Author Topic: Stainless Super Smoker .45 Huntsman (Read 4361 times)

Busta · « **on:** May 03, 2011, 07:13:46 PM »

This has been a dream of mine to have a 1:20 twist .45 caliber Huntsman. I bought a stainless 24" .45-70 barrel some where around a year ago with the intention of putting a breech plug in it. Well, it got put on the back burner until last fall when I seen a couple posts about a conversion that uses a Savage breech plug. I supplied the thimble and the Universal Power Rod, which was customized to a collapsable ram rod.

I am a sucker for brown laminate stocks on a stainless steel tip-up, and H&R/NEF never made a Huntsman with them. The wood looks so much better than the pics show. I topped it off with a Leupold Ultimate Slam in Warne rings. Now I have the exact rifle I have been waiting several years for.

They say a picture is worth a thousand words, so I should be able to quit typing now. He did an awesome job, and I think you will agree.

And since the turkeys didn't want to talk today, I even got to squeak in a quick range session this evening. This was more of a function check of what might work to weed out some things, but it looks like I have something to work with in each of these bullets. Probably the best FIRST range session I ever had? That is until that dark rain cloud went over. Kinda put a damper on things. Can't wait to really wring her out!

bikerbeans · « **Reply #1 on:** May 04, 2011, 03:00:02 AM »

busta,

That is a very pruddy smokestick! Your new gun is probably going to result in a breech plug being installed in one of my 45-70s. Looks like the sabots are showing real potential. Are you going to try any full bore diameter bullets? Keep us posted.

BB

bubba · « **Reply #2 on:** May 04, 2011, 04:16:44 AM »

nice pics and nice shooting. I am super jealous

burntmuch · « **Reply #3 on:** May 04, 2011, 05:13:28 AM »

Yeah The word jealous pretty much sums it up. Nice groups for a first trip to the range. Are you using the .458 sabots from MMP. Also , do you have a chrono, I would love to see how fast those bullet & sabot combos are moving.

Ive got a green camo lam straight comb set just sitting on the shelf just waiting for a project . I guess I need to find me a used 45/70 barrel.

PHATINJUN · « **Reply #4 on:** May 04, 2011, 06:31:15 AM »

SWEET

Kurt

Slufoot · « **Reply #5 on:** May 04, 2011, 11:09:46 AM »

Hey Busta,
That Muzzleloader sure looks nice all put together and it's a good shooter to boot!

GOOD SHOOTING!
Slufoot

quickdtoo · « **Reply #6 on:** May 04, 2011, 02:16:04 PM »

Nice!! Good work Busta!!

Tim

Busta · « **Reply #7 on:** May 04, 2011, 05:31:51 PM »

Thanks guys, I'm pretty tickled with it so far. There is some work to be done yet on load developement. This was basically a generic test with 100 gr charges and different sabots and bullets. Those 180's never shot well with heavy charges in my other White and Knight 1:20 twist rifles, so I only ran 80 gr with them to get it close wnough for scope adjustments.

Quote from: burntmuch on May 04, 2011, 05:13:28 AM

Yeah The word jealous pretty much sums it up. Nice groups for a first trip to the range. Are you using the .458 sabots from MMP. Also , do you have a chrono, I would love to see how fast those bullet & sabot combos are moving.

Ive got a green camo lam straight comb set just sitting on the shelf just waiting for a project . I guess I need to find me a used 45/70 barrel.

burntmuch,

I am using the .45/.40 caliber sabots, the .458 MMP sabots are for the .50 caliber, shooting .458 bullets. Although a .45-70 in center fire world may be a .458 caliber, as they are measured from the grooves, in Muzzleloader world caliber sizes are measured from the land to land measurement. I slugged it a year ago when I bought the barrel, but I can't remember the exact measurements. IIRC it was either .451" or .4515" at the lands, and I think .457" or .4575" at the grooves. They have very shallow rifling, which is a good thing for a muzzleloader.

I do have a chrono, and I will be getting some readings soon. Hopefully the next time I shoot it, when I have more time. I have a 24" .451 White Elite Hunter, and a 26" original Knight DISC .45 caliber, both with 1:20 twist. I have some chrono readings in my range notes for the Knight with BH209 that I could dig up if you like? They really haul with 120 grains of Blackhorn 209.

The blued .45-70's are either the 22", or the 32" Buffalo Classic. The Stainless barrel is 24".

Swampman · « **Reply #8 on:** May 22, 2011, 07:45:45 AM »

I really like it.

bikerbeans · « **Reply #9 on:** July 27, 2011, 08:18:25 AM »

Busta,

Did you have a chance to chrono the 45/40 sabots in your Super Smoker? I chronied some 200 grain 40 cal Harvestor funnel point bullets in the 45/40 crush rib sabots using BH209 this morning (chrony 15' from muzzle and no sabot hits on the instrument!).

90 Grain 1970 FPS
95 Grain 2270 FPS
100 Grain 2325 FPS

I didn't shoot for groups but the gun seems to have MOA potential @ 100 yards. It doesn't sound like an MZ either, as it sounds more like a CF rifle as there is no kaboom when this one goes off. Also, I was using Rem Large Pistol primers, not 209s. My conversion is a 22" 45-70 barrel. I am currently using a temporary breech plug until I get my hands on a Savage plug and have it installed.

BB

Busta · « **Reply #10 on:** July 28, 2011, 08:03:08 AM »

BB,

Sorry, no I haven't. These 90+ degree days really take the fun out of it. When we get a cool spell, I'll try to get some shooting in. I don't like shooting sabots in the "dog days of summer", it can take 10 to 15 minutes for your barrel to cool enough to get any reliable results. I am also itching to shoot some full bore bullets as well.

bikerbeans · « **Reply #11 on:** July 28, 2011, 10:09:53 AM »

Busta

I agree on the heat. I had to hit the range very early yesterday when the temp was in the high 60s to lower 70s. I had to stop shooting before 9AM because of the heat.

BB

csi-tech · « **Reply #12 on:** July 28, 2011, 02:52:18 PM »

Oh no, 60's to 70's???!!! Here in Tennessee it was 95 degrees at 10:30am yesterday.

kody · « **Reply #13 on:** August 24, 2011, 06:50:22 PM »

Is a .45 Long Colt a worthwhile candidate for this same approach,or is the twist wrong? Kody

Slufoot · « **Reply #14 on:** August 25, 2011, 03:03:15 AM »

Quote from: kody on August 24, 2011, 06:50:22 PM

Is a .45 Long Colt a worthwhile candidate for this same approach,or is the twist wrong? Kody

Hello Kody, the bore diameter is too small on the 45 Colt.

GOOD SHOOTING!
Slufoot

OldSchoolRanger · « **Reply #15 on:** February 24, 2012, 04:42:51 PM »

Busta,

What did you use as the basis for your "collapsible power rod"? Is it safe to assume that you used the T/C universal power rod as the basis for the ram rod?

ceadersavage2 · « **Reply #16 on:** February 24, 2012, 06:18:56 PM »

Thats a great looking shooting Iron

Busta · « **Reply #17 on:** February 25, 2012, 07:56:37 AM »

Quote from: OldSchoolRanger on February 24, 2012, 04:42:51 PM

Busta,

What did you use as the basis for your "collapsible power rod"? Is it safe to assume that you used the T/C universal power rod as the basis for the ram rod?

OSR,

Yes, that rod started out as a T/C Universal Power Rod. I supplied that as an added cost to me, because that is what I wanted. This does not have a cleaning jag, just a loading jag. Depending on what you want done, if you get the normal rod, it will have a loading jag, and be threaded for a cleaning jag.

I have only used the UPR once (to make sure it would work well) for shooting targets, and for a follow up shot while hunting. I use a range rod for all shooting, and cleaning.

Busta · « **Reply #18 on:** February 25, 2012, 08:23:59 AM »

Quote from: ceadersavage2 on February 24, 2012, 06:18:56 PM

Thats a great looking shooting Iron

Thank you. I really like it too!

OldSchoolRanger · « **Reply #19 on:** March 05, 2012, 10:29:53 AM »

Busta,

Do you have a Savage breech plug in this gun? If so, how is the "vent liner" installed? ~~Any explanation about how this is done would be appreciated.~~

Added: Please disregard, I figured it out, after staring at it for a while.

Fred McIntire · « **Reply #20 on:** March 05, 2012, 11:35:05 AM »

Quote from: Busta on May 03, 2011, 07:13:46 PM

This has been a dream of mine to have a 1:20 twist .45 caliber Huntsman. I bought a stainless 24" .45-70 barrel some where around a year ago with the intention of putting a breech plug in it. Well, it got put on the back burner until last fall when I seen a couple posts about a conversion that uses a Savage breech plug. I supplied the thimble and the Universal Power Rod, which was customized to a collapsable ram rod.

I am a sucker for brown laminate stocks on a stainless steel tip-up, and H&R/NEF never made a Huntsman with them. The wood looks so much better than the pics show. I topped it off with a Leupold Ultimate Slam in Warne rings. Now I have the exact rifle I have been waiting several years for.

They say a picture is worth a thousand words, so I should be able to quit typing now. He did an awesome job, and I think you will agree.

And since the turkeys didn't want to talk today, I even got to squeak in a quick range session this evening. This was more of a function check of what might work to weed out some things, but it looks like I have something to work with in each of these bullets. Probably the best FIRST range session I ever had? That is until that dark rain cloud went over. Kinda put a damper on things. Can't wait to really wring her out!

Busta;

Can I ask who did the conversion work on this gun ?

Thanks !

Fred

Busta · « **Reply #21 on:** March 05, 2012, 10:56:17 PM »

Fred,

Sent you a PM.

OldSchoolRanger · « **Reply #22 on:** October 03, 2012, 06:29:56 PM »

Busta,

I'm curious how your load development went with the super smoker. I've been waiting to see your range report with smoke less powders, for a while now. I kept checking this section for an update. I hope you won't keep us in suspense any longer. I figured you must have got a good load by now.

I know, I know, curiosity kill the cat, but this cat is still curious.

Jason F · « **Reply #23 on:** October 03, 2012, 11:29:00 PM »

Definately a nice looking gun. Just wondering why you are using bh209 and not regular smokeless powder. I am shooting 50 grains of imr4198 in mine with a 45-40 sabot and a 279 grain cast bullet sized at 401 with good results.

Busta · « **Reply #24 on:** October 05, 2012, 03:29:40 AM »

Quote from: OldSchoolRanger on October 03, 2012, 06:29:56 PM

Busta,

I'm curious how your load development went with the super smoker. I've been waiting to see your range report with smoke less powders, for a while now. I kept checking this section for an update. I hope you won't keep us in suspense any longer. I figured you must have got a good load by now.

I know, I know, curiosity kill the cat, but this cat is still curious.

No smokeless for me.

Busta · « **Reply #25 on:** October 05, 2012, 04:31:48 AM »

Quote from: Jason F on October 03, 2012, 11:29:00 PM

Definately a nice looking gun. Just wondering why you are using bh209 and not regular smokeless powder. I am shooting 50 grains of imr4198 in mine with a 45-40 sabot and a 279 grain cast bullet sized at 401 with good results.

Never intended to shoot smokeless, but I would at least try it if it were legal to hunt deer with in my State. Michigan only has one restriction when using a muzzleloader, and that is it.

There is a House Bill 4554 (2007) to legalize smokeless, but it has been dead in the water for 5 years now.

Brian Calley was the Representative that introduced the Bill, and is now our Lt. Governor. I guess they had/have bigger fish to fry?

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(rx1fr5vzrepy4anmw4psrh55))/mileg.aspx?page=GetObject&objectname=2007-HB-4554&queryid=21548598

bikerbeans · « **Reply #26 on:** October 05, 2012, 10:00:00 AM »

Quote from: Busta on October 05, 2012, 04:31:48 AM

Quote from: Jason F on October 03, 2012, 11:29:00 PM
Definately a nice looking gun. Just wondering why you are using bh209 and not regular smokeless powder. I am shooting 50 grains of imr4198 in mine with a 45-40 sabot and a 279 grain cast bullet sized at 401 with good results.

Never intended to shoot smokeless, but I would at least try it if it were legal to hunt deer with in my State. Michigan only has one restriction when using a muzzleloader, and that is it.

There is a House Bill 4554 (2007) to legalize smokeless, but it has been dead in the water for 5 years now.

Brian Calley was the Representative that introduced the Bill, and is now our Lt. Governor. I guess they had/have bigger fish to fry?

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(rx1fr5vzrepy4anmw4psrh55))/mileg.aspx?page=GetObject&objectname=2007-HB-4554&queryid=21548598

From my understanding of BH209 it is a nitrocellouse based powder that is low density and has something added to make the puff of smoke. So an MZ propellant is legal because it smokes when fired and not because of the source of energy for the propellant? If that assumption is correct I have some 40 year 700x & Unique that would meet the smoking requirement for a Michigan MZ.

From my own personal experience, the smokeless powders in a 45 cal MZ are no more accurate, and in some cases less accurate, than BH209. I just like not having to clean the gun after every range trip and smokeless is a lot cheaper than BH209.

BB

Busta · « **Reply #27 on:** October 07, 2012, 09:59:42 AM »

BB,

Smoke has nothing to do with it, this is what the reg says.

"...a muzzleloading rifle, muzzleloading shotgun, or a black powder handgun loaded with black powder or a commercially manufactured black powder substitute."

If one of the manufacturers had a smokeless that was safe to use in all muzzleloaders, and marketed it commercially as a black powder substitute, then by the letter of the law it would be legal. Don't see anyone stepping up to the plate.

wranglerdoug · « **Reply #28 on:** October 07, 2012, 03:01:52 PM »

Would like to know who did your conversion.Thanks Doug

Busta · « **Reply #29 on:** October 09, 2012, 04:34:12 AM »

Quote from: wranglerdoug on October 07, 2012, 03:01:52 PM

Would like to know who did your conversion.Thanks Doug

Doug,

PM sent.