Author Topic: Cannon wheel book review (Read 2795 times)

Cannoneer · « **Reply #30 on:** May 24, 2011, 09:03:02 AM »

Max,

I'm also talking about building a model wheel that represents a real historic wheel, whether it be a US 57-inch artillery carriage wheel or a British 12 spoke wheel from 1780; what I'm saying (just like Douglas) is that for the purpose of taking the scale model to the range and firing from the bench or the ground, that I don't think it's necessary to try and fashion the wheels with the same degree of tightness in the mortice and tenon joins of spoke to nave, and spoke tongue through felly joins that a larger wheel carrying more weight, and having to endure greater shocks needs.

For example: I've got that CVA .69 cal Napoleon that I used for the postal shoot, and even after 25 years (or so) the wheels are still fairly solid. Now it would take a great stretch of the imagination to think of these wheels as actually being constructed like actual dished wooden compression wheels even though they pretty much look like the real deal (unfortunately 12 spokes instead of 14). There is a steel tyre, but the only thing holding them in place are screws, and you can see gaps between tyres and felly. All the joints of the spokes to nave and felloes are fastened by glue (not by friction and compression), and the four hub rings are held in place with nails (gaps). Now Max, if these wheels were somehow enlarged to 57-inch diam. and put on a real CW carriage carrying a Napoleon, and then we started to pull the piece down the road, we'd probably make it about 12 inches before the whole thing collapsed into the dirt. Now do you see what I'm trying to get at?

Double D · « **Reply #31 on:** May 24, 2011, 09:39:11 AM »

Quote from: Max Caliber on May 24, 2011, 07:48:07 AM

John, we are talking replica construction here to be used for any size wheel. If you don't need to replicate a certain wheel type, then you can construct them with any method and material that fits your needs. The only requirement is to construct them strong enough to stand up to heaviest use you would put them through.

That exactly the point I have been trying to make....

gunsonwheels · « **Reply #32 on:** May 24, 2011, 10:01:53 AM »

I think this thread is the current version of the one on wheels:

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,206652.0.html

I guess I'll chip in on shortcuts: on my first wheels I clamped the spokes in place against the felloe, drilled through the felloe from the outside and glued in a dowell. Similarly you can align the felloe joints with a clamp and drill at an angle to yield a hole crossing the joint so you can bang in another dowell to lock that joint. If you turn the outside of the felloes against a sander ("lathe turned"... or if you will "closely control the outside diameter of wood) , a short section of thinwall tube could suffice for a tire (it's held on by seven bolts anyway). Bang it on and drill for the plow bolts. Anyone know where 1/4 scale plowbolts (or equivalent) can be had?

Max Caliber · « **Reply #33 on:** May 24, 2011, 10:53:55 AM »

John, Looks like you need to form a committee to design a sturdy wheel that would be easier to make than an original style one but still look like one (profile of nave, number of spokes, and ....). Then you would have a model that you could present to a wheel maker for a price. A wheel, constructed like those on the German potato carts that you see around might work. A bit loose but strong. Any way you cut it, there's a lot of hand work in making a wheel and an easier to make version will still be expensive.

Double D · « **Reply #34 on:** May 24, 2011, 11:28:17 AM »

Quote from: gunsonwheels on May 24, 2011, 10:01:53 AM

I guess I'll chip in on shortcuts: on my first wheels I clamped the spokes in place against the felloe, drilled through the felloe from the outside and glued in a dowell. Similarly you can align the felloe joints with a clamp and drill at an angle to yield a hole crossing the joint so you can bang in another dowell to lock that joint. If you turn the outside of the felloes against a sander ("lathe turned"... or if you will "closely control the outside diameter of wood) , a short section of thinwall tube could suffice for a tire (it's held on by seven bolts anyway). Bang it on and drill for the plow bolts. Anyone know where 1/4 scale plowbolts (or equivalent) can be had?

What you describe is similar to the wheel construction the late William Green describes in his plans.

Green offers this wheel simplified with wooden dowels but his plans also mention shaped spokes. Dowels are okay but shaped would look better. But I'm not changing anything now on this carriage.

http://www.fototime.com/33868D6338DFCA1/orig.jpg

I used dowels when I built mine 28 years ago.

Smallest Plowbolts i can find are 3/8"...1/4" and or 1/8" would be nice.

gunsonwheels · « **Reply #35 on:** May 24, 2011, 12:07:16 PM »

I think they have smaller sizes that are used on carriage/buggy wheels... down to 1/4" anyway...

Zulu · « **Reply #36 on:** May 24, 2011, 12:40:34 PM »

Quote from: Max Caliber on May 24, 2011, 10:53:55 AM

John, Looks like you need to form a committee to design a sturdy wheel that would be easier to make than an original style one but still look like one (profile of nave, number of spokes, and ....). Then you would have a model that you could present to a wheel maker for a price. A wheel, constructed like those on the German potato carts that you see around might work. A bit loose but strong.

"Any way you cut it, there's a lot of hand work in making a wheel and an easier to make version will still be expensive."

This is what I've been trying to warn everyone about too.
Zulu

Articifer Tom · « **Reply #37 on:** May 24, 2011, 03:19:34 PM »

Instead of plow bolt take and tap the rim to what ever bolt size you want and peen at end to hold . Just and nut and washer to fello .
Another thing tenon cutters were available up to 1" at those small woodworker warehouse stores for about 30 dollars . They only cut about 2 3/4 " deep but worked great . I would chuck in lathe and built fixture holder for my lathe carriage and would drive it to the bit . In oak you will only get about one set of wheels "China Made ".

Zulu · « **Reply #38 on:** June 07, 2011, 11:32:10 AM »

I have finished perusing "Wheelwrighting A Modern Introduction" generously loaned to me by gunsonwheels.
It is by far the most informative book I have looked at on the subject. It is 371 pages long and describes the manufacturing of several types of wheels.
I know more than I did before I read these books and I confirm what I already knew. Wheel making is a time consuming process! The author buys his spokes from a spoke maker and confirms what Max Caliber has already told us. Have extra spokes on hand because they are easy to mess up.
I know I have posted these pictures before but here they are again.
I made these 36" wheels by looking at pictures and with only one year of woodworking experience. I knew they were supposed to be dished but couldn't figure out how to do it at that time. Now I think I could do it and make them look good and be strong even if they were not historically accurate internally. I'm a master at deception.

Thanks Cat Whisperer and gunsonwheels for the loan of the books. I'll get them back to you.
Zulu