotic.  him giving the okay was all about 2012 and wanting to be reelected.

BS.  Unadulterated.  Stinky. 

[billy_56081]

Some of my old military buddies say old Bin was killed before they notified BO of the op. Story goes that BO refused to allow the team a kill op, but when confronted with the op was over and Bin was dead BO had to save face.