Author Topic: Ron Paul Has Just Guaranteed He Will NOT be Elected (Read 9424 times)

MGMorden · « **Reply #30 on:** May 13, 2011, 05:25:58 AM »

Quote from: ironglow on May 13, 2011, 04:38:07 AM

People should not confuse Libertarians with Conservatives. Generally speaking; real Libertarians are fiscally conservative, but morals and values play little import in their scheme of things while Conservatives worthy of the name, wish to preserve standing fiscal, moral and cultural values,

A little condescending, but overall this isn't too bad of an assessment. Libertarians are indeed fiscally conservative (more so than even the Republicans), and "morals" typically do not play any part in their positions. When it comes to social things, Libertarians tend to ere on the side of freedom. That means they are staunchly against any form on gun control - again, moreso than many Republicans. By the same token however, their position is consistent about getting the government out of our private lives where it doesn't belong. That means that they don't oppose gay marriage, drug use, prostitution or abortion. Being completely pro-free speech they also oppose virtually every form of censorship.

Basically, they are for small government in every way. Provide enough funding for the government to keep a standing military sufficient to DEFEND us (but not get involved in peacekeeping actions that don't effect us), and enough law enforcement to arrest and detain those charged with real honest to goodness crimes (theft, rape, murder, assault, etc), but otherwise not get involved in private affairs, and certainly don't go with the runaway declaration of countless actions as "crimes".

Did you know that by percentage, the United States has a larger percentage of its population in prison than any other nation on Earth? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate). Most of these are for simple offenses like "illegal" drug use, prostitution, and other such actions that the government shouldn't have any involvement with.

Repeal the laws against those actions, release those people, let them conduct their business unaffected by government "morals", and you'll get a host of benefits. A lower association rate of actual crimes (theft, rape, murder, etc) to such activities due to their legitimization. Afterall, it wasn't until alcohol was outlawed that you saw the rise of the criminal gangs surrounding moonshine. Once it was made legal again they lost all power and standing virtually overnight. You also get taxes from their income like everyone else, AND lessen the burden on the rest of the tax paying Americans simply because you're no longer locking up tons of people in prison for simple offenses.

I don't agree with every single aspect of the Libertarian Party (I am against abortion, considering it murder, while they are not), and I do think that some of their notions are a bit too extreme (ie, a complete and total privatization of the educational system), but IMHO they have a much better strategy than either of the big two parties.

Gary G · « **Reply #31 on:** May 13, 2011, 05:27:08 AM »

Quote from: ironglow on May 13, 2011, 04:38:07 AM

People should not confuse Libertarians with Conservatives. Generally speaking; real Libertarians are fiscally conservative, but morals and values play little import in their scheme of things while Conservatives worthy of the name, wish to preserve standing fiscal, moral and cultural values, until something proven to be superior comes along.
The RINOS among the Republicans are much of the fly-in-the-ointment. It is said, and I tend to agree..

"The only ones who hate real conservatives more than the Democrats do...is the RINO Republicans".

Libertarian philosophy is based on natural rights of life, liberty and property being a gift from God. They are already with the individual and cannot be granted by government. Libertarians would not aggress against other peoples rights or property, but retain the right of self defense of their own. This was the philosophy of John Locke, Voltaire, Thomas Jefferson and most of our founding fathers. In a way, they are the real conservatives, i.e. keeping the old ways. I am not sure about the modern neocons who say "small government", but in fact are "big government" and collectivism, which is a form of marxism.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance234.html

us920669 · « **Reply #32 on:** May 13, 2011, 05:28:23 AM »

Paul is a man of principle, so he will NEVER be elected president. Congress is probably the best place for him, especially with a good committee assignment.

I think Pakistan would have tipped off bin Laden, but I also think he should have been, and could have been, taken alive. Then, instead of rooting through all the junk on his desk, we could have gotten him on the old waterboard and found out what was really going on.

A long time ago I used to slip Paul a ten spot once and a while, before I saw the huge margins he was winning by, and that got me on his newsletter list. He won because the establishment republicans were so clumsy about replacing him. This was a long time ago but as I remember it once they sent down some nitwit whose only identity was that he was Nancy Sinatra's husband - just parachuted this guy in - so Ron Paul put on a baseball cap and went to one of his rallies. People recognized him but no one said anything, and this guy is up there ranting and raving about how well he knows Texas and how well he knows Ron Paul and all the time Ron Paul is standing there smiling and nodding. Priceless.

magooch · « **Reply #33 on:** May 13, 2011, 05:45:50 AM »

Quote from: sidewinder319 on May 13, 2011, 03:22:42 AM

Calling yourself a Libertarian allows you to be a Liberal one day and a conservative the next. Taking a stand be it Liberal or Conservative takes real thought and control. Claiming the 2 party system is a failure and walking in the middle ground will not get anyone to the White House. Obama is hard Left it will take a hard right candidate to defeat him. A Libertarian is some one who is afraid to defend anything. These comments by Ron Paul are in keeping with this Political confusion.

Right on, sidewinder.

lakota · « **Reply #34 on:** May 13, 2011, 05:51:06 AM »

I find his comments interesting and I would like to see the entire conversation unfiltered and uneditied. Yes he says he would not have ordered the raid to kill Bin Laden. But he also asks if the US would have still conducted the raid and gotten away with it if Bin Laden was hiding out in country besides Pakistan. It seems to me he is pointing out the hypocrisy of how the US respects the sovereinty of some nations but not others. I will never agree with 100% of what a candidate says but I still like Ron Paul. I will still vote ron Paul in the primary just as I did in 2008.

yellowtail3 · « **Reply #35 on:** May 13, 2011, 05:58:22 AM »

I like Ron Paul. He gets a lot of things right. I can't think of any major candidate who is a better friend to gun owners. And he's a good man, too.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #36 on:** May 13, 2011, 06:05:56 AM »

Quote from: sidewinder319 on May 13, 2011, 03:22:42 AM

Calling yourself a Libertarian allows you to be a Liberal one day and a conservative the next. Taking a stand be it Liberal or Conservative takes real thought and control. Claiming the 2 party system is a failure and walking in the middle ground will not get anyone to the White House. Obama is hard Left it will take a hard right candidate to defeat him. A Libertarian is some one who is afraid to defend anything. These comments by Ron Paul are in keeping with this Political confusion.

well some people do live ''outside of the box''

i vote freedom first....even if it gives a woman a choice i might not agree with

back to topic

if we all scatter our votes over a few different issues
the democrats will stick together
and we will have OBUMER again
if ron paul is the republican candidate.....he will have my vote
in fact any republican will have my vote .....IN THE GENERAL ELECTION
people dont place enough attention on the primaries...
they only whine about the outcome

ironglow · « **Reply #37 on:** May 13, 2011, 06:13:33 AM »

I agree with Libertarians on mopst all issues they deal with. however, where I do differ is the morality/values issues. I tend to think that nations are not just entities whic are guided only by fiscal/ commercial issues. I believe all nations have a character, a character they have developed throughout their history.
Until recently (the 1960s) United States generally had a character of morals and values just a cut above most, which I always laid to the inclusion of Christian values in the formation of our nation.

I am of the firm opinion that if a nation loses it's values and descends into a maelstrom of sin and degradation..the end is near for that nation; A fact borne out many times in history.

See my byline quote (pres John Adams) below. loss of our Christian heritage and values will be the death knell for liberty and our country. That's why I choose to be a conservative... Conserve the Constitution, small govt and our Christian heritage..or lose it all !

Doublebass73 · « **Reply #38 on:** May 13, 2011, 09:11:52 AM »

Libertarians are the only ones who consistently believe in small government. The so called "real conservatives" want small government only when it's convenient for their agenda. Multi-Trillion dollars wars are just fine with them because "we're getting the bad guys". They somehow fail to see the fact that Iraq and Afghanistan were sh!thole muslim countries when we arrived and will be sh!thole muslim countries when we leave. To me it's not worth the loss of all the good men and women who gave their lives not to mention all the taxpayer dollars spent when the end result is the same.

There are over 1 billion muslims on this earth. Even if only 2% are of the radical jihad variety that's 20 million people. Do we have enough boots on the ground to kill them all or should we rethink our strategy?

Cabin4 · « **Reply #39 on:** May 13, 2011, 02:10:36 PM »

Paul is a principal based Libertarian. He tries very hard not to deviate off this course. Pakistan is a sovereign nation. What gave the US the Right to perform this unilateral invasion? That is the question Paul will ask himself. What would our reaction be if some nation launched a similar unilateral invasion on our soil? We are not at war with Pakistan. In fact, they are suppose to be an alliance partner. At least that’s what our government has told us and the world. Why could the US not confide in the Pakistan government our intel that OBL was in that compound and have them rightly take on this capture/assassination? How many billions do we give them of our tax dollars and why if we cannot count on them to do this?? These are the points to consider. Looking just at the gross impact (OBL dead) and ignoring the long term net impacts is short sighted.

I’m glad OBL is dead but ignoring the tactics is what gets us blow back from Paul’s perspective.

Pat/Rick · « **Reply #40 on:** May 13, 2011, 04:46:03 PM »

He gets as much right as the other guys. Might be in different categories, but whats the problem? YES, the government is too big, yes operating outside the Constitution seems to be the norm.

I do disagree with his statement on bin laden.

I do in sense agree with his take on drugs. Though I don't partake in the herb, how is drug use any worse than government endorsement of abortion?? You can kill a child, but don't smoke a joint?? How in the h.e.doublehockeysticks does that make sense?

jimster · « **Reply #41 on:** May 13, 2011, 04:54:25 PM »

Quote

Somehow I just don't think Jefferson would have approved of blowing a whole county "to hell" just to take out a small percentage bad element.

Then I guess we should not go to "war"...at all if we are not willing to do that right off. Somehow I don't think Jefferson would have sent soldiers all over the planet looking for a "small percentage" anyway.

My point was, if your not willing to go to war, don't go. Killing thousands of our men over long periods of time looking for a few bad guys is not working out. One American military person's life is worth more than the entire middle east. Not everyone believes that, which is why so many of our people are dead. And still dying as we speak, and even as Osama is dead. I don't like the idea of blowing up an entire country either, I likely would keep all the troops home and use them all on our own borders, something worth dying for. But if you go into a sovereign nation for any reason, you best do it fast and destroy it all...and take the spoils of war while your at it. Or don't go at all. Last time we won a war, that's how we won. Haven't seen many wins since we lost that attitude, but we sure lose a lot of soldiers while dragging our feet don't we?
As long as people think our solders lives are worth less than collateral damage in a war...you won't ever win again, my opinion.

Far as true libertarians go, they are more conservative than most any republicans out there in my opinion. The word liberal has gotton thrown around over many years, that word was stolen by the left wing socialists because it sounds better than socialist or progressive, which is pretty much communist in most people eyes. A true liberal back in the old days was very conservative and all about small government. Liberals didn't change...they just got their handle stolen from them by other people, and there are very few real liberals left.

Casull · « **Reply #42 on:** May 13, 2011, 05:42:20 PM »

Quote

Somehow I don't think Jefferson would have sent soldiers all over the planet looking for a "small percentage" anyway.

Think Barbary pirates.

powderman · « **Reply #43 on:** May 13, 2011, 07:18:40 PM »

Quote

Bush Jr was offered OBL by the Taliban in Afghanistan,,,, that is a known matter of record; all Bush had to do was present appropriate papers and they would have turned over OBL.....that is a fact.....

Not to me or anybody else but you and your godless friends. Never heard that before, definitely not true. The Afghans never had him after 9-11-01. Just more muslim propaganda. POWDERMAN.

ironglow · « **Reply #44 on:** May 14, 2011, 04:28:17 AM »

Quote from: Doublebass73 on May 13, 2011, 09:11:52 AM

Libertarians are the only ones who consistently believe in small government. The so called "real conservatives" want small government only when it's convenient for their agenda. Multi-Trillion dollars wars are just fine with them because "we're getting the bad guys". They somehow fail to see the fact that Iraq and Afghanistan were sh!thole muslim countries when we arrived and will be sh!thole muslim countries when we leave. To me it's not worth the loss of all the good men and women who gave their lives not to mention all the taxpayer dollars spent when the end result is the same.

There are over 1 billion muslims on this earth. Even if only 2% are of the radical jihad variety that's 20 million people. Do we have enough boots on the ground to kill them all or should we rethink our strategy?

So, what's the answer? Just give up ? Let the jihadists hit us every now and then ..as on 9/11 and never go after their bases in other nations ? You said yourself, there are millions out there wanting to attack us..is it a libertarian principle to just play Muhammad Ali's "rope-a-dope" and permit the jihadists hit us again and again ? How many 9/11 attacks can we withstand ?
Tell me, except they just play rope-a-dope, what is the Libertarian plan to stop the "hate America" jihadists who hide, train and financed in other countries..and do it BEFORE they hit us..

sidewinder319 · « **Reply #45 on:** May 14, 2011, 04:39:07 AM »

You can accept it or not. This nation was founded by white Protestant. They built a government around the laws taken from the King James Version of the Bible. No open use of dangerous drugs, murdering the unborn, Etc. did not and does not make you a constitutional protector. This is or was a nation of laws based on Biblical interpretations of the time. If you have problem with this call for smaller government open the streets to trash thinking and call yourself a Libertarian. Can I be more clear?

powderman · « **Reply #46 on:** May 14, 2011, 05:09:38 AM »

SIDEWINDER. Good post Sir. POWDERMAN.

Gary G · « **Reply #47 on:** May 14, 2011, 05:26:24 AM »

Quote from: sidewinder319 on May 14, 2011, 04:39:07 AM

You can accept it or not. This nation was founded by white Protestant. They built a government around the laws taken from the King James Version of the Bible. No open use of dangerous drugs, murdering the unborn, Etc. did not and does not make you a constitutional protector. This is or was a nation of laws based on Biblical interpretations of the time. If you have problem with this call for smaller government open the streets to trash thinking and call yourself a Libertarian. Can I be more clear?

This nation was founded on British Common Law, going back to the original principles from greek culture. The basis was: 1. You do what you say you will do, and 2. you do not aggress the life or property of another (property rights). The first was the origin of contract law. The second was the origin of tort and criminal law. These are the basis of the constitution and Libertarianism. 1&2 are also also the teaching of Jesus. Government today does not adhere to these principles.

magooch · « **Reply #48 on:** May 14, 2011, 05:34:52 AM »

Ironglow and sidewinder, you boys are guilty of peddling common sense. I'm not sure that is legal over the Internet.

bubba · « **Reply #49 on:** May 14, 2011, 05:38:33 AM »

Unfortuntely he guarnteed he would not be elected when he said I am Ron Paul and I am seeking the republican nomination for president

Cabin4 · « **Reply #50 on:** May 14, 2011, 06:35:49 AM »

Regardless of what we had been "founded" under. We have a Constitution and that is the law of this land. Yes, we are based on British Common Law principal based from a legal technical perspective. So is Hong Kong but they have thier own constitution even know they have been reunited with Mainland China which is Commy. Only point is, your Constitution trumps all.

ironglow · « **Reply #51 on:** May 15, 2011, 02:44:28 AM »

Quote from: Gary G on May 14, 2011, 05:26:24 AM

Quote from: sidewinder319 on May 14, 2011, 04:39:07 AM
You can accept it or not. This nation was founded by white Protestant. They built a government around the laws taken from the King James Version of the Bible. No open use of dangerous drugs, murdering the unborn, Etc. did not and does not make you a constitutional protector. This is or was a nation of laws based on Biblical interpretations of the time. If you have problem with this call for smaller government open the streets to trash thinking and call yourself a Libertarian. Can I be more clear?
This nation was founded on British Common Law, going back to the original principles from greek culture. The basis was: 1. You do what you say you will do, and 2. you do not aggress the life or property of another (property rights). The first was the origin of contract law. The second was the origin of tort and criminal law. These are the basis of the constitution and Libertarianism. 1&2 are also also the teaching of Jesus. Government today does not adhere to these principles.

These fellows, many of which were the authors and signers of our Constitution, give their view of from whence the Constitution was inspired and derived...:
http://www.spirittruth.com/index.php?p=1_4_AMERICA-CONSTITUTION-FOUNDED-UPON-CHRISTIANITY-THE-BIBLE

Below: See statement from John Adams, president #2.. who wrote a strong defense of the US Constitution;
http://www.constitution.org/jadams/ja1_00.htm

Swampman · « **Reply #52 on:** May 15, 2011, 02:50:21 AM »

Quote from: oldandslow on May 12, 2011, 12:48:59 PM

He wasn't going to be anyway.

True

ironglow · « **Reply #53 on:** May 15, 2011, 02:54:52 AM »

Quote from: ironglow on May 14, 2011, 04:28:17 AM

Quote from: Doublebass73 on May 13, 2011, 09:11:52 AM
Libertarians are the only ones who consistently believe in small government. The so called "real conservatives" want small government only when it's convenient for their agenda. Multi-Trillion dollars wars are just fine with them because "we're getting the bad guys". They somehow fail to see the fact that Iraq and Afghanistan were sh!thole muslim countries when we arrived and will be sh!thole muslim countries when we leave. To me it's not worth the loss of all the good men and women who gave their lives not to mention all the taxpayer dollars spent when the end result is the same.

There are over 1 billion muslims on this earth. Even if only 2% are of the radical jihad variety that's 20 million people. Do we have enough boots on the ground to kill them all or should we rethink our strategy?

So, what's the answer? Just give up ? Let the jihadists hit us every now and then ..as on 9/11 and never go after their bases in other nations ? You said yourself, there are millions out there wanting to attack us..is it a libertarian principle to just play Muhammad Ali's "rope-a-dope" and permit the jihadists hit us again and again ? How many 9/11 attacks can we withstand ?
Tell me, except they just play rope-a-dope, what is the Libertarian plan to stop the "hate America" jihadists who hide, train and financed in other countries..and do it BEFORE they hit us..

Please..pure Libertarians, undertake to answer my question..

sidewinder319 · « **Reply #54 on:** May 15, 2011, 03:47:51 AM »

Why the deep guilt and shame regarding the origin of the United States Government? The origin of British Common Law was the teaching of Christian theology. The idea that all men were created to be equal was translated via the Greeks. This single idea wrecked the powerful hold of despots thru out the world. This basic Christian ethic continues to destroy despotic regimes to this day. What is the shame that Americans feel about the greatest democratic system ever founded based on Christian principles? Why say no? Our government was taken from anything but White Protestants seeking freedom that was assured to them by their basic tenants set forth in the King James Version of the Bible. They have shared the fruits of this Revelation with ever suppressed nation in the world.

powderman · « **Reply #55 on:** May 15, 2011, 04:16:21 AM »

Quote

What is the shame that Americans feel about the greatest democratic system ever founded based on Christian principles?

SIDEWINDER. Real Americans feel no shame in being a Christian nation, only liberals and dems. They can't stand the thought that God has anything to do with them. Godly people are honest hard working citizens with high moral standards, Christian principals, high moral and family values, which dems and liberals do not have. It scares them. POWDERMAN.

Doublebass73 · « **Reply #56 on:** May 15, 2011, 04:32:16 AM »

Quote

So, what's the answer? Just give up ? Let the jihadists hit us every now and then ..as on 9/11 and never go after their bases in other nations ? You said yourself, there are millions out there wanting to attack us..is it a libertarian principle to just play Muhammad Ali's "rope-a-dope" and permit the jihadists hit us again and again ? How many 9/11 attacks can we withstand ?
Tell me, except they just play rope-a-dope, what is the Libertarian plan to stop the "hate America" jihadists who hide, train and financed in other countries..and do it BEFORE they hit us..

Libertarians are guided by the Constitution. They are not willing to ignore it like Obama does, Bush did, Clinton did, etc. Libertarians are only willing to go to war if it is done Constitutionally - declared by congress. That was not done in this case.

Answer these questions for me:

1. How does it make you feel when the government ignores the Constitution and writes gun control laws to "keep us safe"?
2. How does it make you feel when the government ignores the Constitution and writes laws allowing the TSA to grope women and children in airports to "keep us safe"?

Why then do you think it's OK for the government to ignore the Constitution and send our good men and women in uniform off to die in an undeclared war in order to "keep us safe"?

sidewinder319 · « **Reply #57 on:** May 15, 2011, 04:35:34 AM »

Powderman, so true. It is an undeniable fact however. Our government was not based on power given to the well born. Our system is based on the power given to the free born. Where do the liberals think this freedom originated?

powderman · « **Reply #58 on:** May 15, 2011, 04:49:51 AM »

Rons son Rand, who I voted for, made a crack about blacks and slavery and now has the blacks in a big tizzy. Seems one or the other is forever sticking his foot in his mouth. POWDERMAN.

Cabin4 · « **Reply #59 on:** May 15, 2011, 05:28:23 AM »

Quote from: Doublebass73 on May 15, 2011, 04:32:16 AM

Quote
So, what's the answer? Just give up ? Let the jihadists hit us every now and then ..as on 9/11 and never go after their bases in other nations ? You said yourself, there are millions out there wanting to attack us..is it a libertarian principle to just play Muhammad Ali's "rope-a-dope" and permit the jihadists hit us again and again ? How many 9/11 attacks can we withstand ?
Tell me, except they just play rope-a-dope, what is the Libertarian plan to stop the "hate America" jihadists who hide, train and financed in other countries..and do it BEFORE they hit us..

Libertarians are guided by the Constitution. They are not willing to ignore it like Obama does, Bush did, Clinton did, etc. Libertarians are only willing to go to war if it is done Constitutionally - declared by congress. That was not done in this case.

Answer these questions for me:

1. How does it make you feel when the government ignores the Constitution and writes gun control laws to "keep us safe"?
2. How does it make you feel when the government ignores the Constitution and writes laws allowing the TSA to grope women and children in airports to "keep us safe"?

Why then do you think it's OK for the government to ignore the Constitution and send our good men and women in uniform off to die in an undeclared war in order to "keep us safe"?

The government makes me feel sick. Ron Paul is right.