farming your own

[Rex in OTZ]

the question is to power by tractor or draft animal?
was reading a old issue of Back Home Magazine was turned onto this link
www.farmingwithhorses.com
www.ruralheraitage.com

the dude with the sicle is a Bosinan they still do it the hard way in the balkans, the tall graay thing in top right is a european type haystack.

Power bailer and the old style haystack as two ways of putting up fodder for critters

the guys second from bottom are useing very old ground power sicle bar mowers with about  a 5 foot bar. 

from the age of 8 to age of 20 I spent allot of time sweeping hay bucking it to up to stacker crew like the bottom photo of the slide stacker, we eventually quit that and used a hay cage instead

[Rex in OTZ]

With high taxes dont know how they keep places anymore, I seen on tractorhouse.com they sell allot of used machinery includeing tractors, some that old stuffcan be expensive (like JohnDeere)


The Ford 2n in OH for $1495
Cockshutt 550 in AB/CN for CD$5500
Oliver 77 in MI (loader tractor) for $3500
Minnieapiolis Moline ZB in WI for $2450
Allis Chalmers G (loader tractor) in IA for $3750
IH Farmall C with mounted one row cornpicker in GA for $3500

[mannyrock]

     You've got to be kidding me right?   Over the long term, it is far far cheaper to use a tractor than a pair of draft horses.  That's why tractors took over.

      I owned a 45 acre place for 14 years.  When I got it, I bought a used John Deer 950 tractor for $6,000.   I used that tractor almost every day for 14 years, and it gave me no trouble whatsoever.  Fourteen years later, I sold the tractor for $9,000.

     And yes, I raised horses too.  (Also known as walking money-pits.) What a waste of good time and money.

Mannyrock

[hillbill]

that hay baler im guessing is powered by a gas engine of AT LEAST 40 to 60 hp. it will actually unless i miss my guess take more fuel than a diesel tractor of the same size. work horses are cool but yu have to feed and care for them year roun while the tractor is sleepin in the shed.used tractors are high, becuz the new ones are outrageous!if yu want one, get a good older one yu can work on.the smaller they are the higher the price per hp.

[hillbill]

years ago a old man prob about 80 stopped by my house and said he used to live there on my farm and was tellin me bout all the crops they raised. i asked him if they ever fished in the creek bhind my house, ill never forget his answer. he said "hell boy we was farming with horses, we didnt have no time for fishin"

[The Hermit]

Back in the fifties, I stopped one time to visit a friend on his farm in upstate new york. He had both tractors and horses. His hired boy came running down the road, all out of breath, crying. The boy said, " Billy, the horse just laid down in the middle of the road and died!"
Billy said, " geeze, thats funny. He never done that before. Go take the tractor and haul him off the road." With that done, he spit out a long steam of tobacco juice and continued our conversation.
Seeing that, I never kept horses, but always have a tractor.

  The Hermit

[sidewinder319]

I bet John Deere is a hero in the horse world.

[blind ear]

To do a straight day of heavy horse or mule work you have to have 2 animals per day. One for the morning and one for the afternoon. Both have to be fed and cared for every day of the year and both will eventually die probably in less than 10 years.

A very small tractor (20 or 30 HORSEPOWER) can do more work than several horses/mules.

 A tractor just sits and retains value when not working, without maintainance. (and you can put an air     conditioned     cab on most tractors)

ear

[hillbill]

To do a straight day of heavy horse or mule work you have to have 2 animals per day. One for the morning and one for the afternoon. Both have to be fed and cared for every day of the year and both will eventually die probably in less than 10 years.

A very small tractor (20 or 30 HORSEPOWER) can do more work than several horses/mules.

 A tractor just sits and retains value when not working, without maintainance. (and you can put an air     conditioned     cab on most tractors)

ear

air conditioned cab?yu aint farming like we do.

[blind ear]

If you are farming can till can't all summer and doing all the off season work that is necessary, real farming, you may think of "farming" differently. ear

[hillbill]

i hear ya bout how good the air con is.my problem is on the older equipment we run its almost impossible to keep a air con system working properly.the vibration and jolting going over rough ground is its worst enemy.my dad who is almost 80 came up with a uniqe solution.a small 110 generator mounted on the tractor and a window air unit stuk in the right side of the cab.looks goofy but does work.on one tractor he has mounted a rooftop air unit off a rv on it.im just not a big fan of cab tractors at all.makes it harder to get on and off when yur hooking up equipment and working on stuff.

[Hit or Miss]

At any rate, those are some pretty cool pics you have there!  I'll take a tractor anytime but, fuel will be and is a finite product. 

[Rex in OTZ]

in 1980's useing a wagon with Back board and team picking downd corn, they took getting used to the noise but they did, was fun working with animals...they do have personalities.

for the above mentioned cab induced shake n bake try one of these?

Yes its true that horses need TLC, but you have to work really really hard to get one stuck.
the ole 4 hoof drive is one the worlds best all terrain vehicles out there, also acts as a second set of eyes and ears, 1981 summers night rideing home at dusk/dark setting on fast, returning to the barns from a day of trying to remove bulls from creek bottom and plumb brush (pulleng them end of breeding season) was rideing a Bay quarterhorse guilding (9yro) rounded the corner post of the haymeddow when ole Sleepy locked up and wouldent move, couldent see much as was dark, I stepped off, right on a barbed wire gate, seems my kid sis threw it just off the side right across the cattle path were were following as she left earlyer to milk cows, Sleepy remained calm while I was able to work him out the wire gate. if that was a truck the headlights wouldent have picked up that gate laying on the ground and most likely had barbed wire wrapped round the axel for shure, nothing like laying under a truck cutting barbed wire in the dark.

Ya might be a redneck if you dont have one of these!

[Rex in OTZ]

The old days they used to bring the hay to the stainary bailer Via the buck sweep either horse or tractor powerd and the bales were all mfg in one spot, one dident have to run all over the field chaseing hay bales, In the summer we mowed in the am and put up hay in the afternoon, and mowed a patch just before dusk, the morning dew kept it from being overly dry.
Stacking was the most economical way when handling massive quantites for cattle consumption and bedding.
useally hay meddows were in the low areas where it was wet thrugh most the year (best quality and yield), some seasons the ground had standing water, other times had the water whipping up off the tires, light weight low groundpressure was the key, dragging heavy equipment across such ground was impossible, stacking hay on the knoles was the best way to do that, the dump rake could drag that hay outta the wet spots and dump it up on the high ground for the sweeps to collect and bring to the stacker crew/operator when running a roundbaler one is committed to trhe windrow wither on high ground or soggy bottom ground.
light tractors like the smaller models (40hp & less) was especially helpfull, some ranches like the Haythorn Ranch still use horses, not because they want to but because they are more flexable than tractors in soft ground situations, without tearing up the sod.

[Rex in OTZ]

well I cant wate till the ground clears of ice and snow to plant garden, so was reading one my old ag books and seems allot has changed, we went from stewards of land to masters or more to the point pimps for the mighty dollar and screw the land, my reading was they tested soil and your crops reflected what the land tested out to, in fall planting cowpeas and rye to counter act nutrents removed from soil by planting corn, I see today the area I once called home till'd from ditch to ditch and its corn every year? that sod gone its just blow sand, they just pump more fertilizer on the sand and irrigate like crazy and the nitrates leach into the water table so now they have to run a distiller to drink the well water.
They used to rotate crops and terrace and run green belts, in fall leave a row or two of standing corn for wild life and act as a snow fence, they used to raise dry land corn and use a lister to raise the furrows to collect rain water they dident disk under 120 acres (centerpivot) all 4 quarters on section after section and watch it all blow when it was dry and windy (rotary hoes were used to stop blowing) just google map sometime and see all the irrigation systems that draw water from wells in the area, instead of finessing the crops from the land ther strong armd off with little reguard for the eventual side effects of the industrial practice. also noticed seed stock comes from diffrent regions, they have bread away drought hardyness and sturdy stocks for a higher crop yeald did you know that corn is a tropical crop? I never knew that either till I read it, they have corn growing where it does not occor naturally, so they come to rely on technology to get the crops from irrigation and pesticides and herbicides ther less likely to spend as little time in that field because the cost of diesel fuel, the other entry in this forum was about keeping bees, with previlance of pesticide drift and its not very condusive to keeping bees if your down wind of a big farming operation, so if running a team of horses seems backwards? its the way the world sees agriculture they made it a business and the art of farming has been pushed to the side, ther is no balance.
My photo is from April 29th of this spring.

[ironglow]

Rex;
  Much of the equipment you have pictured(pulled by horses but operated by stationery engine) are in use by Amish farmers,  I see those various combinations in use regularly.  The lowest photo in your first post shows a rig we called a "buck rake"
  When I was but a lad and on our own farm, I observed and felt the transition from horse to tractor power. During the 1940s-1950s horse drawn equipment including ground drive units were often  adapted to tractors, simply by cutting the poles short and putting a new pintle hitch on.  Many mowers, rakes, spreaders and grain drills running around with shortened poles.
  I handled loose hay and baled hay..and as a teenager, tossed around those 100lb wire bales from a New Holland #76 baler. I started on the tough end of a "misery whip".. (two man crosscut), before graduating to chainsaws.  I have logged with horses, and dodgrd "widow makers" before I was of age to leave behind a widow. Milked cows by hand and machine..and hoisted the cans onto the truck.
   Yes, our first tractor, a Farmall "C" was heartily welcomed and unlike a horse, did not need a lengthy training period before use  and if well cared for, may yet be running today.  My dad then sold one farm and bought another, which included a Farmall "H"..a larger, more powerful tractor..that's when we started acquiring some implements designed for tractors...the labor difference was huge.
  Also in the mix was a homemade tractor, usually built from something like a Model A Ford with a truck differential & rear tires.  We called these things "doodlebugs".
   My dad also worked in a local factory  and I attended school while running his farm, so we had to get up at 3:30 AM to be able to get everything accomplished.  So, when I entered the Army at 18, fresh from the farm, while others moaned ove 5 AM reville..I was enjoying an extra 1&1/2 hours of sleep !
      One would tend to think farming by horses would not work any longer...but the Amish do it and are prospering. The farms not being bought up in my area by large, conglomerate farms are being bought most often by the Amish.

  Hope you guys didn't mind..just fun for an old man to reminisce

[SHOOTALL]

feed a horse every day , feed a tractor when you use it . nuff said

[Rex in OTZ]

Last time I bought a dump rake tooth was 1985 and they were $14 apece then.
the dump rake above is presently Mfg by a company out of Burwell Nebraska -Rowse mfg, they use a modernized tooth simular to the old horse drawn dumprake teeth the rowse replacement teeth were mfg by International Harverster.

I remember dad grumbling about hireing highschool boys at $9 a hour to help stack hay....they were very careless on equipment and allot of broken machinery, one broke the bar off a 9foot sickle mower, IH replacement bar's in 1977 were $110, and required allot to change, one had to shim the head and swap all the guards and grass board(shoe) pluse a new sickle, oil, gas, grease, sharp sickles, extra parts like those oak sweep teeth were expensive $48 ea.

that picture above of the ground power sickle mowers, them mountains in the distance are the Rockies, not a amish enclave.

[SHOOTALL]

much of the food production will go into the beast not you.

[ironglow]

  Rex;
  Here's some stuff you may be interested in.  Sounds like you are well experienced in draft animal farming but you may be able to pick up a tip or two.  Brandt Ainsworth was brought up on the farm where he now lives.....about 3-4 miles from me.  Brandt writes many articles for "Rural Heritage" and has written several numerous books on the subject.  You may have seen him on the rural TV channel if you get that. Anyway, here's the websites:

    http://www.ruralheritage.com/logging_camp/index.htm

    http://www.giddyupflix.com/detail.php?id=63

[Winter Hawk]

I've often wondered what happened to the small garden tractors you could get in the 60s and 70s.  I had a 7 hp John Deere I bought used in 1972.  It came with a 4' rototiller, snow blower, dozer blade, cart, and aerator.  And it had a mower deck.  The tiller, blower and mower were belt drive and that little 7 horse motor handled them just fine, thank you.  You could also get a sickle bar mower attachment although I didn't get one.

The Sears farm and garden catalog had their brand of small tractor like that, and Montgomery Ward did also.  I used to drool over them looking at all the attachments!  Rex, I was in Fairbanks at the time.

-WH-

[ironglow]

Winterhawk;
    I used to sell/service the Cub cadets back in the 60s.  Those were rugged tractors ..as were the John deetres, Wheel Horse, AC, Case etc. The heart of those old garden tractors was the transmission/differential.  I was parts manager for an IHC dealership back then, and the trans/diff was the big + that Cub cadets could offer.  That transmission was taken directly from the Farmall Cub..the smallest of their farm line.  It was a 3-speed with available "creeper drive" a solid planetary box which bolted to the front of the geartbox and hooked right to the shortened driveshaft.  This was for snowblowing, tilling etc.
  If I wanted parts for the transmission, I could order from either the Cub Cadet or Farmall Cub book...same part numbers.
  The others also had real heavy duty gears with cast IRON gear cases & axle  housings.  Now of course, until you go to really big bucks, the differential case and rear axle housings are light, aluminum castings.

[Rex in OTZ]

growing up my relatives were in the food production racket, Beef and Corn Hay on a big scale
I was brought up to think big was best till the Ag bubble burst in mid 1980's
There was folks back then I viewd with contempt as piddle farters that produced ther own grub and no excess, to today I've moved on and there still there piddle farting round on ther 10acres
my relatives massive farm and ranche operation torn appart and and scavanged buy bigger farms and ranches, so looking back they may have looked pitifull but they were flexable and pretty much insullated from the commercial market fluctuations because they dident need the commercial market.

Thers a investment and return on critters or equipment, the basis of this was food production for personal consumption as opposed to commercial, that said ,if you can have diverse enough plots to produce the corn/wheat/oats/beans/greens and vegatables fruit trees with out needing 30 feet of wasted space to turn a farm tractor in? as for smaller operations, Small multi use 2 wheel tractors exist in Europe and Asia, not only have held on but thrive in areas where land plots are small and economicly depressed, seen chinese made 2 wheel diesel tractors 90Hp and up.
In this day and age the cost of good tillable farmland has gone up, in some areas the taxes are opressive alone, so if a fella bought 3-5 acres mabe 8 max having a smaller tractor is a pluse, or least a horse adding to fertilizer supply to enrichen your soil base.
In this day and age one does not need a a clossal draft critter to farm a small plot, in the early 1900's they did light farming with standard size horses and some of those lite impliments are still around.


In the end you have to put backin the soil what you take out its better to make your own than buy.

www.earthtoolsbcs

www.ferrari-tractors.com/products/walking.htm

[Rex in OTZ]

I guess what Im getting at on this sight of self sustainability is in today'd age is like the age of dinosaurs, the clossial companys, banks and farm factory's are now at the top the food chain and everthing is at ther mercy, the small plot farm is like the little mammals hideing out in small nooks and crannies where the big cant go.
I just read that 90% of US domestic food production is produced by  a core of 20,000  large farms?
With the bank mortgage collapse of 2 years back and GM/Ford/Dodge all on the ropes last year, seems being big, when bad things happen the harder they'll fall
its said that chain stores lead to the death of small mom and pop stores, with Walmart supercenters poping up and killing off small diversified store's.

So if I had a mare she poped out a foal thats all good, farm tractors cannot reproduce, but they do  need cash money to maintain, where as a fella can least barter services on horse maintenance.
You can help him put up hay or barter a couple bushels of apples and oats or send the kids over to buck his hay in the barn. try doing that at a impliment dealership or walmart?

[Drilling Man]

I bet John Deere is a hero in the horse world.

  Why?  They didn't invent the tractor, they didn't even invent the plow, so why would they be the hero?

  DM

[Lost Farmboy]

The horses don't care who invented the tractor.  There heros are the ones who make a lot of them.

[Drilling Man]

The horses don't care who invented the tractor.  There heros are the ones who make a lot of them.

  That STILL wouldn't be Deere, it would be Ford and Fergueson as THEY were the folks who put the horse out to pasture by building cheap tractors just like Ford with with car's.  Deere came along later with good makreting and started selling a lot of tractor, as did Farmall.

  BTW, Deere STILL isn't the number one tractor producer in the world... but that's another story.

  DM

[Rex in OTZ]

most places are on rural water some lucky ones have wells, Pumping water options.
Some on the grid the electric submersable pump is a very efficent option the old driven sand point in sand country is another.

This is a link for windmill driven water pumps and parts.
http://www.deanbennett.com/

http://www.deanbennett.com/handpumps.htm

[Rex in OTZ]

makeing haystacks freestyle like grandpa Rex

[Rex in OTZ]

Corn, Beans, Squash 3 main staples of America predateing europeans
 tastes good and good for you and easy to grow and store
 
http://www.tigersandstrawberries.com/2011/07/01/growing-the-three-sisters/
http://southamericanfood.about.com/b/2010/10/13/the-three-sisters-corn-beans-and-squash.htm