6.5X55 As All-around Rifle

[hillbill]

i guess really a all around cartridge would hinge on the biggest game yu plan to shoot.for me that means a big buck deer of maybe 250lbs, a medium size black bear of 300 lbs or possibly a elk.now me bein me, i dont take any chancey shot regardless of what im shooting.if i dont think i can put it within a couple inches of where im aiming, it gets to walk free.what i like about the 6.5 is its low powder use for what it can do.and the trajectory of the low recoil gun.im not recoil shy trust me but i just hate burning more powder than i need for the job.what really sold me was when i was a big 06 fan, and still am. was when i shot a 6.5 140 grn at about 2700 fps agin a 06 125 grn doin about 3000 fps. the 6.5 dropped significantly less than the 06 at 300 yrds.long skinny agin short fat.jus my opinon as well, the 6.5, the 06 and the 270 are all the cream of the crop and cant be beat.

[Swampman]

That 125 grain .30-06 has a terrible BC.  The .30-06 needs a 180 boattail to show it's stuff.

[pastorp]

I like the 260 and shoot rem. 140gr CL in mine. But I think my favorite "all around" caliber is the 257 Roberts.   .

Regards,

[mannyrock]

     
    One thing I will agree with Swampman on is this.  The 6.5 Swede, though a wonderful round, is not an Elk cartridge.  Yes, you can kill an Elk with it, at medium to close range with a near perfect shot.  Yes, I know that in Sweden, people shoot the small moose with it.  But at what range?   Their moose hunting is all close-up stuff, probably at 100 to 125 yards. 

   So, if an all-around cartridge means that the Swede is good and consistent for Elk (even really big ones), in bad weather, at ranges up to 250 yards or so, I must very respectfully disagree.

    Yes, I know that bullet placement is everything, and that the Swede will shoot 155 to 160 grain bullets.  But I would ask you this.  If you were paying $15,000 for your once in a lifetime trophy Elk hunt, would you take a 6.5 Swede?   No. You wouldn't.   And since you wouldn't, I say that it is not an Elk gun.   

    An all around cartridge must be able to consistently take Elk (including huge bulls) at reasonable ranges, in good and bad weather, without any reasonable chance of failure, with good (but not perfect) shot placement.  The 6.5 won't.

   Folks brag every year that they have killed an Elk with a .243 or a .30-30.  Does that make those rounds an all around cartridge?

  I  believe that the .30-06 is THE all around cartridge, and that the .308 just sneaks in, using the highest quality, premium bullet, hi-energy rounds.

  Just my thoughts.

Mannyrock

[BBF]

No it doesn't prove anything except that a deer sized game only caliber kicks a little less than one that is suitable for 95% of the worlds game.  If you can't shoot an adequate cartridge, respect the game and don't hunt it.

 That wasn't even in the discussion.
 
My post was in regards to recoil. You stated the 30-06 and 6.5x55 are the same. On the quoted post you changed your mind.
 
Nothing was posted by me in regards if it was suitable for all type of game or as many as a 30-06.  I happen to agree with you that the 30-06 has more application for larger game but then again the 6.5 comes closer to being more of an varmint round then the 30-06.

[Swampman]

You stated the 30-06 and 6.5x55 are the same.

Where?

[BBF]

You stated the 30-06 and 6.5x55 are the same.

Where?

 True, you did not use those exact words. Your reply No. 23 in which you quoted Harry Snippe basically states that the 270 and 30-06 have very mild recoil similar to the 6.5x55.
Without dragging this on, IMO there is a noticable difference in recoil between those two 06 type cartridges and the Swede comparing similar weight rifles.

[Harry Snippe]

No it doesn't prove anything except that a deer sized game only caliber kicks a little less than one that is suitable for 95% of the worlds game.  If you can't shoot an adequate cartridge, respect the game and don't hunt it.

With that Said Swampy- Step up to the Plate with the 300W Mag- or then stay home .We would not just wanta hurt the poor thing !!
We are saying the 6,5x55  is no whimp out of the hot end - just to your shoulder .

[Swampman]

I have a .375H&H and the recoil isn't bad.

[mannyrock]

OK, time out.  I'll summarize.

The .30-06 kicks alot more than  the 6.5 Swede.

The 6.5 Swede is a great round, but is not really an all-around cartridge.  Too light on the heavy North American game in bad weather at ranges to be reasonably expected..

Most folks don't define an all around cartridge by its ability to handle small varmints. No the .30-06 is not a great groundhog gun, but it will certainly do.

Mannyrock

[gr8ful]

I think the question was CAN a 6.5 x 55mm be used as an all around rifle, and the answer is YES, as long as you use proper bullet selection for the game and recognize the limitations of the cartidge.  Heck the mountain men killed everything with black powder rifles and patched round balls.

[parkergunshop]

I like the 6.5 X 55 and have built and owned one.

However my idea of an all around rifle for anywhere in North America including Alaska and Canada would be the various .338 chamberings ie.  338 Winchester Mag, 340 Weatherby Mag, 338/06 etc.

For just the lower 48 States I would vote for the old faithful 30-06.

And I like the .35 Whelen a great round for anywhere in North America.

I have a hard time deciding, like too many of them,  that's why I have 14 hunting rifles in my safe.

[mannyrock]

  Well yes, of course, the 6.5 Swede CAN be used as an all around rifle.

  But any rifle, including the .223, CAN be used as an all around rifle, with proper bullet selection and proper bullet placement.  Just ask the native people in Alaska.

  And sure the Mountain Men killed just about everything with .40 and .50 caliber muzzleloaders.  And how much game did they wound and lose?  I'm betting lots.   Back then, wounding and losing game was just routine.  The Lewis and Clark expedition reported similar problems.

  The poster asked us what we thought of the selection of the 6.5 as an all around cartridge.  We are giving him our honest opinions, and if we think its a bad choice, then in all honesty we're going to tell him. 

Regards, Mannyrock

[Swampman]

[Jerimiah finds the frozen body of Hatchet Jack]

"I, Hatchet Jack, being of sound mind and broke legs, do leaveth my rifle to the next thing who finds it, Lord hope he be a white man. It is a good rifle, and kilt the bear that kilt me. Anyway, I am dead. Sincerley, Hatchet Jack."

[243dave]

Don't ya'll know that 44 thousandth of an inch will make a giant difference in killing power, making the 30-06 far superior than the 6.5x55 !!  Just ask ole Hatchet Jack.  

[mannyrock]

  No Dave, its probably that extra 60 grains of bullet weight (220 vs. 160), and several hundred foot pounds of energy that makes the difference.

  Anyone up for Grizzly hunting with the 6.5 Swede?

  No.  I didn't think so.  :-)

Manny

[gr8ful]

Don't native Alaskans kill grizzly and polar bears with .223s?  I will guarantee that a 6.5mm 140gr nosler partition with a MV of 2650 fps thru the lungs will result in a very dead grizzly bear.  Would I go on a $15000 bear hunt in Alaska with my swede? no.  But I did use it in New Mexico where a mixed bag of javalina, whitetail, mule deer, black bear and elk could be expected in a single season, along with various varmints.  That would pretty well sum up an "all around" rifle.  Extreme long range and dangerous game in my opinion would fall into the realm of specialty rifles and cartridges.

[Swampman]

It won't go through the lungs.  It will just make the bear mad.

[gr8ful]

It won't go through the lungs.  It will just make the bear mad.

If you really believe that then you know very little about bear anatomy. 

[Swampman]

You'll need more than a needle to harvest a grizz.

[243dave]

  No Dave, its probably that extra 60 grains of bullet weight (220 vs. 160), and several hundred foot pounds of energy that makes the difference.

  Anyone up for Grizzly hunting with the 6.5 Swede?

  No.  I didn't think so.  :-)

Manny

Manny, my post was more in response to Swampman's silly quotes.  But if I need to explain that energy is a poor way to measure killing power or almost identical sectional densities(.328 for 6.5 vs .331 for .308) with the same bullet construction is a good indicator of bullet penetration, I guess I can but there is volumes written on it and lots of experienced people to ask also.  I'm not saying the 6.5x55 is a better round its not, its different though and closer to the 30-06 than people think when driving heavy for caliber bullets.  Personally I think the 06 is a better round for elk and up but for deer I seriously doubt anyone would notice any difference at all and I would prefer the 6.5 for deer due to lighter recoil.  By the way if I'm hunting the true big bears I'll start with the 338 with a good 250gr bullet.
Dave 

[WyoStillhunter]

Wow!  Lively discussion we have here.

The idea of all-around cartridge in my OP goes way beyond theory and ballistics tables.  Any discussion of all-around that is not purely theoretical, and therefore completely arguable ad nauseum, must include the particulars of field application by the hunter using it.

In my case, I am finding the Swede sufficient to my all-around hunting needs.  Consider that I (1) hunt locally at minimal expense, (2) have a fair number of days in the field on a good year, (3) pursue antelope, deer, and elk in country that also supports a few black bears and a bunch of mountain lion, (4) mostly still hunt or stalk to moderate/close range, (5) can usually come back tomorrow if no game is found today, (6) can best be described as pursuing eating-sized animals, and (7) consider every animal cleanly taken by fair chase to be a "trophy."  I like to be successful but my self-worth is not dependent on trophy racks, monster bulls, or long-range, DRT, slam dunk annihilation of a wild animal in lousy weather.

The Swede is working out well for me and YMMV.  Finally, don't forget Rule #2: It's all small stuff.

Enjoy the day, fellas.

[BBF]

You can always pack a handgun with you in bear country if you figure a 6.5 isn't up to snuff.

[Dinny]

It won't go through the lungs.  It will just make the bear mad.

"The consensus among experts is that the polar bear is the largest, but some believe the Kodiak bear to be larger."

http://www.loc.gov/rr/scitech/mysteries/bear.html


This was taken from one of Chuck Hawks articles:

"The 7x57 and 6.5x55 are among the world's classic hunting cartridges, proven on all manner of game, from tiny European chamois to Scandinavian moose, arctic polar bear and all African CXP2 and CXP3 plains game. These and similar, but less well known, cartridges have even brought down more than their fair share of the African Big Four dangerous species, mostly in the hands of local farmers and professional hunters."

And another one:

"So long as the hunter does his part with regard to proper bullet placement and keeping within the limitations of range, these rounds are all that is needed for feral hogs, antelope, deer, black bear and caribou using typical 125-140 grain bullets. Loaded with 160 grain round nosed bullets, they have also killed their fair share of moose, polar bear, African lion and even elephant at close range, though such practices are generally frowned upon today."

This from a Norwegian hunting journal:

"The bulk of the polar bears which have been shot by Norwegian trappers have been taken with the 6.5 mm Krag-Joergensen, a slightly weaker version of the 6.5 mm Mauser."

This from a Cabela's talk forum:

"I have personally seen my 6.5X55 cleanly take an old cape buffalo with one shot. The buffalo never took a step and it was over."


This from 24hourcampfire:

"My friend shot a nice grizzly with a 6.5x55 (M/38) from about 50 yards. The bear stood up on its hind legs to survey the situation - the brush was about waist high - and the shot went straight into the chest. The bear turned to run away while dropping and made it less than 50 yards before giving up the ghost. The ammunition was cheap Privi Partisan soft point."


Swampy,
  I can keep quoting websites all night long that prove your statement is merely speculation. It's better to stick to the facts.

Here's a good place to start learning facts: http://www.amazon.com/Wanderings-Elephant-Hunter-D-M-Bell/dp/1571572244


Thanks, Dinny

[Swampman]

You can always pack a handgun with you in bear country if you figure a 6.5 isn't up to snuff.

Or just get a .30-06.

[Shu]

The 6.5 swede is a great all around. I live in the dessert so the 6.5 is a bit large for 95% of my hunting. When I travel to hunt, I have no problem with the 6.5. In fact I love it. It is great, mild recoil, great sectional density and the list goes on.
I don't think I will be shooting a grizzly or polar bear in the next decade and neither will 85% of the hunters on these forums. I have killed deer, antelope, elk and a mountain lion with the 6.5. I certainly wasn't under gunned. If I was to spend $ 15,000 on an elk hunt I would have no problem with the swede. If I booked a hunt like that I would ask about ranges etc and take the gun to fit the area.
 (I don't own a 30-06 and won't decry it as a great rifle either). If you live in Colorado, Wyoming, Kanasas, Nebraska etc the 6.5 would be a great rifle. If you live in Canada or Alaska you might want to go a bit bigger.
There are memebers of the forum who use a 22 hornet on large game animals where legal.
The 6.5 is a great cartridge, hopefully it will last another century.
Shot placement is very important regardless of caliber. If you own a 6.5 and think it's a great cartridge you have discovered a great little rifle.

[Barstooler]

I don't believe in such things as an "all around cartridge."

Even if I did, it would not be a 6.5 Swede.     I like the 6.5 caliber but the Swede requires a "standard length" action.  If you are going to pack the length (and the metal and the weight) then get something that drives 6.5 bullets a little faster.   --- 256 Newton, if you want to be unique, or a 6.5-06 if you want to keep it simple.

Just no need to settle for the lower velocities of the Swede if you are a reloader.

Barstooler

[BBF]

Barstooler:
There seems to be an upper limit of energy,power or performance for a given caliber. When folks want or need more they go up to the next caliber.
 Recall the .264 Win Mag.
That cartridge was about as fast as you would want to push a 6.5 mm bullet. Remington came out with 7mm Rem Mag and that was pretty much the end for the Win. round. If you didn't have enough with the 7mm Mag you went to the 30 cal cases  and so forth.
Personally I think the 260 Rem is about the upper limit for a standard 6.5 mm  cartridge.

[243dave]

The 6.5x55 swede actually has more powder capacity than the 260 and is actually not far behind the 6.5-06.  The swede's pressures are kept low by ammo manufactures and reloading manuels due to all the old and weaker military rifles.  If it was loaded to the same pressures as a 260 or 6.5-06 and fired in a modern bolt gun it would be only about a 100fps slower then the 6.5-06.  Perhaps the Old Swede is a bit better than people give it credit for.
Dave 

[1armoured]

Yes, many and varied opinions and answers.

All-round for what

Varmints ?
Thin skinned game ?
African Antelope ?
North American Big game ?
Thick skinned and Dangerous game ?

I certainly wouldn't want to face an African Buffalo with anything less than a .375H&H or a 9.3 ,
but then I was brought up in Africa, and there aren't any Grizzlies there sitting on an ice floe waiting for their terminal 6.5x55 fix ! 

I guess we also tend to use what we've got, and justify that.
The Europeans shoot Moose with the 6.5mm, because that's their standard popular calibre, inherited from the Military.

I love shooting my .22 centrefires. They cover a wide range of 'small'ish' game, probably out to 250mtrs, but I wouldn't be shooting anything larger than a Goat, Roe, Muntjac, Duiker etc with them.
I'd more settle for a .243 for the small antelope sized thin skinned game, like Fallow, Springbok, the smaller Whitetail etc, javelinas and small hogs
,.....and then we probably start getting into the optimal 6.5mm and .30cal country, in my opinion,

esp for the larger deer and antelope.
but,
Anything that is capable of stomping, goring, biting, gouging or mauling me deserves something larger than .30cal,
even if it's just for respect !!!,

but then again if you can't handle recoil, don't go there.
Stick to hunting something less dangerous.
Nothing more disconcerting than a hunter flinching and blinking when in a tight spot,
but then I guess the guide behind him with the 4 bore Elephant gun has to earn his fee !!! 

I have a lovely Sako 75 in .308 .
After years of loading Sierra's 155 and 175grs, and shooting Mil Surplus, Lapua 185 factory loads, and Federal Eagles I've just started shooting the 110gr V-Max in it for a lighter recoil load, and having plenty of fun. Accurate too. Recoil about 9/10 ft/lbs as opposed to 12/14.
Now you could class this as some sort of all-round calibre, (110gr - 180gr+) sort of a middle of the road allrounder,
but it depends what one intends to shoot with it, or what is available to shoot.

I respect the 6.5mm. Plenty of them about, esp the sporterised surplus Swedish Mausers, but I don't own one, and it's not on my 10 most wanted list.
I could use a 30/06 on big Reds, but the .308 would suffice.
30/06 seems to use a lot more powder, a large action, and generate more recoil for marginal increase in 'allroundness'.

In my opinion it's a matter of 'Horses for Courses' or....... 'Use enough Gun', as Ruark says.

cheers,
SS