.357 Handi - slow and quiet .38 special load?

[mannyrock]

Dear Guys,

       I live in a rural subdivision, with 5 to 10 acre lots.  My neighbors are very foregiving of an occasional rifle shot or shotgun boom for dispatching a critter, but I know they would get upset with any type of regular shooting.

        I have a .357 Handi, and it shoots factory .38 specials pretty well.   But, even those loads are pretty darned loud.

         I was wondering if anyone every tried to develop a slow and quiet .38 load, about 700 fps out of a rifle barrel, for occasional plinking and critter control out to about 50 yards. Yes, it would be anemic, but at 50 yards I am sure it would be fine.

        I occasionally see for sale boxes of re-manufactured .38 wadcutter rounds, for target shooting.  Out of a handgun, they are pretty good for close range target work, but are really really dirty. Maybe, this is the closest I could get to a quiet load, but I would certainly need something that shoots cleaner.

       Or maybe, this is just a dumb idea??

        Thanks for all comments and info.

Mannyrock 

[gcrank1]

Its a fine idea, but IF you ever hear a very light pop and the target doent jump or a new hole appear, make sure the bullet left the barrel.

[Dinny]

Manny,
  I like using Trail Boss for reduced loads. This thread should help you find what you're looking for.

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,208470.0.html


Thanks, Dinny

[earl54]

Google "cat sneeze"loads.Lots of choices if you handload.All should handload with the way ammo prices have gone up.Was able to buy a 5lb keg of Unique for 5$ at a yard sale(unopened),cast my own bullets,so my 44mag loads are costing me 1.5cents apiece(i have been loading for 35 years so i have tools and moulds).

[tom548]

Why go to all that trouble and have the chance of stacking a couple bullets in the barrel or worse yet blow the barrel. Get an air rifle I once saw a show were this guy took a coyote and a wild bore with a air rifle. If your critters are bigger than that I think I don't know what to tell you.  But if you still want to try light loads When I shot police combat I loaded `700x under a 158 lead bullet. These were shot in a 6" model 10 S+W.  They were very accurate and also very slow. They were used at 7 yd, 15 yd and 25 yd. I have shot them out to 100 with a lot of hold over and the would still give a nice group.  As gcrank1 said I would check barrel after ever shot id toy don't see the hit

[mannyrock]

Dear Guys,

    Thanks for all of the advice.

     I plain forgot about the risk of stacking a bullet in the barrel.   I had this happen to me once while shooting .22 CB long rounds in a rifle.  Tremendous blow back when I fired the second shot, and I just ignored it, and fired a third shot!   I guess I must have stacked one, then shot it out with the second.  My third bullet was found sticking half way out of the end of the barrel.  Only after seeing this did I realized I was stacking. Man, my knees went weak and I was drenched in sweat.  I never felt safe shooting CBs out of a rifle anymore.  Won't do it.

    I think I will explore the Cowboy load route, and see if anyone makes a Cowboy load in .38, specifically for shooting out of a rifle.  Given the popularity of the sport, I'll bet somebody does.

    Best, Mannyrock

[Dinny]

Manny,
  Don't let those guys talk you out of a good idea (reloading). Is it possible to stick a bullet? Yes, but we're not talking about a 22 CB here, we're talking about bullets that weigh 148gr or more. You'll know if it clears or not. If you're uncertain about it, look down the barrel before you load another, it's already open.


Thanks, Dinny

[gcrank1]

Ive been intrigued by the air rifles for larger game, but they are expensive; quality anything is. I can buy a Handi and make a lot of ammo for the cost of one, not to mention getting set up for the 'air' source )high pressure such as scuba tank, etc.; yeah they come with a hand pump and you do get repeat shots; for some 300 strokes though.
Spending as much on an air gun as a cartridge gun doesnt work for a lot of people, though I admit it makes a lot of sense, and I have several in smaller calibers. Until they outlaw or outprice powder fired weapons I think Id go with the muzzleloader as the last holdout in a 'big bore'.
CB's are not the thing for a longish barreled 22 rifle, unless you are careful, but in the short H&R barrel they are good; still, if you hear a 'different' report with any gun, stop and inspect!
 

[cwlongshot]

I have shot hundreds of lite bullsyee loads behind a 148 DEWCc and a 143HBWC and never had a lick of a problem. These loads while slow are PLENTY fast not to worry about them staying in the barrel!!!!!  Now if your not careful and do not chg one with powder.... The primer does a rite nice job of lodging a slug in the tube!!!  But that's the careless loaders fault not the gun ammo or loading.

While not silent by any means they are quiet as not not alarm anoyone in a home with doors closed. Even on hot summer night with windows open, the report should not cause concern.

Reloading open you to a world of possibilities.

CW

[Old Fart]

I was loading some light loads with Bluedot one time and made the mistake of using 2400 I believe.
I know, shame on me.  But anyway.
I now call this my back porch load as it's extremely pleasant on the ears and produces adequate results.
It kind of make a putt noise.
I've been firing it out of pistols only, so I don't know what results they would have in a rifle.

I'll try and find the recipe this evening. Maybe even try in in my handi.

[Jimbo47]

For your situation being in a subdivision I would definately look into a .22 caliber air rifle.   I picked up a refurbished Crossman with the new nitro piston at Sportsman's Guide for $99 a while back and it is super quiet, hits hard, and best of all, is it accurate!    Hours and hours of shooting fun, and it don't get any cheaper than that.

Now for the .357 mag.   Trail boss powder is the way to go using heavy lead cast bullets.

You'll need to get into reloading, but it's fun, and there is an initial expense of acquiring the components and dies, presses etc. but well worth it.

Like posted above you have to really be careful and make sure you don't stick a round in the bore, and it happened to me, but I caught it before I fired another round.

[Sourdough]

There is a method that is used in Europe a lot.  For some reason there seems to be a stigma attatched to it here in the states  Suppressor, more commonly known as a silencer.  $200.00 one time pay for the permit on the suppressor.  That's the cheap part.  Then buying the suppressor is expensive, but once you have one you will love it.  If I shoot a subsonic load all you hear is a soft shhhh.   If I shoot a full hunting load it's about like a .22rf.  That from a 30-06.

I live in a subdivision with five acre lots.  My property is bordered by the Trans Alaska Pipeline.  Across the pipeline is a new subdivision with 1/2 acre lots, and those people are paranoid when they hear gunfire.

Second and simplest solution, use Trail Boss and stay sub sonic.

[twoeighty]

jimbo47---can you give me some specific model # for that crossman .22 air rifle you have---i'm interested in purchasing one----anyone else's experiences  welcomed as far as other brands too---what about the 25 cal's???

280

[45-70.gov]

i use 3 grains of bullseye
behind  185 WFN  cast

800 fps in a handi and real quiet
will penetrate  22 inches of wet phone books

about the sound of a 22short in a rifle

i could go slower 
but this is the load me an my kids make for our hand guns by the hundreds

[Jimbo47]

This it the one I bought, but mine was a "refurb" meaning it was a remanufactured rifle that was returned to the factory and repaired for whatever reason, and then resold as new, but since it was a return it was sold at a reduced price.
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=753457

BTW, don't believe the 70% quieter or the 950 fps, but that said, it still shoots pretty darn quiet, and it's fast enough and packs a punch!

I don't see any referbs on sale, but here is the one I bought for $99.

It's just like the Benjamin trail but doesn't have the shrouded barrel which helps quiet the gun, but mine shoots quiet enough after about 200 shots for break in.

My trigger isn't very good, but with practice you get used to it, and I can shoot inside a dime up to 30 yards, and out to 40 yards I can keep them inside the size of a quarter.  .22 caliber is the way to go.   Easy to find pellets and they knock the snot out of anything they hit.

[tinbender]

Mornin',

Similar circumstance here. Tried a few airguns and in the end bought a .22 crosman discovery from pyramid air. I could have saved the money spent for the FX pump ( $$$) as an inexpensive paintball tank to bulk fill co2 is all I use any more. The garage door is 15' away from the kitchen window and my wife does not even here it in the house. Shoots easily 1/2" groups at 25yrds no wind, which effects pellets much more than SS .22 rimfire. The trigger was not horrible as was but was easy to lighten and smooth out. In the end it is a great rifle for home practice and worth the money IMHO.

The springers I've tried shoot more like a flintlock and require holding the sight picture after trigger release to get good accuracy. Some folks love them and  to able to shoot one well is an admired skill.

For me given the cost and limited selection of .25 pellets the .22 seems hard to beat.   


For what it's worth ....Dave

[Jimbo47]

I hate taking this off topic and onto air guns but I'll make this comment and that will be it.

It takes a different hold shooting an air gun than a conventional rifle, and it's no trick to getting one to shoot accurate when you buy one that is known for accuracy, and I'm not talking out to range of a .22 caliber rimfire.

Most use the artillery hold where the weight of the gun rests on your palm and you hold a very loose grip at the stock and you don't bury the stock in your shoulder, but just let the rifle float with the recoil.  Trying to hold a sight picture after pulling the trigger with a springer is darn near impossible.

The new nitro piston is a lot smoother and the stroke is much shorter and less harsh than a springer.

[gcrank1]

I have to agree that the 'thwack' of the 22 cal. pellet is more impressive, but the .177 is what works best for me. The high velo model .177 rifles have got more 'pop' (the higher the velo the more noise) but still no bang or super-sonic crack. My Beeman 'swap barrel' .177/.22 was $125 new, the scope was no good in the package (had parallax) so there went another $100 for a BSA real airgun scope. Highly accurate package now, head shots are no problem on small varmints. If I need more its the .22LR with CB's or Rem. Sub-Sonics.
BTW, .22 cal pellets are much more expensive here than .177 too.
Up from that, if I had a .357 H&R, would be WC or SWC 'target' handloads as were are talking about here. They are similar to the classic British Rook & Rabbit cartridges (they didnt get into the HV stuff near as much as we did), why, because that slow moving biggish bullet will do the job in good fashion.

[Dinny]

i use 3 grains of bullseye
behind  185 WFN  cast
800 fps in a handi and real quiet
will penetrate  22 inches of wet phone books
about the sound of a 22short in a rifle
i could go slower 
but this is the load me an my kids make for our hand guns by the hundreds

Is that a typo? Maybe I'm wrong (Lord knows I've been wrong before), but 22" is quite a bit of penetration for a 800fps 185gr .357 Mag load.

http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=5695


Thanks, Dinny

[Farrier Matt]

The 38 loads with Trail Boss sound like the deal. Ive got a .177 air rifle, supposed to be 1200 fps, not much less noise than a 22, and accuracy is just not their. Came with a scope, a light and laser mounted as well, but it idnt impress me. Do you have a 22 centerfire? I loaded some 22 cal pellets in my Hornet the other night with just a primer, and was kinda impressed.Very accurate and much quieter than my air rifle. Good luck in your quest.

[LaOtto222]

I started using a Hornady 148 grain HBWC over 2.6 grains of Bullseye and a Remington 1 1/2 primer. I seated the bullet down with about 1/8" sticking out of the case and no crimp. I resize the case and start the bullet in by my thumb as far as I can and the then the rest of the way with the press. I get 720 fps about 10 feet from the muzzle. It was plenty quiet out of a 22" barrel and dispatched small critters up to woodchucks quickly if shot in the chest cavity out to 30 yards or so. I wanted to stretch it out to 50 yards so I upped the Bullseye to 3.0 grains. It is closer to the 357 for a zero too. Not quite as quiet, but still not loud by any means. I get around 900 fps at 10 feet from the muzzle. I have shot lots of both of these two loads and have not stuck a single one. I have it zeroed at 25 yards, most of my shots are in the 20 - 30 yard range. I keep the gun loaded and setting by the back door to dispatch critters day or night. I added a high powered LED flashlight on top of the scope for those night shots.

Good Luck and Good Luck

[gjdykeman]

You want to shoot varmints in your back yard, check this out. Cheap, easy and good for about 30y. Accurate and whisper quiet. Fire your hi power for fun. Killed a raccoon in the back yard and I live in down town. 270 Handy. Same point of aim at 25y as with factory ammo. I sighted my scope using this before wasting a 1.00 per round. Uses nail gun cartridges. When I bought this it was available in just about any cartridge wanted.

[45-70.gov]

i use 3 grains of bullseye
behind  185 WFN  cast
800 fps in a handi and real quiet
will penetrate  22 inches of wet phone books
about the sound of a 22short in a rifle
i could go slower 
but this is the load me an my kids make for our hand guns by the hundreds

Is that a typo? Maybe I'm wrong (Lord knows I've been wrong before), but 22" is quite a bit of penetration for a 800fps 185gr .357 Mag load.

http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=5695


Thanks, Dinny

no   typo

seemed like  penetration out of proportion to me too
this  was one shot....i do need to duplicate this test again
i now have more phone books to play with
i also  want to further reduce this  load  if i can retain accuracy

[gcrank1]

Sounds like a pretty good load to me.

[cwlongshot]

You want to shoot varmints in your back yard, check this out. Cheap, easy and good for about 30y. Accurate and whisper quiet. Fire your hi power for fun. Killed a raccoon in the back yard and I live in down town. 270 Handy. Same point of aim at 25y as with factory ammo. I sighted my scope using this before wasting a 1.00 per round. Uses nail gun cartridges. When I bought this it was available in just about any cartridge wanted.

I haven't seen these in years!!  Thanks for sharing!

CW

[Doublebass73]

148 grain factory wadcutters are nice and quiet out of a .357 Handi.

[mechanic]

I have neighbors 15' away across a driveway.  A couple years ago I shot a coyote eating catfood in my backyard, graveyard dead with one shot, and the neighbors didn't even hear it.  148gr. wc over 2.9 gr. Bullseye.  Same load I use for close target in my pistol.

Ben

[Spanky]

38 special loaded with trail boss and a wadcutter. I've taken turkeys, squirrels, porcupines, etc with it. It's quiet and hits harder than you'd think.



Spanky

[cwlongshot]

I have neighbors 15' away across a driveway.  A couple years ago I shot a coyote eating catfood in my backyard, graveyard dead with one shot, and the neighbors didn't even hear it.  148gr. wc over 2.9 gr. Bullseye.  Same load I use for close target in my pistol.

Ben

Its a good load Ben!!

[clearwater]

Dear Guys,

       I live in a rural subdivision, with 5 to 10 acre lots.  My neighbors are very foregiving of an occasional rifle shot or shotgun boom for dispatching a critter, but I know they would get upset with any type of regular shooting.

        I have a .357 Handi, and it shoots factory .38 specials pretty well.   But, even those loads are pretty darned loud.

         I was wondering if anyone every tried to develop a slow and quiet .38 load, about 700 fps out of a rifle barrel, for occasional plinking and critter control out to about 50 yards. Yes, it would be anemic, but at 50 yards I am sure it would be fine.

        I occasionally see for sale boxes of re-manufactured .38 wadcutter rounds, for target shooting.  Out of a handgun, they are pretty good for close range target work, but are really really dirty. Maybe, this is the closest I could get to a quiet load, but I would certainly need something that shoots cleaner.

       Or maybe, this is just a dumb idea??

        Thanks for all comments and info.

Mannyrock

I have shot factory 38 long colt with 150 grain hollow base out of my 357 maxi and had excellent accuracy (1" groups at 50 yards) and quieter than a 22 high velocity round.