Lee-menting moulds and alloying

[AtlLaw]

Last night I cast a few bullets from my newly Lee-mented 440 grain, .500 mould.  The first batch was from a melt of straight WW's.

I was really pleased with the Lee-menting process I found on the Cast Boolets Forum.     The finish on the bullets I cast was better (more shiny), bits of alloy didn't stick to the un- (drop out) coated mould, and the bullets fell from the mould as it was being opened.  The Lee-menting cured the problems I had in these areas and discussed in a previous thread.

Hi-ebber, ... and day always be a hi-ebber... 

The fill-out around the driving bands and grease grooves still wasn't as sharp as I thought it should be.     So I went on to step 2, the alloy itself, which we also had discussed previously.

I had picked up a roll of lead free 95/5 solder - darn that stuff's expensive! - and clipped it into even sections as Blake (gcrank1) had suggested.  At least I think it was Blake...    But with my memory I can't be certain about anything...     Anyway, I added some of the solder to the melt and cast some more bullets.  There was a visable improvement in fillout!   

So I'm pretty happy!  But I am going to play around some more with this alloy stuff... 

'course I did ruin a pair of dress slacks...     I really got to remember to change outa my court cloths when I get home from work and before I go down to the man cave...   

[kbstenberg]

  AtlLaw     there are 3 ways to decrease your fillout prob. The first you have already found. That is to add up to 2% tin to your alloy. I personally like to use 1% (pewter).
  Second is to increase the molten lead temperature. My suggestion would be to start at your normal casting temp. & cast a few. Increase the pot temp 20 deg. let the lead reach that temp. Cast the same amount as before. Raise the temp again the same amount, again let the lead raise to that temp. Cast the same amount of bullets. Inspect each temperature range of bullets for there quality. If you still arn't satisfied do the test all over at even higher temperatures, until you get the quality bullet you are satisfied with.
  The 3rd way is to see if pressure pouring helps fillout. If you are using a bottom pour pot. Put the sprueplate up against the spout on the pot. If you have the SP square against the spout it will not squirt all over. It will just stop the lead flow when the cavity is full.
  Sorry to be so long winded
  Kevin

[AtlLaw]

Hey Kevin!

I wish I had read this before last night when I was doing the Lee-menting stuff to a new Lee .309 170 gr. GC mould and casting bullets to lap with!

there are 3 ways to decrease your fillout prob. The first you have already found. That is to add up to 2% tin to your alloy. I personally like to use 1% (pewter).

How does the 95/5 solder sound?  I used one strand about 4 inches long (I really need to weigh that...) to 2 lbs. of WW's.  I tried increasing it a bit but didn't see any improvement.

Second is to increase the molten lead temperature. My suggestion would be to start at your normal casting temp. & cast a few. Increase the pot temp 20 deg. let the lead reach that temp. Cast the same amount as before. Raise the temp again the same amount, again let the lead raise to that temp. Cast the same amount of bullets. Inspect each temperature range of bullets for there quality. If you still aren't satisfied do the test all over at even higher temperatures, until you get the quality bullet you are satisfied with.

I was casting at about 710 degrees last night.  I'm definitely going to try your system!  It appeals to my preferred method of experimentation; use defined and measureable parameters!   

I have a bit of a problem with my Lee pot keeping the temperature steady.  When I'm casting I noticed the temp drops steadily as the melt level drops.     I was able to keep it pretty consistant last night though.
 

The 3rd way is to see if pressure pouring helps fillout. If you are using a bottom pour pot. Put the sprueplate up against the spout on the pot. If you have the SP square against the spout it will not squirt all over. It will just stop the lead flow when the cavity is full.

Another great idea to try!     I have been trying leaving various amount of space between the spout and the SP but I never tried holding it against it!     Seemed to me it would trap air in the mould... 

Sorry to be so long winded

You're worried about a lawyer thinking you're long winded!?     Thanks for the help!   

[kbstenberg]

  Lee-menting is a very good TOOL to increase the dia. of your bullet. I do not hesitate to do it to any mold i get. It cures a mold that drops a too small bullet- it smooths the cavities so the mold will drop its bullets easier. The last point is the reason i Leement my molds. It does work on any material a mold is made from. Aluminum- Iron- Brass
  As to the tin that you added to your lead. The type of tin you have is just fine. But i have several suggestions though.
  A. Pre-melt the whole spool of solder, flux it to remove any contaminants in it. Then pour the tin into something like a muffin tin, so you have small coin shaped tin ingots. Weigh each ingot an mark it in magic marker as to the weight. so that you can latter add the "coins" to your lead melt.
  B. The little you added to your melt probably wasn't enough to make a big difference. You figure at 1% you ad 1lb tin to 100lbs lead. So your 2 lbs of lead you would need 1/64th of a lb. so by that you may have added enough tin.
  I have to get off the comp. a lightning storm is rolling in. I will continue tomorrow.
  Kevin

[StrawHat]

Fill out problems can also be caused by poorly vented molds.  I am not sure what kind of mold you have but are the vent lines open?  I routinely go over the vent lines with a scribe tool (the awl-like tool in the bottom of a square) to open them up a bit.  On the molds with straight lines, I scribe alternating lines on both blocks.  On molds that are vented with a flycutting tool, I cuss a bit and scribe the lines coming from the driving bands and base.  They do not have to be deep, just open and unclogged. 

As for temp, I cast a bit hotter than many and actually prefer the frosted look on my boolits.

[kbstenberg]

  StrawHat had a good suggestion also.
  To get back to my thought. Only having 2 lbs in your bottom pour pot doesn't have a lot of pressure on the lead coming out. If you use a fuller pot the flow coming out of the pot forces more lead into your mould.
  Concerning the pot temperature. I have made a PID to more accurately retain the melt temperature at a constant. To lookup how to make one look in the stickie section under casting equipment. If I can do it anyone can.
  All the tin I have comes from pewter I have found an melted. Its a lot cheaper than pure tin. Which is running around 13$ a lb.
  Kevin

[hillbill]

im not a real experienced caster, have only done a bit for my 45 ruger blackhawk.with some success.but ive done a lot of research and reading.my findings are that if you live to be a 1000 yrs old your not gonna know everything you need to know to cast all bullets perfectly.tin helps, correct alloy temp helps, correct mold temp helps,good molds help,correct alloy for the job helps,proper diameter of bullet and barrel helps,proper lube, yu get the idea lol. just keep researching and learning!

[greenrivers]

Guys could you fill me in on the Lee-menting process you mentioned? I noted that it will increase the diameter of a dropped bullet and as several of my molds drop minimal sizes it would be helpful. I had been thinking about abrasive lapping them but don't want to round out sharp edges.
Thanks for the help.

[SHOOTALL]

I don't cast yet other than ML bullets out of pure lead. I have about 300 lbs of tire weights and a friend who is going to show me how he cast / sizes his bullets. I also have read some on the subject. and have a couple questions . Here its stated to add 95/5 tin / ant. to wheel weights which are already hard. I have read to add 95/5 to pure lead in a 20 to 1 ratio to get Lyman # 2 alloy which is good for hunting bullets. So why add it to wheel weights ? Would it not be better to add 50/50 , 40/60 or such to wheel weights ?

And yes 95/5 is expensive , glad I'm a plumber 

[StrawHat]

Leementing is basically polishing a new mold cavity (usually a Lee) to remove burrs and crud so it casts easier and drops the bullets from the cavity.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=32584&highlight=leementing

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=654&highlight=leementing

[StrawHat]

I don't cast yet other than ML bullets out of pure lead. I have about 300 lbs of tire weights and a friend who is going to show me how he cast / sizes his bullets. I also have read some on the subject. and have a couple questions . Here its stated to add 95/5 tin / ant. to wheel weights which are already hard. I have read to add 95/5 to pure lead in a 20 to 1 ratio to get Lyman # 2 alloy which is good for hunting bullets. So why add it to wheel weights ? Would it not be better to add 50/50 , 40/60 or such to wheel weights ?

And yes 95/5 is expensive , glad I'm a plumber 

Unless they have changed things 95/5 should be 95 parts LEAD to 5 parts TIN not tin to antimony.  Other than that, I can not comment as I do not use wheel weights for casting bullets.

[SHOOTALL]

They have changed things , when I started in plumbing in 1972  95/5 was 95% tin and 5% lead. Today its 95% tin and 5% antimony .

[AtlLaw]

Well, the other night I did some more experimenting with my newly Lee-mented .309 mould.  The end result was bright and shiny bullets with nice sharply defined grooves!  I'm a happy boy!   

I even dropped them from the mould into a bucket of water.  Something I've never done before.

So, a polished mould... and?  Alloy.  After reading and weighin and calculatin and scratchin my head bone and calculatin some more, I decided that my 95/5 strips are about ¹/₈ oz. each.  So 2 too 2 and a half strips per pound of WW's should get the alloy to somewhere around 2% tin.  And some antimony to boot.  Maybe very roughly a 97-2-1(⁺/-) mix?  Feel free to check my math guys!   

So, a polished mould, new alloy... and?  Temperature.  I ran the pot at a pretty constant 725 degrees.

I'm going to try to recast the .501 bullets tonight and see if the alloy/temp change makes any difference in that mould.

B. The little you added to your melt probably wasn't enough to make a big difference. You figure at 1% you ad 1lb tin to 100lbs lead. So your 2 lbs of lead you would need 1/64th of a lb. so by that you may have added enough tin.

Hey Kevin!  Your post got me thinking about the weight thing.  Thanks!     I figured using smaller numbers since I don't think I'll ever be working with a hundred pounds of lead!     Anyway, 2% of 16 oz. = .32 oz which is about ¹/₃ of an ounce per pound.  That's why I added another strand per pound to the alloy.

If I were to get one of those Lee hardness testers, can I use it to get a closer approximation of the alloy mix?   

Only having 2 lbs in your bottom pour pot doesn't have a lot of pressure on the lead coming out.

You're right!  I increasing the amount of melt in the pot and it was easy to see how that makes a noticeable difference in the flow rate.  I'll watch the melt level from now on.

Fill out problems can also be caused by poorly vented molds.  I am not sure what kind of mold you have but are the vent lines open?  I routinely go over the vent lines with a scribe tool (the awl-like tool in the bottom of a square) to open them up a bit.

Good point!  I read about doing that in the Lee-menting process and did it on the .309 mould.  But now that you mention it, I'm not sure I did it to the .501 mould.     I will before I cast anymore bullets with it though!   

This has been an informative thread for me.     I really enjoy trying something and getting to bounce the results off of people!  You guys are great!   

[huntducks]

  AtlLaw     there are 3 ways to decrease your fillout prob. The first you have already found. That is to add up to 2% tin to your alloy. I personally like to use 1% (pewter).
  Second is to increase the molten lead temperature. My suggestion would be to start at your normal casting temp. & cast a few. Increase the pot temp 20 deg. let the lead reach that temp. Cast the same amount as before. Raise the temp again the same amount, again let the lead raise to that temp. Cast the same amount of bullets. Inspect each temperature range of bullets for there quality. If you still arn't satisfied do the test all over at even higher temperatures, until you get the quality bullet you are satisfied with.
  The 3rd way is to see if pressure pouring helps fillout. If you are using a bottom pour pot. Put the sprueplate up against the spout on the pot. If you have the SP square against the spout it will not squirt all over. It will just stop the lead flow when the cavity is full.  Sorry to be so long winded
  Kevin

I have been casting for ever with a bottom pour and I did not know that others didn't put spout in the sprue plate there is no way I could hit that hole, no wonder guys have trouble and don't get a even pour.

Shootall i'm a retired plumbing contractor of 25 yrs and was a plumber for 10 before that.

Lead free came into Ca. about mid 80's I still have maybe 12-15 rolls of Canfield solder that had 3% silver ouch to buy that now, I have been dumping buckets of copper ftg. and 8" stub out at the recycler 3-4 weeks ago it hit $4.40lb scrap.

[SHOOTALL]

huntducks , I have 39 years in the trade , Still in business, taught night school and served on the code board of appeals for the court system here. Hey I have some rolls so old they are on metal spools . We have some of the silver stuff Bridget that came out in the 80's never cared for it but after using 95/5 and capping with 50/50 what can I say?  Tarmet is mostly used here now.

[huntducks]

Shootall

Same here with the metal spools my dad was a plumber.

 I cleaned out the work shop a few months ago and found some of his lead irons and a few running ropes brought back some memories, my first job as a apprentice 68 was a 20 story building in downtown LA all lead joints myself and a journeyman pre fab 80% of it, my dad had me leading joints when I was 10 I use to love it, I guess it's why I enjoy casting.

[SHOOTALL]

Yep , here we call them caulking irons and joint runners , I still have runners soaking in cutting oil just in case . I also did water main .
Remember plumber means leadsmith