Author Topic: swaging a 458 down to 454?  (Read 2313 times)

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Offline hansg/Ups

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swaging a 458 down to 454?
« on: May 21, 2011, 11:57:57 AM »
I'm trying to get heavy weight full wadcutters for my Redhawk 45 Colt.The Redhawk has a long cylinder/chamber,that allows a C.O.L. of 1.800"and a separate,heavy roll crimp.
Is it feasible to swage "45/70"projectiles down to .454?I'm thinking of modifying an existing 405gr .458 mold with clay or plaster of Paris,to get a 300 or 325gr full wadcutter[using wheelweights or wheelweights+ tin solder and water chilling,then lubing].
I've never swaged or gas checked projectiles before.
Out to ~60 yards a full wadcutter ought to be effective on game.
Is this feasible?,economical?
Thanks.

PS I'm also thinking of "reducing"a 500gr .458 mold to 400gr full wadcutter for my 45/70 revolver.

Offline MIBullets

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Re: swaging a 458 down to 454?
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2011, 06:29:21 PM »
I know you could simply push a .458 through a draw die to make a .454.

I'm not sure on the mold modification since I don't cast much, but it sure seems reasonable. I would guess the hardest part would be making the mold perfect so that the old nose section is plugged off leaving a smooth perpendicular surface on the lead when it drops from the mold.

Offline Rick Teal

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Re: swaging a 458 down to 454?
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2011, 01:30:58 PM »
You mention using wheel weights.  The "lead" in these is much harder than the pure lead used in most swaging operations.  You may want to discuss this with your die maker if you plan to use a swaging die to reduce the bullet weight from 500 to 400 grains.  Also discuss it with your draw-die maker, since the harder material may shorten the life expectancy of your draw die.
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Offline Nobade

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Re: swaging a 458 down to 454?
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2011, 03:59:15 PM »
How about this?
http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-400D-D.png

He has lots of other designs as well that are close to what you want. And you will likely find that WFN nose is a lot more accurate than a full wadcutter when the bullets get this long.
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Offline iiranger

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Re: swaging a 458 down to 454?
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2011, 08:49:42 AM »
Real simple, look hard at the "Keith" (for Elmer Keith) moulds available. He used the very flat front and only slightly reduced diameter bullet. LEE has one in 452 or 453 or 454 at 300 grains. You can vary the diameter a tiny bit with alloy content. Lyman has the books on that.

Wadcutters have lousy ballsitics. As do most Keith designs. At the same time the knock down is much better than "round nosed" loafers. Under 100... If you must.

Most bullet commercial bullets are fairly soft. .458's for the .45/70 are not going to be heavy jacketed... With a stout press, Rockchucker started it all, you should be able to --WELL LUBED, lanolin or castor oil or mix is ancient and still good substance-- shove a .458 bullet thru a .454 die. The "size dies" for lead bullets may work. 10 bullets? 100 bullets? 1000 bullets. This is a bit abusive but the LEE die is $15.00 plus ship...

Tghe corbins take questions like this (to try to sell something. Dave, corbins.com. richard, rceco.com Luck.

Online darkgael

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Re: swaging a 458 down to 454?
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2011, 02:55:46 AM »
Swaging. This thread caught my eye. I do the opposite. I swage up to diameter. A friend of mine gave me a few thousand LSWCHPs in .430 and 230 grains. I have no real use for them as bullets for my .44. They are of soft lead alloy and swaged manufacture. I put them into a Corbin .452 SWC swage die and they come out at 205 grains with the HP closed up.
The point is that, even with the softer alloy, and a large Corbin swage press - much bigger than a Rockchucker - the swaging down in weight takes considerable pressure. And I am only dropping off 25 grains.
The diameter change is easy.
Swaging a hard alloy like WW and knocking off 100 grains is going to be VERY difficult, if at all possible, to do manually. In fact, It will be VERY difficult to do even with a soft alloy.
Pete

Offline srussell

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Re: swaging a 458 down to 454?
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2011, 04:33:34 PM »
i have taken .458  down to 452  but it was soft lead in a lee push through sizer. ww would most likely take 3 steps

Offline Dinny

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Re: swaging a 458 down to 454?
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2011, 05:56:51 PM »
I shoot two different bullets that were originally cast at .458". They both were sized down to .452" and are cast from WW lead. One is a 405gr RNFP and the other is a 330gr Lyman HP. Both are very accurate, but the edge goes to the 405gr bullet. Be careful when loading as there's less case capacity with these longer, heavier bullets. I use just a few grains of TB with mine and have had ragged hole groups at 35yds when shot from my H&R Handi in .45LC.




Thanks, Dinny



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Offline Seth Hawkins

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Re: swaging a 458 down to 454?
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2011, 12:20:11 PM »
You don't swage "down".  You swage up, and draw down.  Each step of creating a bullet via swaging results in a slightly larger diameter "bullet".  Getting a press and set of draw dies to do what you want - if it's even practical to do it - will be expensive, and the process will be time consuming, because you will need to be very careful not to crack the dies.  WW lead is considered very hard for swaging purposes.  As others have said, doing this with pure lead would be difficult.  Using WW with a hand press just ain't practical.  Even using a hydraulic press wouldn't be easy.  And modifying an existing mould is just not practical, either.  Plus, the lube grooves will be damaged, too.  The only style of bullet I would even consider trying to draw down would be a paper patch bullet, as it has no grooves.  If you were trying to do this with something like a .22-cal bullet made of 1:40, maybe 1:30 tops, you could probably get away with it.  Ask anyone who produces lead wire how difficult it is to draw pure lead.  I have a Corbin CSP-2 press and I wouldn't even try to make my own lead wire.  It's much cheaper and easier to buy it from someone who has the right tools to do it.  Casting my own cores is cheaper still.


Why don't you just buy a mould that drops what you want?  Even if you have to have it custom made, it will be much, much cheaper and much, much easier to get the results you want - a usable bullet that fits your needs.  I bet you wouldn't have to look hard to find an existing mould that drops exactly what you want and need.


The amount of money, and time, you'd spend trying to do this as you've described, and get decent results... well... it kinda begs the question - Why?
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