Author Topic: Hope, ND CW Napolean (Read 2230 times)

gunsonwheels · « **on:** May 17, 2011, 06:19:21 AM »

This gun may have appeared here before and my apologies if it did.

My introduction to Jim Bender who keeps the National Registry of surviving CW ordnance was through CustomWagons to Lance Hites in Hope, ND to Jim Bender who added the gun to the Registry. He built the carriage (with Customwagons.com wheels) for a restoration project rescuing a Napolean out of their park which was on a cement ppillar with lots of paint. A couple URL's for anyone interested:

http://www.thebulletin.ws/webgalleries/Hope/index.html

Just received the following e-mail from Lance Hites:

Perhaps you would like to see the progress of the Army limber I have been making.
We have an 1863 Napoleon brass cannon that we take to parades in the area and always draws much interest.
This limber is a two wheeled unit with an ammunition chest that pulled the cannon and supplied the fire power.
We hope to pull it with horses in the Hope Days parade July the 16th
Lance

keith44 · « **Reply #1 on:** May 17, 2011, 06:49:56 AM »

Nice, thanks for posting.

If you get pics of the finished limber post those too please.

Keith

Zulu · « **Reply #2 on:** May 17, 2011, 01:18:39 PM »

I am especially interested in these progress pictures. A properly built limber and limber chest is very involved! There is a whole lot of work involved with the limber that you can't even see. I have built two of them and 4 limber chest.
It appears from the pictures that these are being built properly.
Zulu

Cannoneer · « **Reply #3 on:** May 17, 2011, 02:01:59 PM »

Thanks for posting the link, gunsonwheels; those are an edjucating series of photographs.

gunsonwheels · « **Reply #4 on:** May 17, 2011, 02:16:06 PM »

You are welcome but remember... I was just trying to find out if CustomWagons.com had any satisfied customers. Yup they do... I return e-mailed Lance and asked him if they are using their wheels again for the limber. I'll try to stay up to date with him and post anything that comes through.

I think we all learn a little from folks builds and research... I know I surely am/do.

Double D · « **Reply #5 on:** May 17, 2011, 03:00:51 PM »

Quote from: gunsonwheels on May 17, 2011, 02:16:06 PM

You are welcome but remember... I was just trying to find out if CustomWagons.com had any satisfied customers.

Bet he would have more satisfied customer if he offered scale dimension wheels and became a paid sponsor.

gunsonwheels · « **Reply #6 on:** May 17, 2011, 03:16:08 PM »

Okay... I'll take that "action item". Jay Jones and I are on pretty good terms, he has done some custom mods on my wheels and he has already committed to taking a hard look at "authentic looking" ordnance wheels in the smaller sizes... (check out their website... they are already making smaller wagon wheels). I'll probably need to send him some drawings... I have Lutz's #1 and #2 CW wheel drawings and am waiting on research results for more data on RevWar wheels from the British 6#er and the Verbruggen's "grasshopper" and "butterfly". Some sketches/drawings are showing a four band hub while others a two... anyone know for sure...?? I know the four band wasn't really required until they started doing a "hard" shrink of the tires which drove the spokes into the hub and caused splitting with only two bands... and I'm not sure I remember where I picked that tid-bit up...?? Getting older (more forgetful) every day......

Double D · « **Reply #7 on:** May 17, 2011, 04:37:09 PM »

Quote from: gunsonwheels on May 17, 2011, 03:16:08 PM

Okay... I'll take that "action item". Jay Jones and I are on pretty good terms, he has done some custom mods on my wheels and he has already committed to taking a hard look at "authentic looking" ordnance wheels in the smaller sizes... (check out their website... they are already making smaller wagon wheels). I'll probably need to send him some drawings... I have Lutz's #1 and #2 CW wheel drawings and am waiting on research results for more data on RevWar wheels from the British 6#er and the Verbruggen's "grasshopper" and "butterfly". Some sketches/drawings are showing a four band hub while others a two... anyone know for sure...?? I know the four band wasn't really required until they started doing a "hard" shrink of the tires which drove the spokes into the hub and caused splitting with only two bands... and I'm not sure I remember where I picked that tid-bit up...?? Getting older (more forgetful) every day......

1/4 and 1/6 scale would be a good starting point.

by Lutz plans you mean Antique Ordnance Publishers , correct? AOP!

gunsonwheels · « **Reply #8 on:** May 17, 2011, 04:41:10 PM »

Yes on AOP

gunsonwheels · « **Reply #9 on:** May 18, 2011, 01:59:59 AM »

Today From Jay Jones of CustomWagons.com:

Hi George,

Trust all is well in your little corner of the world….

We could build a cannon wheel to scale of our 30", but as far as being completely historically accurate, I would be a little concerned. The cannon wheels we sell are at least representative of civil war cannon wheels, and very close to being historically accurate, however, not necessarily museum pieces. If the customer can supply the specs, I'm sure we can do it.

Should you have questions, or if I can be of assistance, please feel free to contact me.

Thank you again George,

Jay Jones

Custom Wagons

www.customwagons.com

Yesterdays Products Today

(859) 887-9432

(859) 885-1377 Fax"

Jay's hubs, despite all their claims (advertising) to the contrary, are undersized... slightly. The untrained eye does not notice it... however... If they are to go down in scale sizes with a 14 spoke wheel, an undersized hub gets pretty busy with all the spoke interfaces... SO I would recommend they do these smaller scale wheels with a slightly OVERSIZED hub so as to enhance the probability of good integrity in the wheels. Hub bands are supposed to be tapered and pressed or heat-shrunk onto the hub so the nave box, when pressed in, combined with the spokes loading inward toward the hub when tires are shrunk on don't all combine to split the hub into kindling and splinters.

So:
How true to scale does everyone think these have to be? Would a say 10% oversizing of the hub be acceptable?

GGaskill · « **Reply #10 on:** May 18, 2011, 12:22:59 PM »

My personal opinion is that the hubs (naves) should be made from aluminum instead of wood. The bands should be turned as part of the hub, not separate pieces. The problem is that the wood grain is not reduced in scale, so its tendency to split is magnified by the reduction in scale of the parts.

Paint will hide the aluminum.

Co. Batguano · « **Reply #11 on:** May 19, 2011, 12:39:44 PM »

Couldn't you go to a tighter grained (slower growing) wood such as hickory or hard maple to achieve the scale look you want in oak? If you go to quarter sawn or even rift sawn boards the big "flames" of plain sawn wood won't be there, especially for big pieces of wood, like the cheeks.

dan610324 · « **Reply #12 on:** May 19, 2011, 01:11:14 PM »

how about juniper wood ??

gunsonwheels · « **Reply #13 on:** May 20, 2011, 06:48:02 AM »

Lance Hites e-mailed and said they are using customwagons wheels again for the limber. They are also looking for buggy wheels for a buggy restoration he's been tagged with. I'm trying to lobby him to go out to Twigg's and do them.

I figure SOMEONE from this board needs to go learn how to make wheels from Twigg who learned from DeWit, take pictures, take notes and give us a full report on the process. ... and if it were cannon wheels so much the better.

Zulu · « **Reply #14 on:** May 20, 2011, 07:12:35 AM »

Quote from: gunsonwheels on May 20, 2011, 06:48:02 AM

Lance Hites e-mailed and said they are using customwagons wheels again for the limber. They are also looking for buggy wheels for a buggy restoration he's been tagged with. I'm trying to lobby him to go out to Twigg's and do them.

I figure SOMEONE from this board needs to go learn how to make wheels from Twigg who learned from DeWit, take pictures, take notes and give us a full report on the process. ... and if it were cannon wheels so much the better.

airfare = $500
rental car 8 days @ $50 = $400
8 days La Quinta Motel @ $99 = $792
8 days food @ $30 = $240
tuition = $1700
materials for four 30" cannon wheels @ $275 each = $1100
Total =$4732

Then you have to ship the wheels back home.

I guess I won't be going.

Zulu

Double D · « **Reply #15 on:** May 20, 2011, 07:31:41 AM »

I'll chip in $50

gunsonwheels · « **Reply #16 on:** May 20, 2011, 07:44:03 AM »

$50...?? me too!!

Any others??

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #17 on:** May 20, 2011, 07:51:38 AM »

Quote from: gunsonwheels on May 20, 2011, 07:44:03 AM

$50...?? me too!!

Any others??

I'm in!

Ex 49'er · « **Reply #18 on:** May 20, 2011, 09:50:21 PM »

Quote from: Cat Whisperer on May 20, 2011, 07:51:38 AM

Quote from: gunsonwheels on May 20, 2011, 07:44:03 AM
$50...?? me too!!

Any others??

I'm in!

Ditto!

Zulu · « **Reply #19 on:** May 21, 2011, 03:54:01 AM »

It has always been one of my fantasies that everyone on the internet would send me money.

In reality, I never thought it would happen.

I have received gunsonwheels' loaner book "Wheelwrighting, A Modern Introduction".
It is close to 400 pages long and looks very interesting. I will have a close look at it and report to everyone.
It is not my plan to go into massive wheel production. That and the high cost involved in lessons (in spite of the offers to help) will probably keep me from going in that direction.
If I can get the spoke issue figured out, I may try some small scale wheels to see if I can do it.
There certainly are forum members who have the wheel making knowledge. Max Caliber comes to mind.
Maybe he could offer his input on spoke making.
The Zulu retirement trust fund is still open and will continue to accept your generous donations that will allow me even more time to screw off.

I love this forum.
Zulu

Double D · « **Reply #20 on:** May 21, 2011, 04:22:16 AM »

when you decide you want get serious about doing this you just tell me where to send the check.

GGaskill · « **Reply #21 on:** May 21, 2011, 11:31:58 AM »

Yuh know, DD, you are a lot closer to the wheelwright than Zulu is. Maybe you should take the class.

gunsonwheels · « **Reply #22 on:** May 21, 2011, 12:01:37 PM »

Maybe this makes more sense:

When I get the research done and can spec the wheels for my grasshopper/butterfly carriage for the Verbruggen, I'd like to get Twigg to do a pair of 36" RevWar wheels for it. He will be about $1500 or more for the pair. How about I put $1000 toward the tuition and $500 toward the materials and then whoever goes can make up the difference and build my wheels. With BillT. supervising the work I should come out with pretty much the same product and quality regardless of who goes. I know Zulu is more than a little passionate about the quality he turns out but I'm open for alternatives. I like to see the board membership get a longer lasting return than just GOW's wheels.

Double D · « **Reply #23 on:** May 21, 2011, 01:01:15 PM »

Quote from: GGaskill on May 21, 2011, 11:31:58 AM

Yuh know, DD, you are a lot closer to the wheelwright than Zulu is. Maybe you should take the class.

I have neither the skill nor physical ability to do the work...besides I am headed to college in the fall...

gunsonwheels · « **Reply #24 on:** May 28, 2011, 07:24:51 PM »

More LIMBER pictures of the Hope Napoleon

gunsonwheels · « **Reply #25 on:** June 07, 2011, 06:17:06 PM »

Received the following today:

We are now ready for the first parade in Finley,ND on Saturday the 11th at 11 O'clock.
Due to the late spring, Farmers with Horses have not come forward yet. We hope to
have horses for the parade in Hope on July 16.
I have 150 hrs into the cannon carriage and 136 into the limber. I was better organized
for the limber project and there is more cabinetry in the limber. I enjoyed the challenge and am
satisfied with the results.

Lance Hites

keith44 · « **Reply #26 on:** June 07, 2011, 08:58:12 PM »

Very nice!!

Double D · « **Reply #27 on:** June 08, 2011, 04:48:45 AM »

Why is it yellow?

rampa room artillery · « **Reply #28 on:** June 08, 2011, 06:10:34 AM »

nice work, very nice, but dont be to proud of your wood work to cover it up in paint,

Double D · « **Reply #29 on:** June 08, 2011, 06:17:56 AM »

I thought it was painted yellow...