458 Lott

[hansg/Ups]

I'm thinking of getting a rifle in 458 Lott:bolt action or single shot,probably 24" heavy barrel.
Any comments re the cartridge in general,effective range,quirks,etc.?
Thanks for the help

[GeneRector]

  Howdy! What do you plan to hunt with it?  I have heard that it can be downloaded and used for even deer sized game. However, it is still a big caliber safari type cartridge. Best of Luck!  Gene

[mauserand9mm]

The 458 Lott is what the 458 WM was supposed to be. The Lott was developed because there were issues with the WM:

1. The powders available with the WM came out resulted in compressed loads and over time and travel the projectiles would work their way out of the case or at least enough to loosen up and risk coming out at the wrong time.

2. The WM is really too short for the diameter of the case and there are a few Mauser style bolt actions that have feeding issues - not good in a dangerous game rifle. The problem is that the cartridge feeds out of the magazine at a steep angle and the projectile (particularly round nose or large flat tip) can get caught up in the ejector recess inside the action. Some can be fixed and some can't.

CZ USA now only supply the 458 Lott because of the feeding issues wit the WM - about 1 in 2 have feeding issues in 458 WM (this was the same back in the days that they were "Brno"s). They now automatically convert the 458WM to 458 Lott and add the 458 Lott calibre/cartridge stamp to the barrel while retaining the 458 WM stamp (ie double stamped).

I have a CZ in 458 WM and have found a few projectiles that seem to avoid the feeding issues most of the time. The Lott will add a couple hundred fps to the 458WM velocities and has noticeablly more recoil that the 458 WM. If presented with an option to buy either and the price were the same I'd get a Lott - you can still use the WM in them without loss of accuracy, I believe. (I got the 458WM because it was almost new and was returned under warranty as a know "jammer" - so I got a big discount off the price, and the timber is reasonablly nice.)

[us920669]

The Lott is without question the way to go if you want to get the most out of this bore.  That being said, there is nothing really wrong with the WM and carefully selected handloads, depending on the intended application.  The concerns with the cartridge cited in Post 2 were mentioned by many early authorities, who were also disappointed that it was almost impossible to drive a 500 gr bullet at 2000 fps with factory ammunition.

I'v had one rifle in 458 WM, an older M70 that functioned flawlessly.  Of course, Winchester had better be able to make a rifle that will feed the WM.  I never did anything serious with it, but spent quite a bit of time experimenting with handloads.    I got good results with a 440 gr hard cast bullet - 2200 fps - and I'm sure I could have gone higher.  They were sized 459 and being a bit softer than a FMJ, I think they gave a bit more resistance at the throat for better burning.  At the sane time, I felt they were probably hard enough for any North American and most African game.  I did have trouble finding a good mid-range load.  Of course they went off and would have done the job on hogs or deer, but ballistic uniformity was not good, with variations of 100 fps over just a few shots.  This may not be important on close range work, but it's not something you want to see. 

[Grumulkin]

I'm thinking of getting a rifle in 458 Lott:bolt action or single shot,probably 24" heavy barrel.
Any comments re the cartridge in general,effective range,quirks,etc.?
Thanks for the help

Comments on the cartridge: substantial recoil and takes a lot of powder but what a hammer.  Use a quality scope with generous eye relief.

Effective range: effective as far as you can hit with it.  The trajectory will be pretty steep after 300 yards or so.

Quirks: point of impact between loads with different bullet weights will be substantial.  Lower priced scopes with a limited adjustment range might not permit sighting in for all bullet weights you want to use.

By the way, you don't have to down load it for it to be effective on deer, etc.  I used mine on a rabbit and it worked just fine.

[corbanzo]

I have a CZ american safari in 458 lott, and it is an excellent rifle and excellent cartridge.  It can be loaded with smaller bullets to some rather high velocities which can be very effectice at a few hundred yards. 
 
As above stated having one load can be important, due to the wide variety of bullet weights and loads available and changes in trajectory.
 
Deer type loads are easily loadable with 4895 and the like.  Big bullets at slow speeds dont do lots of meat damage like very high velocity medium sized bullets.  Due to modern slow powders (rl25,335,h1000) and firearms, the power capacity of this cartridge is huge, and it will take anything on this earth without question.  It is a rifle very capable for any medium on up game. 
 
Squirrel pelts will suffer some unneccesary damage though..... 

[Thebear_78]

cast loads with trail boss should work good for squirrels!

[bulletstuffer]

I was at the range and a guy was shooting the lott.  He was firing at the 50 yard target.  When he shot I saw a chipmunk doing back flips and hopping uncontrollably next to the target.  I assumed it was from the percussion from the lott .  I thought to myself, self I'm getting one of those boomers    As we walked over to check on the chipmunk we saw the reason for its antics.  He had a garter snake attached and he was fighting for his life!
 
I was happy to see the chipmunk escape in its life and death struggle as he saved me the trouble of having to explain the need to buy a rifle just because it could render a rodent senseless at 50 yards without even hitting it
 
Good luck and have fun,
 
Bulletstuffer

[corbanzo]

My little end quote that comes up on the bottom when i post is actually a direct quote from a friend of mine just after i bought my lott.   
 
I was actually going to buy a .375 ultra mag, and the guy at the shop said the supplier was out of them,,,, and why go 375 anyway when i can go lott?  I had no arguements to disagree with him at the time, happy customer since. 

[us920669]

Yes, your line is very accurate.  I hate to keep yakking about my African hunt - it was a pretty big deal for me - but there is a great story.  The first time I went for Buffalo I took a Ruger Magnum in 416 Rigby, a beautiful rifle but very heavy.  There is so much metal that they can be loaded far above the old data and I had mine really smoking.  Lugging the sack of cement all day wore me out pretty bad, the buff was running flat out across a creek bed and I missed him clean.  He took a huge spill, flopped end over end I think, got up and shook his head like "What he h..." and ran off.  Experienced game scouts were sure I got him good, pointing at there chests and giving high fives, but I knew better.  The bullet hit the river rocks right where he was putting his foot down and that was enough to send him sprawling.  There wasn't a drop of blood, which was good, cus I would have had to pay for him anyway.  I was plenty despondent at the time but I laugh about it now, thinking that I knocked the big bruiser down with a miss.

[txpitdog]

I've got a Ruger #1 458 Lott, and it took a little experimentation and patience, but I've finally got it to where it is fun and comfortable to shoot.  The magnitude of overkill with the Lott is so crazy that you will find yourself loading it down most of the time.  The 458wm is probably all you'd ever need, but the nice thing about the Lott is that you can load the same level rounds at lower pressure for a slower less sharp recoil.

Now, at the bench, my personal recoil tolerance with a limbsaver equipped 11lb rifle is 400gr JSP @ 2200fps.  I have a Leupold 3x, which has enough eye relief that I don't need to schedule reconstructive eye socket surgery prior to going to the range.  Standing up, however, I can very comfortably shoot full power 500gr bullets @ 2200fps no problem. 

I mainly shoot cheap 45-70 bullets, but I do have a 350gr TSX @ 2650fps load that should flatten everything on the continent from a good ways off. I say if you are interested, go for it. Enjoy!

[redleg155]

The .458 bore at ~2100 fps or a little more is wonderful.  The Lott will make this easy.  I was fortunate to pick up a CZ 602 years ago that someone had rechambered from WM to Lott and cut the chamber a bit too deep - you can imagine the price was right.  Since I had a reamer for 460 G&A (404 Jeff case necked to .458) the rechamber cleaned everything up fine.  I can tell you that the Lott will probably feed with little or no trouble.  The G&A conversion, though a really great cartridge, made the feeding (magazine dimentions) troublesome.  I probably destroyed $100 in brass dummy rounds getting it right - but it like "butta" now.
 
You'll love the Lott - about the same class as the G&A and factory ammo is out there too!  Loading cast bullets or tough ~400 grain bullets at around 1750 to 1900 fps will give you all you need for practice and most all American requirements. 
 
-redleg