.357 Herrett

[Boomer68]

Just picked up a 10" barrel along with dies and have a few questions
Do I need to get a tapered expander for the sizer and I remember reading many years ago that the case needs to headspace on the shoulder, not the rim. Is this correct?

Also, any good starting load suggestions and do I need to create a fireforming load?

Thanks!

[Grumulkin]

A Black Wildebeest I took with my T/C Contender with a 10 inch 357 Herrett barrel using Hornady 158 gr. XTP HP bullets over IMR 4227 using CCI 250 (large rifle magnum) primers.  Mine shot best toward the upper end of the recommended load in the Hornady manual.

My procedure for making cases was:

1.  Run 30/30 cases into a 357 Herrett full length sizer die.  I didn't use any special expander.
2.  Run the formed case into a trim die, cut off with a hacksaw and file smooth.
3.  Chamfer case mouth.
4.  Load and shoot.  I used no special fire forming load.

The 30/30 case is, relatively speaking, fragile since it was originally designed for low pressure lever action loads many decades ago.  Some, I believe, use 375 Winchester brass to make cases since this brass is stronger.  It's also possible to buy already formed brass from Quality Cartridge but it's pricey.  Since it's a rimmed case, it can headspace on the rim but, you should improve case life if you size your cases to headspace on the shoulder.

[Dezynco]

Forming the first case when setting up the dies is the most tedious, but not difficult.  I do not have a separate "trim die".  What I do is lube a 30-30 case and start it into the sizing die.  I bring the sizing die down a little at a time until the shoulder is pretty close to where it's supposed to be.  Now I use the case trimmer to remove most of the neck.  Debur the case and test fit it into the barrel.  Repeat this process until you get a nice "crush fit" when you close the barrel.  Snug the sizing die down and lock the ring.  Now you're ready to start making cases!

Since you've locked the sizing die ring in place, this will also be the place where you will re-size the fired cases later.  You shouldn't ever need to go through this process again, unless you make cases for a different barrel.


You can also save some triming by cutting the cases down a good bit before you start forming them.  A drill press with a sanding disk works great.  Use a block of wood for a fixture to hold the case, just bore a hole in the block of wood that the case can just fit into.  Set the stop of the drill press so that you won't cut too much off.  Wear your safety glasses of course!

[stoky]

I'm going to disagree about the need for fire forming, although it is a PIA.
IMO, the cases should be fire formed in the first load, using the lightest load in the table, to square up the shoulder. Then the sizer die should be backed off .040". Check that the action closes without undue force and bump the shoulder back with the sizer down 1/16 turn at a time if necessary. Cases should now be head spacing on the shoulder, with much longer life than if they were to index off the rim.
I like H110 (especially for fire forming) and IMR4227 for this cartridge, I note kudos for H4227 in the latest Sierra data.
I had been shooting 200gr .358 (rifle) bullets. They were very accurate, but copper foul badly, particularly out by the muzzle for some reason. I'm going to discontinue using this load. I'm thinking of going to a 180gr gas checked .357 bullet.

[mbopp]

I've been shooting a 14" 357 Herrett for a while now. Ages ago (1980's?) TAR had modified a few T/C barrels for pressure testing and those are the loads I use. They're a bit milder and velocities are lower than Milek's or Speer's data. IIRR Hodgdon's website uses the same load data as was published in TAR.

I have a set of Pacific dies. They have a long tapered expander so no extra form die is required. IIRR Steve Herrett designed the cartridge so it didn't need a form die. IMHO fire forming isn't really necessary but I do it while practicing with the Contender. I use a cordless drill to power my RCBS case trimmer for trimming tasks.

I've shot Speer 180gr FP rifle bullets and Hornady 158gr XTP SP's. I'm trying Hornady's 180gr spire point pistol bullet now, accuracy isn't as good but it's still minute of deer. My load is 29-30gr of I4198 & LR primers. As a coincidence I also use the same powder in my 218 Bee barrel.

IIRR I read something about not using W296 powder as it could cause "ringing" in the chamber.

For cheap practice loads I use a medium Lyman .35 cal "M" die to expand the case necks. I'll load 158gr cast plain base bullets over 8-10gr of Unique. I use 35 Remington data in Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook and reduce the lowest load by 10% to start.

[Boomer68]

I really appreciate the replies. This is my first wildcat and it is always good to get tips from people who already have loaded for this round. Is it necessary to trim the cases before running through the sizer die? Haven't checked the length of my RCBS dies to see if a full length .30-30 case will go fully into.
Is IMR4227 similar to H4227?

[stoky]

Trim after sizing. Sizing might grow the case, although it shouldn't be much after the initial fire forming (if your seating on the shoulder).
IMR and H 4227s are similar, but not the same. Hodgdon's is reputedly less temperature sensitive. Use published data for the particular powder you are or intending to use.
Rumor has it that H4227 is being discontinued, so if you are going to go to the trouble of working up a load you might want to use IMR.

[Keith1]

This is the load that I have been using for about 30 years first in a 10 inch barrel and now a 14.

37 grains H322
200 grain Hornady FTX [now] before 200 grain spire point.

This load produces 1950 FPS out of my barrel. I got this load from the old HHI [Handgun Hunters International].

Regards, Keith

[giddens1972]

I have loaded the 357 herrett for about 15 yrs, and my dad loaded for it since it came out I guess.  You'll love it, and with that short barrel it oughta be a kick in the pants to shoot.  I can tell you that u might want some hearing protection even if you're hunting with it that 10" will be loud.  Of all the loads we've tried, IMR 4227 loaded at it's max usually  created the most accurate loads.  I would suggest that you try the Hornady HTP's for hunting.  Have shot several white-tails and with the velocities that the herrett produces they are NAS-TY when they hit something.  Hornady also makes a 180gr SSPB(single shot pistol bullet), that works good too.  I shot a nice buck with one of those out of a .358JDJ and it performed well.  As far as fire-forming usually a 10% reduction will work fine.  You'll find out that the fire-forming loads are just as accurate as a normal load, but I wouldnt load em top end until I got some fireformed cases.  Hope you enjoy this classic as much as I have over the years.  I had retired mine for a while but after reading these posts and reminiscing I think I will put her back on the job this hunting season.

Good Luck
John

[7-30 Waters]

One issue I ran into with my 30-30 brass is this:

Once I fireformed the case, I found the neck thickness to be more at the base of the neck.  I purchased a Forster trimmer with a 35 caliber neck reamer and that took care of my case neck thickness problem. 

I have a fairly long throat on my 15" Bullberry barrel so I would have never knew there was an issue if I hadn't started shooting bullets like the Horandy 200 grain Lever Evolution bullet or the Speer 220 HotCore.  Both of these bullets seat at the base of the case neck and prevented me from chambering the round.

Another powder you may want to consider for the Hornady 180 SSPB's is Norma 200.  Cartridges of the World 9th Edition lists a load for the Herrett and claims a velocity of almost 2200 fps with this powder.  I have a can of Norma 200 and plan on trying it this summmer.

[Junior1942]

I don't know how you guys can shoot heavy bullets at those velocities without breaking your wrist.

[mbopp]

Actually my 14" Herrett is less punishing to shoot than my SBH 44 Mag.

T/C barrels have a long throat lead in them, supposedly to allow for hot handloads. Aftermarket barrels probably have less lead in them.

[7-30 Waters]

I don't know how you guys can shoot heavy bullets at those velocities without breaking your wrist.

Shooting heavy bullets in a 15" barrel is a piece of cake.  The barrel maybe pops up in the air about 8" or so.  I find shooting contender pistols to be less punishing then shooting a big magnum rifle or big bore revolver.  No hand sting at all.

[Junior1942]

My reamed-out 357 mag 10" Contender weighs exactly 2 lbs 8.8 oz.  A 190 gr cast bullet @ 1724 fps is brutal on both ends.  That's 21.5 ft/lbs of recoil energy.  That's more than a 300 mag, and it's all against your right wrist.

[Keith1]

Junior,
     If you are having problems with a Contender's recoil try a Pachmayr grip. It really helps out tremendously.

Regards Keith

[Hopalong7]

Junior,
     If you are having problems with a Contender's recoil try a Pachmayr grip. It really helps out tremendously.

Regards Keith

I totally agree....and, the heavy Pachmayr forend helps tame it down as well.  My 10" 357Herrett is a cut down S-14 which makes it a true bull with the two forend bosses.  With Pachmayrs fore and aft it's still not exactly a pussy cat, but is not unpleasant to me and arthritus is really starting to put a crimp on my handcannon fun .
Walt