Author Topic: Throat Too Long (Read 1940 times)

Dinny · « **on:** May 20, 2011, 06:48:17 AM »

I have recently learned that the throats on Howa rifles chambered in 6.5x55 Swede are very long.

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,234041.0.html

Can a gunsmith remove the barrel, shorten the chamber (set it back a thread or two) and recut it so the throat is shorter?

Thanks, Dinny

LanceR · « **Reply #1 on:** May 20, 2011, 10:48:31 AM »

Dinny, I suggest that you didn't find out the Howa 6.5x55mm throats are long. What you found out is that one individual has a rifle that has a long throat. That may or may not be true of all of them.

That said, have you considered the CZ 550 in one of it's offerings? They make several 6.5x55mm versions.

I have a CZ 550 full stocked .308 that shoots about 1/2 MOA with 165 grain Sierra GameKing and 168 grain Barnes Tipped TSX bullets. I know of at least three of us who have CZ full stocked rifles in multiple calibers.

Here's an article on several 6.5mm rifles: http://www.chuckhawks.com/choosing_6-5mm_rifle.htm

BTW, thanks for your service. What years were you in?

Lance

Dinny · « **Reply #2 on:** May 20, 2011, 11:28:06 AM »

Lance,
I have looked at the CZ rifles and they are still within my considerations, but cost a bit more than the Howa. Since not every rifle is exactly the same, I believe a revision of my original question is in order.

Can a long-throated chamber be modified to result in a shortened throat best for shooting lighter/shorter bullets?

Thanks for your appreciation, I have been in since 1994.

Thanks, Dinny

parkergunshop · « **Reply #3 on:** May 20, 2011, 11:43:20 AM »

Yes, Steps needed,

Remove barrel, Measure barrel thread length and record.

Cut off approximately .250 from the chamber end of the barrel

Extend the barrel threads back to the original length.

Reinstall barrel on action.

Use a finished reamer with the correct throat length wanted to extend the chamber until a go headspace guage will close under slight pressure from the bolt. Go slow and easy checking the results often.

Use a no go guage to make sure that you haven't gone in to far with the reamer.

This is best done by a gunsmith with the proper reamer and guages.

It gets more complex if you have a coned barrel with an extractor slot or a barrel recess for the bolt nose.

charles p · « **Reply #4 on:** May 20, 2011, 01:13:04 PM »

Suppose you reloaded your ammo with a little bit longer LOA? Leaves more room for powder. Those heavier 6.5 bullets are rather long, aren't they?

Dinny · « **Reply #5 on:** May 20, 2011, 01:16:58 PM »

Quote from: charles p on May 20, 2011, 01:13:04 PM

Suppose you reloaded your ammo with a little bit longer LOA? Leaves more room for powder. Those heavier 6.5 bullets are rather long, aren't they?

That's one thought, but what would I ever need a 150+gr 6.5mm bullet for? I would like to use the 120-130gr bullets the most.

Thanks, Dinny

gunnut69 · « **Reply #6 on:** May 20, 2011, 02:19:59 PM »

PGS is correct in his how to but you may not need to. I've several Swedes both military and M70 Featherweight and though the throats are long I've hod little problems getting great groups with any of them.. and I prefer the 125 grain Partition or the 120 Sierra for most purposes.. Perhaps this is an exercise in fixing a problem that doesn't exist.

parkergunshop · « **Reply #7 on:** May 20, 2011, 03:41:57 PM »

Gunnut69,

I neglected to add that fixing the problem real or unreal would cost right at 1/2 the new price of the Howa.

Barrel and chamber work is not cheap and some action/barrel designs cost quite a bit more.

Setting a barrel back will also leave an unsightly gap in the stock barrel channel due to barrel taper.

Dinny · « **Reply #8 on:** May 20, 2011, 04:04:47 PM »

Good points made by all, thanks for the insight. I would never plan to make changes before trying things the way they are first. Time spent loading and shooting will tell all.

Thanks, Dinny

Luckyducker · « **Reply #9 on:** May 20, 2011, 04:57:50 PM »

I have a Remington model 600 chambered in 6mmRem that sports a long throat and the only way I could get acceptable accuracy was to load them long (70 grain Nosler BT) and shoot single shot because the magazine length is not very accomodating. This just couldn't work for me, so I tried a different powder and voila! I have the correct OAL to fit the mag and .5 MOA accuracy. I just didn't think bullets jumping that far could shoot this well but if you feed it the right stuff it is possible.

Dinny · « **Reply #10 on:** May 20, 2011, 05:02:57 PM »

Quote from: Luckyducker on May 20, 2011, 04:57:50 PM

I have a Remington model 600 chambered in 6mmRem that sports a long throat and the only way I could get acceptable accuracy was to load them long (70 grain Nosler BT) and shoot single shot because the magazine length is not very accomodating. This just couldn't work for me, so I tried a different powder and voila! I have the correct OAL to fit the mag and .5 MOA accuracy. I just didn't think bullets jumping that far could shoot this well but if you feed it the right stuff it is possible.

That's an interesting turn around. It's always good to hear a happy ending. I sometimes wonder if the rifles I have sold would have been better shooters. Reloading has opened my eyes to their true potential and the rifles stick around a little longer too.

Thanks, Dinny

Nobade · « **Reply #11 on:** May 21, 2011, 04:45:39 AM »

Have you guys ever looked at a 6.5X55 cartridge? There is a mile of bullet sticking out of the case. If the rifle doesn't have a properly sized throat it's not going to be able to chamber a round. Factory guns are made to accept factory ammo. If you want to build one up to only accept your very specific handload, that's fine but you'll need a custom ground reamer and a barrel blank first.

The standard chamber is designed to work with 140+ grain bullets just like the military chamber is. For shooting lighter bullets in a 6.5mm may I suggest a 260 rem? That chamber has a much shorter throat and would work much better with little 120gr. or lighter bullets.

parkergunshop · « **Reply #12 on:** May 21, 2011, 07:19:47 AM »

One more point, if you short throat a barrel and then chamber the factory 160 grain loads, don't fire the rifle and then extract the round, the bullet may stick in the barrel and you will wiind up dumping powder into the action and magazine when the case is extracted with the bullet left in the barrel.

The worse case senario would be to try to chamber another round with the first bullet still lodged in the barrel and then firing that round, a burst barrel and/or blown up action.

A friend of mine an avid benchrest shooter recently died and left behind a gun cabinet full of custom guns with custom throats, tight neck chambers that require that new factory cases be neck turned before reloading them for shooting. Using factory ammo in his guns is not a good idea as I warned his nephew who bought several of them. The necks need to be turned and the bullet seating depth adjusted for ammo used in his guns. Tight necks can run pressures way up. We are talking about .308 Winchester and .30/338 wildcat chamberings for his guns.

gunnut69 · « **Reply #13 on:** May 21, 2011, 08:35:37 PM »

The original military load was in the 160 grain neighborhood, then in the late 30's they dropped the bullet weight to 139 grains (??). I've never heard of any accuracy problems with the Swede as is,.. The 120-125 grain bullets are a favorite of those several people I made sporters for in the first few years of M96-M38 importation. One M96 in particular had a 1899 date and the new owner was in a big hurry to try it out. Even before the finish was on the rifle he made a trip to the range and with 120 or the 140 grain Sierras 1/2 inch groups were easy.. Don't know how the Howas shoot but those I've looked at were well made and should be just fine.

mauser98us · « **Reply #14 on:** May 22, 2011, 07:33:38 AM »

Another option is to use a long bearing surface bullet such as a Barnes X. My 7M/M mauser built on a Venezuelan FN action had a barrel that was spotless. Could not see a reason to junk the tube. These were built to use the standard 175 grain mil slug.. Mine shoots great with the Barnes 120 grain X, but it is as long almost as the factory 175.I can get half inch groups with this slug when I am able to shoot that good, which is not often anymore.

Dinny · « **Reply #15 on:** May 22, 2011, 08:53:05 AM »

Quote from: mauser98us on May 22, 2011, 07:33:38 AM

Have you had any issues with your ammo fitting in the magazine? I have tried some 130gr Barnes TSXs in my current 6.5 and they didn't shoot well. I still need to try some other combinations of powder, primers and OAL before I discount them entirely...

Thanks, Dinny

mauser98us · « **Reply #16 on:** May 22, 2011, 05:10:03 PM »

No issues on my seven. I like the Speer Mag tip for that very reason long surface short overall,but I don't know if they make a mag tip for 6.5.

Siskiyou · « **Reply #17 on:** May 22, 2011, 05:29:44 PM »

I was given a sporterized M96 Swede by #2 brother when I retired. He also gave me a few hundred rounds of military ammo, along with 120-grain Remington C-L and 140-grain Nosler loads. The rifle shot them all in the same group at 100 yards. The 140-Nosler proved to be deadly on deer. Accuracy was never an issue with the rifle.

I loaded some 140-grain Remington C-L pushed by 47-grains (Lyman) H4831. These along with loads using WMR were accurate.

I have since passed the rifle to my SIL. He loves the rifle because of the light recoil compared to his -06.

My brother who is a 6.5 nut had successfully used 160-grain bullets in it.

I believe you are on the right track by changing components. You might try one of the 4350 powders; I had very good luck with IMR4350 and the 130 grain TTSX in the 270 Winchester. H4831 might work because it is in the same burning range as Mag Pro and RL22. I was looking for options beyond what Barnes has online and called the brother who has a Barnes Manual. He gave me all the 130-grain loads listed and the IMR4350 load was one of them.
http://www.barnesbullets.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/6-5x55SwedishMauserWeb.pdf

Spector · « **Reply #18 on:** May 30, 2011, 08:32:57 PM »

Dinny..........my military Swedes love the Sierra 85 grain JHP. A very short bullet that has to make a real jump to reach the riflings. I can only shoot up to 100 yards at the Floyd Co Conservation Club, but it is the most accurate bullet in the Swedes I have tried it in. I am not the only one who has discovered this in the military Swedes. It doesn't make sense, but they are. My Swedes also seem to prefer flat base bullets as well over boat tails. Try them and you may come to doubt what you've heard about short bullets in long throats......at least in the Swedes........Mike

Dinny · « **Reply #19 on:** May 31, 2011, 05:40:53 AM »

Quote from: Spector on May 30, 2011, 08:32:57 PM

Dinny..........my military Swedes love the Sierra 85 grain JHP. A very short bullet that has to make a real jump to reach the riflings. I can only shoot up to 100 yards at the Floyd Co Conservation Club, but it is the most accurate bullet in the Swedes I have tried it in. I am not the only one who has discovered this in the military Swedes. It doesn't make sense, but they are. My Swedes also seem to prefer flat base bullets as well over boat tails. Try them and you may come to doubt what you've heard about short bullets in long throats......at least in the Swedes........Mike

Mike,
I had some of those same bullets. I have to admit to giving in a little too soon, but traded them away after trying just a few loads. They didn't shoot well for me at all. Perhaps more loading research is due...

Thanks, Dinny

gunnut69 · « **Reply #20 on:** June 01, 2011, 12:51:21 PM »

We've had best luck with IMR4831 and Sierra bullets. I prefer the 120 for practice and the 125 Partition for serious work.. I've taken several deer with the Partition and they work as well as in any other similar caliber.. The 140 grainers tend to exit a bit better on the longest raking shots and still open pretty radically at even extended ranges... The Sierras make great practice slugs and work just fine on deer.. although I've not used them thus I've seen several examples.. The Swede is a mild accurate easy to load for round that shoots flat and will handle deer and antalope sized critters easily..maybe even the elk/moose sized beasties with the heavier slugs.. After all the round is a favorite in Europe for such animals.. I've buy a quality rifle that felt good to me and find the load it likes.. The CZ rifles of all flavors I've handled worked great..