Author Topic: California must turn tens of thousands of inmates loose. (Read 2516 times)

powderman · « **on:** May 23, 2011, 05:30:24 PM »

Quote

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/05/23/supreme-court-rules-california-free-tens-thousands-inmates/

Ready or not, here they come. This will surely give the druggies, uhhhhh, I mean economy a big boost. POWDERMAN.

Shu · « **Reply #1 on:** May 24, 2011, 01:49:57 AM »

Makes me so happy and our new failbot govenor doesn't think crime will rise with this.

ironglow · « **Reply #2 on:** May 24, 2011, 02:08:14 AM »

It is eitherbuild new prisons (California is broke), or turn thousands loose. http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/california-politics/2011/05/state-scrambles-to-deal-with-prison-order.html
Perhaps it is time California and other states should start taking a closer look at Arizona sheriff Joe's Arpaio's tent city.
If California decides to turn thousands of criminals loose, surely they should relax CC restrictions for honest folks ! It would be unconscionable to turn thousands of criminals loose without protecting the public..and underfunded law enforcement is unlikely to be able to handle the increase in crime.
Will this be an invitation for career criminals to "head west, young man"...older criminals too. The rest of us need not rest easily, since the California inmates were successful, surely more such suits will follow in other states.

Shu · « **Reply #3 on:** May 24, 2011, 03:17:38 AM »

IG,
the new California govenor is about as soft on crime as you can get. Crime will go up. CCWs will be harder to get and California will lose even more money. Adulter Shwarzzenaggar at least made a deal with other states to house the inmates. Brown just wants to set them free. The rehabilitation statistics are incredibly low.

gypsyman · « **Reply #4 on:** May 24, 2011, 04:35:51 AM »

Perhaps the people of Ca. will get lucky, and most of the released inmates will run for public office!

gypsyman

magooch · « **Reply #5 on:** May 24, 2011, 04:57:02 AM »

There is another alternative. Our state has the "Three strikes and you're out law", which is a good attempt at solving the problem of career criminals. However, the net effect is that it contributes to loading up the prisons when it is actually employed.

I would propose an upgrade to the law, which would be "One strike and you're dead." Prison space would be reserved for lying politicians and crooked bureaucrats.

dukkillr · « **Reply #6 on:** May 24, 2011, 05:05:55 AM »

It is not clear that the inmates will actually be released. The ruling, which apparently the quoted author never read (or read but it didn't fit the agenda of his audience), gives California a couple of weeks to come up with a plan and a couple of years to implement it. It also gives them the opportunity for more time if they are making substantial progress during the two years. Four years is a TON of time in prison turnover.

An official from California was on the radio this morning discussing a plan to shift PVs and non-violent criminals to county jails where apparently there is more space. They seem to think this can pick up the required space... time will tell...

Junior1942 · « **Reply #7 on:** May 24, 2011, 06:22:59 AM »

Quote from: dukkillr on May 24, 2011, 05:05:55 AM

It is not clear that the inmates will actually be released. The ruling, which apparently the quoted author never read (or read but it didn't fit the agenda of his audience), ...

Oh, no! Fox news spun the news to the right? They're the only source of news for many of our members. Oh, me, oh my--that is awful.... It begs a question--is spun news actually news or is it propaganda?

dukkillr · « **Reply #8 on:** May 24, 2011, 07:14:45 AM »

Quote from: Junior1942 on May 24, 2011, 06:22:59 AM

Quote from: dukkillr on May 24, 2011, 05:05:55 AM
It is not clear that the inmates will actually be released. The ruling, which apparently the quoted author never read (or read but it didn't fit the agenda of his audience), ...
Oh, no! Fox news spun the news to the right? They're the only source of news for many of our members. Oh, me, oh my--that is awful.... It begs a question--is spun news actually news or is it propaganda?

These days most news is spun. That's why it's so important to get your news from a variety of sources and think for yourself. But I wouldn't get too excited... the problem is just as bad or worse with left leaning outlets...

Pat/Rick · « **Reply #9 on:** May 24, 2011, 04:19:06 PM »

Outsource the prison terms to china.

powderman · « **Reply #10 on:** May 24, 2011, 06:28:20 PM »

Quote from: Pat/Rick on May 24, 2011, 04:19:06 PM

Outsource the prison terms to china.

I bet the costs of running the prisons would take a nosedive. Hope everybody likes rice. POWDERMAN.

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #11 on:** May 24, 2011, 06:55:03 PM »

It is over toilets. 54 inmates to a toilet is too many.
So if they bring in porta potties and shift some of the beds to shifts like in the Navy and run the prison 24 hours they can keep them.
Three things are being batted around.
A- send all the inmates that have federal time pending after state time to the federal system early.
B- Send some of the Mexican inmates to Mexico and pay 20K an inmate (costs the state 48-49K a year)
C- Send some with short time back to the county jails and have them released from the county.
The Prison guards are hired based on x inmates to a guard. The union is very powerful in this state and will not allow it's memership to be reduced. Another reason why our state is broke. Who else gets paid from the time they pull into the parking lot? CA prison guards do and are given up to 30 minutes to report for duty but are not screened and CA prisons have drug and cell phone problems.

yellowtail3 · « **Reply #12 on:** May 24, 2011, 10:56:52 PM »

Maybe we're locking up too many people. I read somwheres that we have more people in prison, as a proportion of pop., than most any other industrialized country.

Is it true?

guzzijohn · « **Reply #13 on:** May 25, 2011, 03:41:27 AM »

According to the International Centre for Prison Studies at King's College London, the U.S. currently has the largest documented prison population in the world, both in absolute and proportional terms. We've got roughly 2.03 million people behind bars, or 701 per 100,000 population. China has the second-largest number of prisoners (1.51 million, for a rate of 117 per 100,000), and Russia has the second-highest rate (606 per 100,000, for a total of 865,000). Russia had the highest rate for years, but has released hundreds of thousands of prisoners since 1998; meanwhile the U.S. prison population has grown by even more. Rounding out the top ten, with rates from 554 to 437, are Belarus, Bermuda (UK), Kazakhstan, the Virgin Islands (U.S.), the Cayman Islands (UK), Turkmenistan, Belize, and Suriname, which you'll have to agree puts America in interesting company. South Africa, a longtime star performer on the list, has dropped to 15th place (402) since the dismantling of apartheid.

magooch · « **Reply #14 on:** May 25, 2011, 05:45:06 AM »

We might have the largest prison population, but the anwer sure as hell isn't to let them out. I doubt that anyone gets sent to prison for spitting on the sidewalk; it's more likely that they have committed a bunch of crimes before they finally are sent up. I think drug and alcohol abuse is at the root of the majority of those who are sent to prison. I'd be good with a death penalty for dealers, smugglers and abusers.

yellowtail3 · « **Reply #15 on:** May 25, 2011, 07:28:03 AM »

Quote from: magooch on May 25, 2011, 05:45:06 AM

We might have the largest prison population, but the anwer sure as hell isn't to let them out.

You approach would be... what?

Quote

I think drug and alcohol abuse is at the root of the majority of those who are sent to prison.

'abuse'? Define 'abuse', and why the hell are we locking people up?

Quote

I'd be good with a death penalty for dealers, smugglers and abusers.

An immoral and shameful position to take. Maybe you'll learn a diff tune, should the gov't decided to kill you for your choices. Perhaps the wrong people will be in power, and want to apply your favored penalty - death? - for owning a rifle not approved of... maybe one that uses a chemical propellent? Or hasn't been registered? Will you say, "mother, may I?"

guzzijohn · « **Reply #16 on:** May 25, 2011, 07:28:44 AM »

Quote from magooch:

Quote

I think drug and alcohol abuse is at the root of the majority of those who are sent to prison. I'd be good with a death penalty for dealers, smugglers and abusers.

Death penalty for smoking weed?? What have you been smoking? If we cleared the prisons of people that have been convicted of simple possesion we would not have an overcrowding problem. The most dangerous thing about smoking weed is the laws.
GuzziJohn

45-70.gov · « **Reply #17 on:** May 25, 2011, 08:10:43 AM »

Quote from: magooch on May 25, 2011, 05:45:06 AM

We might have the largest prison population, but the anwer sure as hell isn't to let them out. I doubt that anyone gets sent to prison for spitting on the sidewalk; it's more likely that they have committed a bunch of crimes before they finally are sent up. I think drug and alcohol abuse is at the root of the majority of those who are sent to prison. I'd be good with a death penalty for dealers, smugglers and abusers.

i am with you

but with a different approach

let nature take its corse

they can die soon enough without government interference

but looks like some here don't beleive in freedom

it is all about job security for prison workers
thats why they don't want you shooting in self defence

ironglow · « **Reply #18 on:** May 25, 2011, 04:12:59 PM »

Sounds like quite a few are dope smokers, They might have a different view if they could just break their habit. It sure is strange; until now, most have agreed that our laws are not to be treated cafeteria style...one should not try to "pick and choose" which of them they will obey.
...BNut in recent years we are faced with people who think the laws they choose to break, should be viewed 'differently' than those laws the "common" people may run afoul of.

powderman · « **Reply #19 on:** May 25, 2011, 05:26:18 PM »

I'd definitely have no problem with executing drug manufacturers, smugglers, and dealers. They serve no useful purpose in a decent, civilized society, so eliminating them would be no loss to anybody, uhhhhh, except the users of course and with them dead there would be no users. Users should be jailed and forced to work. I remember the chain gangs used on the roads years ago. That served several purposes. Much needed cleanup was done, weeds cut, brush cut, garbage cleaned up. The work was hard and helped to cut down on repeat offenders. Pay em 10 cents an hour, if they earn it. The state would benefit greatly. Our county uses class D felons to do some of these things, they even pick up the garbage every week. Anybody know why they call it DOPE?? Storm coming fast, shutting this down. POWDERMAN.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #20 on:** May 25, 2011, 05:34:51 PM »

Quote from: powderman on May 25, 2011, 05:26:18 PM

I'd definitely have no problem with executing drug manufacturers, smugglers, and dealers. They serve no useful purpose in a decent, civilized society, so eliminating them would be no loss to anybody, uhhhhh, except the users of course and with them dead there would be no users. Users should be jailed and forced to work. ....... Anybody know why they call it DOPE?? Storm coming fast, shutting this down. POWDERMAN.

same thing has been said about muslims and christians

you either believe in freedom or you don't
it is really that simple

dukkillr · « **Reply #21 on:** May 25, 2011, 06:06:40 PM »

Quote from: 45-70.gov on May 25, 2011, 05:34:51 PM

same thing has been said about muslims and christians

you either believe in freedom or you don't
it is really that simple

You're right, of course. But a stunning amount of people will tell you with a straight face that they believe in freedom when they really only care about the parts of freedom that are important to them and their indoctrination.

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #22 on:** May 25, 2011, 06:35:30 PM »

I am not sure why CA has the Death Penality. We certainly do not put people to death. They are an expensive solitary wing.
I think we should start with those on death row for the first to reduce the prison population.
I also think we should have three appeals or 6 years. What ever comes first. If you make all three appeals in the first month and all are rejected. The day after the third one is rejected you get moved to the next up room and a menue for a last meal is presented for that night. The endless appeals are choking the system and costing tax payers Millions.
I also think the three strikes law should be amended to if your final strike is a violent felony. Why not make the death penalty manditory with the same three appeals.
I also think we should make prison a 3 or 4 shift round the clock.
Group 1 would be at work - Jobs done by the inmates to help run the prison. Even if it is just riding a bike that powers the lights for the study hall, TV, and class rooom.
Group 2 would be at free time - Classes, TV, work out, lawyers, library, study hall.
Group 3 would be asleep. As they move from free time to bed they drop all clothes and gear in laundry move to the showers and pick up new clothes for the next day and bedding.
If you need to add a group 4 and move to 6 hour sleep and work schedules then great. Less sleep more work great.
Don't we still need big rocks made into little rocks for roads?
Make the punnishment not worth the crimes. Break the prison gangs by wearing out the prisoners and not giving them time to think or plot against each other and too tired to do anything about it if they have been thinking about it.

tinbender · « **Reply #23 on:** May 25, 2011, 07:55:13 PM »

sheriff Joe has been a controversy here in Arizona,

Those that are more focused on getting the job done than in playing politics tend to be at the center where approval of the goals meet disapproval of the way the job is accomplished.

I have not always agreed with his methods but when confronted with criticism for tent city early on he said(paraphrase) there is a group of Americans that have been required to endure heat and cold, food and water that was not as good as they might want and lack of sleep...perhaps while sitting in a foxhole....our military.

Makes it hard to feel sympathy for the people in tent city considering they are not being shot at.

My opinion only....Dave

Casull · « **Reply #24 on:** May 25, 2011, 08:28:09 PM »

Years ago I came to the conclusion that non-violent/non-dangerous offenders should be placed under house arrest. I believe that prison should be used as punishment and as a means of keeping society safer. By reserving prison for violent/dangerous offenders and placing the others under house arrest, we would have no shortage of prison space and while those committing non-violent/non-dangerous crimes would receive a less severe punishment, they would also be paying for their own upkeep, reducing costs as well. I just don't see why we release a rapist/murder early because of a shortage of prison space, and then send a car thief or white collar criminal to prison.

Gun Runner · « **Reply #25 on:** May 25, 2011, 10:56:08 PM »

If the gov. wants all these people released, I think they should be sent to D.C. thats were most of the crooks are anyway.

Gun Runner

yellowtail3 · « **Reply #26 on:** May 25, 2011, 11:10:38 PM »

Quote from: powderman on May 25, 2011, 05:26:18 PM

I'd definitely have no problem with executing drug manufacturers, smugglers, and dealers. They serve no useful purpose in a decent, civilized society

It's a little odd that you're so hostile towards Muslims, Powderman, as you sound like you'd fit into the Iranian theocracy just fine. They like hanging people there, for things like drug use, being homosexuals, and dissent. They, too, think they have God on their side.

Yes, you might like it there!! Is this the sort of think you'd like to see? She was accused of... carrying drugs.

ironglow · « **Reply #27 on:** May 26, 2011, 01:52:44 AM »

Quote from: yellowtail3 on May 25, 2011, 11:10:38 PM

Quote from: powderman on May 25, 2011, 05:26:18 PM
I'd definitely have no problem with executing drug manufacturers, smugglers, and dealers. They serve no useful purpose in a decent, civilized society

It's a little odd that you're so hostile towards Muslims, Powderman, as you sound like you'd fit into the Iranian theocracy just fine. They like hanging people there, for things like drug use, being homosexuals, and dissent. They, too, think they have God on their side.

Yes, you might like it there!! Is this the sort of think you'd like to see? She was accused of... carrying drugs.

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Hmmm...wonder how she missed out on being beheaded or stoned ?

Whoops ! not that kind of STONED..so the potheads can put their matches away...

Execution does seem a bit extreme for the 'casual user'... But then, after the sixth or eighth time caught using...that's beyond casual;..right ?

Seriously, I have no problem with the habitual mass marketer of illegal crap being eliminated..usually they are of no earthly good and just waste taxpayer's funds, sitting around in jail.

Jail time should always be at 'hard labor', that is not much to ask . If one only pauses to think about it, there are hundreds of thousands of honest people out there working at very hard labor, and paying taxes which pay for the room and board for those who have committed crimes and are in the hoosegow.
Think about it; most are in there because they shunned hard labor. If they are working hard to earn a living, they likely won't turn to crime. It's when they try to short-circuit the system that they do illegal things... They should learn how to work hard and keep regular work hours..even if it's only making little rocks out of big rocks...

BTW: That photo doesn't look quite right ! A) the noose is too loose to guarantee effectiveness B) The knots should be to one side, not the back. The neck is accustomed to bending forward, this placement could result in strangulation, rather than the efficient execution usually hoped for C) Can't explain why, but this photo seems so much clearer and crisper than most Islamic execution photos..perhaps photos of their executions are frowned upon (as with Saddam Hussein) so most are clandestinely taken with cell phones. Evenn their executions they broadcast... of innocents like Berg and Perl were rather 'fuzzy'.
Perhaps that photo came from an anti-Islam site..

powderman · « **Reply #28 on:** May 26, 2011, 04:49:00 AM »

Quote

you either believe in freedom or you don't
it is really that simple.

I see your point but nobody has the right to make, peddle, or smuggle poison that kills thousands every year. That has nothing to do with free choices, that is about criminals making a profit off the lives of others.
MCWOODDUCK. Good post Sir, I agree.
IRONGLOW. Good post too and yes, yellows pic looks pretty fakey. Then again, the godless ones love to see their victims kick and squirm, kinda make em suffer. POWDERMAN.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #29 on:** May 26, 2011, 06:53:32 AM »

Quote from: powderman on May 26, 2011, 04:49:00 AM

Quote
you either believe in freedom or you don't
it is really that simple.

I see your point but nobody has the right to make, peddle, or smuggle poison that kills thousands every year. That has nothing to do with free choices, that is about criminals making a profit off the lives of others.
MCWOODDUCK. Good post Sir, I agree.
IRONGLOW. Good post too and yes, yellows pic looks pretty fakey. Then again, the godless ones love to see their victims kick and squirm, kinda make em suffer. POWDERMAN.

most of us here re-load

in a generation or 2 of democrats in office and the media
i can see us looked at as ''manufactueres of death''

not to mention all the lead you and i have scattered around

i am sure i have been closer to the drug problem than you or most folks here
they have the death penalty for drugs in many countries........not free ones

you believe in freedom or you don't

how many here believe people should go to jail for selling or using drugs???
and how many of them drink alcohol?

....those people are hypocrits i must say

should the CEO of coka-cola be held responsible for my diabetes also??
no...i chose the drink a 12 pack a day plus my genetic predisposition

those that are habitual violent offenders sentenced to death
should be kept alive......for parts
with live donnors.....better matches can be made
cutting down on anti-rejection drugs

they can go on dialisis....they aren't going any where
some of their victims family might need a kidney
in fact take out all their kidnies....then if they escape they die