The Ruger No. 1 in .30-30

[mrbumps]

RevGeo,
 
Not to tempt you, but Ruger still catalogues the No. 1 in 303 British.  They are pretty easy to find.

[hillbill]

i hope they make it in the international!!!!

[Brithunter]

Only the No1A I believe.

[Swampman]

The .30-40 would be better.

[mrbumps]

i hope they make it in the international!!!!

They made 19 of the 303 Bristish in the international.  Rumor was they were employee guns.  My local FFL is a collector, and he has one.  Very Nice!

[Brithunter]

The .30-40 would be better.

Better than what?


Better for what?


C'mon enlighten us please.

[Swampman]

There's just no interest in the .303 here in the US.  Resale of the .30-40 would be faster and more profitable.  Trying to find bullets for the .303 is a pain and selection is limited.  The .30-40 is more accurate and just better all around.

[Brithunter]

There's just no interest in the .303 here in the US.  Resale of the .30-40 would be faster and more profitable.  Trying to find bullets for the .303 is a pain and selection is limited.  The .30-40 is more accurate and just better all around.

My Oh my swampy does it again. Just how do you get your foot wedged into your mouth so easily?


303 British not popular ...................................... hmmmm perhaps you should put aside the green tinted specs for a while and come out into the daylight and take a look around. Perhaps enquire about reloading die sales in .303 British. Or perhaps someone like Brian Dick how much interest in the le 303 British there is?


Maybe .................................. just maybe ask Lipsey's why they badgered Ruger into making the No1 in 303 British in the first place?


Then perhaps do a bit of research and find out just how popular the 30-40 is outside America? The do the same with the 303 British  . In fact I don't think the 30-40 is banned in France where other military calibres (sic) are. Probably because they never heard of it before. Other European countries have similar restrictions on the ownership of military calibres and once again I have not found the 30-40 listed. It would outside enthusiasts and in the US the 30-40 is just not known.

[Swampman]

Who cares about outside America?  As I mentioned the bullets selection is so limited with it's odd ball bore size that there's not much point to it.  Get a .30-40 if you can find one.

[mannyrock]

Brithunter,
 
   I understand what you are trying to say, but I must side with Swampman on this one.
 
   Here in the U.S., the .303 British is simply not very popular at all, and is not even viewed as a "classic" round.  Out of the perhaps 100 deer hunters and shooters I have known in my 45 years of hunting and shooting, I cannot think of one of them that hunted with or shot (that I saw) the .303 round.  I have shot a few Enfields in my time, so I have shot the round.
 
   I think that the reason for this is, that the. .303 round was never associated with high-grade or African hunting here.  It never acquired that mystical quality or romance that the British have for it.  Instead, the primary contact that Americans have had with the .303 is that if you didn't have enough money to buy a surplus Springfield for hunting, you were forced to buy a beat up Enfield.  As a young man, I can remember seeing racks of really bad Enfields for sale, even in department stores, for about $100 each.   And at gunshows, you see lots of really poor "hack jobs" from people who sporterized them (badly) in their garages.
 
   So here in America, the .303 British round was viewed as a "milsurp" round, much as we view the 7.62x54R rimmed Russian round today.  Yes, it is powerful.  But it is only "almost as good as a .30-06",yet plainly not as good.  It is viewed a second place contender,  a poor runner up, a wanna be, to the .30-06 round, which is ubiquitous here in the U.S.  It is everywhere, in anything that shoots, it is the gold standard by which all other centerfire rounds are measured.    Even among people in the U.S. who know zero about guns (or even hate them), if you asked them to name a rifle round, they would immediately say ".30-06."
 
      As for the .30-40 Krag, it is not highly popular in the U.S., but what it has going for it is that it was a former U.S. Military cartridge, with all of the allure of its predecessor, the .45-70.  And, since there are still lots of original and well done .30-40 Krag sporters at gunshows, one is still constantly reminded of the round.   To Americans, the Krag rifles "feel" very very historical and interesting when we pick them up, whereas the Enfields do not.  In a sense, the .303 British round is viewed as somewhat "Un-American."
 
  That having been said, I personally believe that the peep-sighted Enfields were the very best bolt action battle rifles ever produced, and that the .303 with its big round nosed bullet is generally adequate for anything that a .30-06 could do.  Problem is, that when hunters in the U.S. consciously want to go down one-step in power and recoil from the .30-06, they are instantly at the wonderful .308 Winchester (for bolt actions) and the extremely classic .300 Savage round for lever actions (100 years of excellent hunting history.)
 
   Hope this explains somewhat Swampman's viewpoint on the .30-40 Krag, and mine as well.
 
Best Regards,
 
Mannyrock
 
 
 

[Brithunter]

Thank you now that gave me a laugh  .


You see the 30-40 Krag was a late comer onto the scene only arriving two years before the 30-30 Winchester. Like the American Krag rifle it was a late comer onto the military rifle scene. The lowly 303 British had been in service around the world for over four years by then even as a smokeless round, remember it was introduced with a compressed black powder charge originally as the smokeless propellent had not been developed to a stable enough stage by the British Military.


Sporting rifles have been made almost since it's inception and even the Winchester 1895 was made and offered in 303 British. In the 1890's and up on to about 1908 or so the 303 British was used by big game hunters in Africa, it was banned in India for civilian use as were all military calibres due to insurgents and rebels, to shoot the largest of game including Elephant and Rhino. People have heard of Bell using the 7mm Mauser for such hunting often do not know before the 2nd Boer War Bell used a .303 Lee Speed rifle and another well known African hunter of the period was a Mr A. H. Neumann who used a Lee Metford rifle with it's 215 grain "Solids" for such hunting.


Firms like Rigby built such rifles and Mauser even made a special run of intermediate length actioned rifles with slanted magazine for the 303 cartridge. Gibbs of Bristol, Holland & Holland, Purdy and greener all produced rifles in single shot on the Field action, Martini, Soper and 1887 Farquerson falling block as well as doubles and magazine rifles in .303.


I realise that after WW2 loads of very poor condition Lee Enfields were brought up by American surplus dealers and distributors which hurt the rifles reputation however there were also good rifles amongst them and the NRA even did articles on making fine sporting rifles out of them. Folks like Ed Bishop made sporting stocks for them as did Fajen and of course Sile of Italy. Lyman and Redfield made receiver sporting sights for them.


I wonder why if they were not popular?


Now as for the .30 Springfield cartridge that came along 18 years later and despite operating at a higher pressure only produced the same velocity and the smaller lower pressure 303 with a similar weight bullet. 150 grain bullets were loaded in sporting ammunition for the 303 and they gave a velocity of 2700 fps according the Kynoch listing. Later of course in sporting ammunition the 30-06 was improved with the 150 grain bullet to 2900 fps as one would expect give it's larger case capacity and higher chamber pressure.


In fact in a suitably stronger action such as the P-14 the 303 can be loaded to higher pressure equal to that of the 06 cartridge and close the velocity gap. Improve the case to increase powder capacity in the P-14 it will run with the 06 cartridge  .


Oh I understand just how provincial some Americans can be. It's quite easy to understand after all the Country is so much larger and distances so much greater the here in the UK. The British Empire then the Commonwealth has meant the British in most part have a wider view of the world after all the British isles are tiny compared with some American states so we have needed to look outwards and not inwards. This has led to complete opposites in cultures such as hunting for instance and the choice of rifles. The Lee Enfield was popular and familar as Britian had National Service so many were familiar with the lee Enfield rifle just as Americans were familiar with the Krag, then Springfield then Garand the big difference being the Lee Enfield and the 303 cartridge served through all three of the America rifles service lives and through four American service cartridges. Those being the 45/70, 30-40, 30-03 and 30-06.

[mannyrock]

Brithunter,
 
    Thanks for all of the historical and loading information.  I do not doubt a word of it.
 
    And yet, my English cousin, the sad fact of the matter remains.  The .303 British round is not very popular in America at all.  I go to 4 or 5 medium and large gunshows every year (and have done so for 45 years).  At most show, you would be hard pressed, among the perhaps 1,000 guns, to find two or three high quality sporting rifles in .303.  And moreover,  it may well be harder to find a box of good quality hunting ammunition (such as Remington Core-Lokts) in that caliber.  People don't shoot it, and people don't want it.
 
 

[Libraryhound]

Did any one on this thread buy a Ruger NO.1 30-30? if so can we get a review from you? I personally like the idea of a NO.1 30-30 woods gun that I would use. I hunt deer and hogs with most shots under 75yards, I am not heading on safari any time soon, so the 30-30 will fit most of my hunting needs. I would think of it as an upgraded/grown up version of the 30-30 lever rifle lots of us were weaned on.
libraryhunter

[Brithunter]

Sorry Libaryhound,


     I doubt if any made it across the pond. if they did the price would be outrageous too. Just did a quick search and in 2009 the No1 retailed at $1507 US and prices have skyrocketed since then. Hmm just found a test on the 450/400 No1 with a current..ish price of £1,333 that's about $2,200 US. A special order like the 30-30 or even the 303 would cost way more. i did ask the importers at a show a couple of years back aboutt he 303 but thye quoted about £2,500 which is about $4,125 US.


At those prices I doubt we will see any at all.

[pastorp]

Just curious mannyrock, but did you find & buy a #1 in 30-30?  the older I get the more soft shooting guns appeal to me. But I also like easy carrying guns as well.
For me a TC contender might suit me better. But I just wondered if you or anyone followed through on the Ruger #1.

Regards,

[mannyrock]

 
Hi Pastcorp,
 
  No, sadly I have not yet gotten a Ruger No. 1 in .30-30.  I really like the concept, but I have never owned a Ruger No. 1, and am a bit worried about the stringing issue among some of them.   It would really be bad if I got one, and it shot  bad groups at 100 yards.  That's why I was hoping that some folks had gotten theirs, and could give us a good review.
 
Best, Mannyrock
 
 
 

[yellowtail3]

I think a No. 1 in 30-30 would be a fine rifle. It'll kill more effectively further out than most peeps have any business shooting, or are likely to shoot (at least at a deer where I live)