Author Topic: 1:28 9" Dahlgren  (Read 4089 times)

0 Members and 5 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline The Jeff

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 255
Re: 1:28 9" Dahlgren
« Reply #30 on: June 18, 2011, 03:52:17 PM »
Can you trickle FFFFg down the vent for fuse??

I'll need to buy some, but I'll give that a try before I enlarge the vent. I like how the vent's diameter is closer to scale, but it does make ignition difficult.

bend the ni-cr wire to the shape you want
then paint it , its not much insulation but it could be enough

Thanks, that was a good idea but unfortunately the paint melted off before the wire got hot enough to ignite the powder.  :(

I put on the 4" oak planking and enlarged the gun port this afternoon. I couldn't find anything mentioning the oak planking's width, so I scaled them as roughly 4x15. Then after I nailed them on I found totally by accident that Lieutenant John R. Eggleston mentions they were 4x12's. Although some of his other figures don't jive with other reports, so who knows. The oak has really stiffened up everything and I'm feeling a lot better about shooting it to add a dent or two after I add the metal.

The next problem is the sheet metal. As best I can tell the armor was 2x8 so that'd work out to .284" wide strips of 14 gauge sheet metal. I don't exactly want to try cutting out 30 strips of metal with a hacksaw, and paying someone else to make my strips will feel like cheating.  ;D



Offline Double D

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12609
  • SAMCC cannon by Brooks-USA
    • South African Miniature Cannon Club
Re: 1:28 9" Dahlgren
« Reply #31 on: June 18, 2011, 04:01:58 PM »

The next problem is the sheet metal. As best I can tell the armor was 2x8 so that'd work out to .284" wide strips of 14 gauge sheet metal. I don't exactly want to try cutting out 30 strips of metal with a hacksaw, and paying someone else to make my strips will feel like cheating.  ;D



Try a heating and air conditioning company to cut  the metal.  You are subcontracting for the material, just like they did orignal and you are going to do the final fitting and finishing. 

Offline Cat Whisperer

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7493
  • Gender: Male
  • Pulaski Coehorn Works
Re: 1:28 9" Dahlgren
« Reply #32 on: June 18, 2011, 04:18:13 PM »
bend the ni-cr wire to the shape you want
then paint it , its not much insulation but it could be enough

Yes.  "Magnet wire" is insulated with a thin coat of varnish.  (Used in winding motors, coils and transformers.)

A short piece of nicrome wire soldered to two thin pieces of magnet wire could make a thin assembly.

I'd like to develop something that would touch off the blackpowder when hooked to my 10-cap blasting machine.

Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
Cat Whisperer
Chief of Smoke, Pulaski Coehorn Works & Winery
U.S.Army Retired
N 37.05224  W 80.78133 (front door +/- 15 feet)

Offline seacoastartillery

  • GBO Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2853
  • Gender: Male
    • seacoastartillery.com
Re: 1:28 9" Dahlgren
« Reply #33 on: June 18, 2011, 04:40:59 PM »
     No wonder the Monitor's shot and shell bounced off the armored casemate!  Even with full charges behind the 170 Lb. shot, it doesn't look like more than a dent would occur.  What angle is that anyway?

Gun looks cool poking out like that!!  Great job.

Tracy
Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline The Jeff

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 255
Re: 1:28 9" Dahlgren
« Reply #34 on: June 18, 2011, 05:36:05 PM »
Try a heating and air conditioning company to cut  the metal.  You are subcontracting for the material, just like they did orignal and you are going to do the final fitting and finishing.

That's true, but somehow it still annoys me to have to subcontract out for parts on my projects. It's irrational... using mass produced nails doesn't bother me but having someone cut the strips out does. I might just get a metal cutting skill saw blade and clamp a straightedge to my sheet metal.

A short piece of nicrome wire soldered to two thin pieces of magnet wire could make a thin assembly.

Well that's genius. Here I am getting my fingers wrapped up with scotch tape when the answer is that simple. One pound of 0.0109" diameter magnet wire should appear on my doorstep soon!

     No wonder the Monitor's shot and shell bounced off the armored casemate!  Even with full charges behind the 170 Lb. shot, it doesn't look like more than a dent would occur.  What angle is that anyway?

Gun looks cool poking out like that!!  Great job.

Tracy

Thanks! The angle is 35º. After I'd started I got a bit paranoid and wondered if they meant 35º from horizontal or 35º from vertical. However, I compared my angle to a drawing of a Brooke Rifle on the the CSS Texas and it's very close. The gun deck is a bit cramped to say the least.

If I recall correctly, I've read that Ericsson had tests done with 30 pounds of powder and it would have pierced the Virginia's armor. But the Navy specified a maximum of 15 pounds due to the Peacemaker explosion.

Offline dominick

  • GBO Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (21)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1367
  • Gender: Male
    • Black Powder Cannons & Mortars
Re: 1:28 9" Dahlgren
« Reply #35 on: June 18, 2011, 06:22:05 PM »
A 7" abrasive chop saw blade that fits a circular saw will work for cutting 14 ga. plate.  You could also leave it a full sheet and just score grooves with the saw to simulate the separate strips.  Just an idea.

Offline keith44

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2748
  • Gender: Male
Re: 1:28 9" Dahlgren
« Reply #36 on: June 18, 2011, 06:30:04 PM »
for that matter, a few fiber cut off wheels and a 4" angle grinder can do the work, if you have steady hands.
keep em talkin' while I reload
Life member NRA

Offline GGaskill

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5668
  • Gender: Male
Re: 1:28 9" Dahlgren
« Reply #37 on: June 18, 2011, 06:35:29 PM »
You only need to insulate one side of it.
GG
“If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart; if you're not a conservative at 40, you have no brain.”
--Winston Churchill

Offline GLS

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 125
Re: 1:28 9" Dahlgren
« Reply #38 on: June 20, 2011, 02:32:36 AM »
I use a Bad Dog Biter to cut 14 Ga stuff.  It really works fast for me.

http://www.baddogtools.com/dotnetnuke/Tools/BadDogBiter/BadDogBiterKit.aspx


Offline The Jeff

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 255
Re: 1:28 9" Dahlgren
« Reply #39 on: June 20, 2011, 04:24:41 PM »
Yesterday I picked up a 7" ferrous metal skill saw blade from Home Depot for about 9 bucks. I wasn't expecting much, but it's held out better than I'd thought it would. I also tried an old 7" abrasive blade I had laying around, but that didn't seem to cut as nice. Anyway, between yesterday and today I've cut out 12 good strips and 3 rejects. Next I cut the strips to the right length with a hacksaw and then drilled/countersunk for the nails.

I also made an error on the gauge. I needed something 0.071" thick to be 2" in scale, and a chart I found said 14 gauge sheet metal was .074". However, the 16 gauge sheet metal I measured in Home Depot was .068" so I used that instead.

Thanks for all the advice about cutting the metal.


6 more strips to go  for this layer :o

Offline Cat Whisperer

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7493
  • Gender: Male
  • Pulaski Coehorn Works
Re: 1:28 9" Dahlgren
« Reply #40 on: June 21, 2011, 01:57:22 AM »
Ooooo Ooooo Oooooo.


That is looking SERIUOSLY TOUGH!

 ;D
Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
Cat Whisperer
Chief of Smoke, Pulaski Coehorn Works & Winery
U.S.Army Retired
N 37.05224  W 80.78133 (front door +/- 15 feet)

Offline keith44

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2748
  • Gender: Male
Re: 1:28 9" Dahlgren
« Reply #41 on: June 22, 2011, 07:46:35 AM »
really looks great!!
keep em talkin' while I reload
Life member NRA

Offline The Jeff

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 255
Re: 1:28 9" Dahlgren
« Reply #42 on: October 23, 2011, 01:09:44 PM »
Wow, I haven't done much with this project since June. I finished out the first layer of metal, and started on the second around July. Then I ran out of material and nailing on the second layer was a lot harder than the first so I gave up.


However, I recently got an urge to to work on this project again so I drilled out the vent to 1/16 to use firecracker fuses. It was a good idea Cat Whisperer, but I never did have much luck soldering speaker wire to the nichrome wire. Here's the shooting platform to date:



I also went to the gun range today to sight in my muzzle loader for deer season and I took the mini Dahlgren along with me to test. I meant to take a video of each shot, but as soon as I set it up a flock of guys came around wanting to see it in action. So I only remembered to take a video of the last shot. I think a center fire rifle went of just as my cannon did, so the report sounds a bit off.



Click to play


The first shot was 10 grains FFg and a lead .32 ball, but that made the cannon flip over when the breaching rope came taunt. I backed off to 7-8 grains and that's what you see in the video. I had a target set up at about 15 yards and hit it 2 out of 5 times. The two hits fit in a 7"x6" rectangle, so I figure that's like easily hitting the Monitor's turret at 420 yards.  ;D


Sighting these things is tough!


Offline Double D

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12609
  • SAMCC cannon by Brooks-USA
    • South African Miniature Cannon Club
Re: 1:28 9" Dahlgren
« Reply #43 on: October 23, 2011, 02:03:45 PM »


 
 

Sighting these things is tough!

with practice it is a snap!

Offline The Jeff

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 255
Re: 1:28 9" Dahlgren
« Reply #44 on: December 10, 2011, 02:23:12 PM »
I had a bit of time today so I whittled out a few implements. I made a rammer, sponge, and two handspikes out of hickory. I couldn't round up my flock of Lilliputian sheep for a scale sheepskin, so I resorted to hot gluing a strip of white felt to the end of the sponge. I'm not sure if the sponges on the CSS Virginia had a built in worm, but the ones on the Monitor did so I made a worm out of a small spring.


I also made a ladle out of a .30 carbine case, but I must have dropped it in the shop and now it's lost to the sawdust god. :'(


Next I'll find/remake the ladle head, make a roller handspike, and make some sort of "iron bucket" to transport the hot shot in. I thought most hot shot was carried around with multi handled ladles, but everything I've read said the hot shot on the Virginia was hoisted up from below in an iron bucket.





Offline The Jeff

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 255
Re: 1:28 9" Dahlgren
« Reply #45 on: December 13, 2011, 02:19:32 PM »
Decided to work on the breeching today. It's slightly longer than 3 cannon lengths to account for the slope of the casemate. I started the splice out like a molly hogan to help keep everything from flopping around... My fingers are too fat to just bend the line back onto itself.  ;D  From there it was just over one under one. A big yarn needle makes a decent marlinspike.


For the other end I doubled it back and secured it with round seizing. I used black sewing thread and a dab of super glue to keep the end from working loose.






Offline Cat Whisperer

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7493
  • Gender: Male
  • Pulaski Coehorn Works
Re: 1:28 9" Dahlgren
« Reply #46 on: December 14, 2011, 02:29:52 PM »
Jeff -

Nice detailed work!  WHERE IS MY MAGNIFIER?  That's too small for me though.
Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
Cat Whisperer
Chief of Smoke, Pulaski Coehorn Works & Winery
U.S.Army Retired
N 37.05224  W 80.78133 (front door +/- 15 feet)

Offline The Jeff

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 255
Re: 1:28 9" Dahlgren
« Reply #47 on: December 22, 2011, 11:40:46 AM »
Next I worked on getting the shackles done on my diorama. They are made from the 16 gauge armor plate reject pile. Mostly they were too narrow or the cut was too wavy to use on the armor. Each shackle consists of 3 piece. Two rings with a tail separated by a spacer. I tacked everything together with a small stick welder, filed the welds down, and painted it black. The loop on the breeching goes between the two rings and a bit of a nail drops through the shackle and secures everything.



Next I drilled a hole into the side of the ship and epoxied the shackles in place. There's not much room under there and I had to mount them low enough so the pin won't jam against the underside of the shield. As it is the pins are a bit too long, I might shorten them later.



With the breeching done it was time to test!!
The first shot was 10 grains FFFg and a wad of paper. The second was 8 grains with a .32 caliber lead ball, and the third was 5 grains with a lead ball. I hit a 1/8" piece of steel but it didn't dent it. I couldn't even find a smudge of lead. :( I was pretty sure it wouldn't go through the plate, but I at least wanted a dent!


On the first shot the flame coming out of the vent singed my shield. I doubt I can understand just how filthy the gundeck would have been after hours of fighting. Especially considering how one of the guns had the muzzle shot off yet they continued to use it. Apparently it caught the shield on fire each time they fired.



Anyway, that's all the progress so far. I guess there's nothing left but to finish the armor plates. I've been doing everything else because making the plates is really tedious. :D

Offline jamesfrom180

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 192
  • Gender: Male
Re: 1:28 9" Dahlgren
« Reply #48 on: December 23, 2011, 03:35:22 AM »
I love this project keep it up. 
AMMA Bosslopper 1988

Offline The Jeff

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 255
Re: 1:28 9" Dahlgren
« Reply #49 on: January 02, 2012, 03:08:28 PM »
Finally I've got the shooting platform done. It's made of 37 pine and oak boards, 270 nails, and 40 metal plates with 182 holes. I can see why Tredegar claimed to have "changed the position of holes in some plates three or four times and were waiting on further modifications." At least I had a drill press and could drill holes wherever I wanted them. The man in charge of building the Virginia said of the hole alignment problem that "arrangements are of the most intricate manner, and have caused me many sleepless nights."





The Virginia's shield was 28 inches thick and mine works out to 1 inch. I originally planned to shoot it a few times for battle damage, but I'm beginning to doubt my little cannon will even dent it. Possibly the way to go is to use some light .38 specials or something. Shooting it with buckshot from 75 yards or so has crossed my mind as well. Whatever I do I'll definitely test the method on some scrap metal.





Here's a picture showing what it might have looked like during the Battle of Hampton Roads:





I'm sure there will always be stuff to improve, but for now I'm calling this project finished. My next project will be a 1:28 scale 8" gun of 63 cwt on a wooden front pintle barbette carriage.


Thanks for all the kind words and advice during the build!

Offline jamesfrom180

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 192
  • Gender: Male
Re: 1:28 9" Dahlgren
« Reply #50 on: January 03, 2012, 05:59:51 AM »
very nice again I really do like your work. 

For a friends graduation he received a little seacoast gun similar to what you described.  I couldn't waste the opportunity to use a small pirate/blockade runner I had laying around.  I think you'll appreciate the perspective. 
AMMA Bosslopper 1988

Offline Microboomer

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 49
  • Gender: Male
Re: 1:28 9" Dahlgren
« Reply #51 on: January 03, 2012, 08:04:16 AM »
Thanks for sharing this project with us!  I've enjoyed the completeness of it - barrel, mounting, implements, and all.
Keep up the good work!
andy

Offline Ex 49'er

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (8)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1975
  • Gender: Male
Re: 1:28 9" Dahlgren
« Reply #52 on: January 03, 2012, 09:18:13 PM »
Great build. Thankyou for sharing the building progress with us!!!
When you're walking on eggs; don't hop!!

Offline Cannoneer

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3950
Re: 1:28 9" Dahlgren
« Reply #53 on: January 03, 2012, 11:16:16 PM »
Admirable work, Jeff; excellent build!
RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline GGaskill

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5668
  • Gender: Male
Re: 1:28 9" Dahlgren
« Reply #54 on: January 04, 2012, 12:42:42 PM »
... but would a BBQ piezoelectric push starter work ...

I have tried this and it does not work.  The black powder kernels conduct the electricity and do not get hot enough to ignite.  What has worked is some kind of hot wire; either one made from nichrome or one made from #30 copper wire.  The latter doesn't last very long but it is cheap and solders easily which the nichrome does not.
GG
“If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart; if you're not a conservative at 40, you have no brain.”
--Winston Churchill

Offline The Jeff

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 255
Re: 1:28 9" Dahlgren
« Reply #55 on: January 04, 2012, 02:13:40 PM »
I too have tried igniting black powder with electricity and had no luck. Here's an interesting website with tests and pictures: http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/sparks/sparks.html


I really haven't had any luck firing this cannon with anything but pulled out firecracker fuses, and I'm running extremely low on those. I guess I'll have to buy some FFFFg and experiment with Mike and Tracy's broom straw fuse method again.


Thanks again for all the kind words!

Offline GGaskill

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5668
  • Gender: Male
Re: 1:28 9" Dahlgren
« Reply #56 on: January 04, 2012, 02:27:07 PM »
Model rocket igniters work fine but they aren't cheap.  The hot wire also works but it is a pain on guns with small vents.
GG
“If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart; if you're not a conservative at 40, you have no brain.”
--Winston Churchill

Offline jamesfrom180

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 192
  • Gender: Male
Re: 1:28 9" Dahlgren
« Reply #57 on: January 05, 2012, 03:24:29 AM »
I ground some FFg and tried the broom-boom and was surprised at the results.  Of course the un-confined broom straw worked like a slow fuse.  When placed in any type of confining channel, small diameter pipe, vent, or soda straw the reaction was remarkably improved.  3M 77 was the spray adhesive I used.
AMMA Bosslopper 1988