Author Topic: Worlds worst artillery piece ? (Read 1807 times)

dominick · « **on:** May 25, 2011, 07:49:37 AM »

Who in Military history made the worst cannon/mortar? I know machine guns are easy. The Chauchat [show show] machine gun usually takes top honors. Fiat Revelli for honorable mention. What about cannons?

seacoastartillery · « **Reply #1 on:** May 25, 2011, 08:48:14 AM »

How about the infamous Double-Barreled Cannon of Athens, Georgia? Despite good intentions, this was an idea way ahead of it's time (before advanced electronics to control precise ignition). The inventor and his helpers just couldn't get the tubes to fire simultaneously. The idea was to mow down hordes of enemy troops by having two cannon balls joined by a chain "harvest" them. The last experiment yielded the now famous story of the parted chain going with one ball to take down the log cabin's chimney and the other ball went wide to slaughter a surprised bovine.

While this gun was a bad idea, it's probably not the worst.

Mike and Tracy

Double the barrels, double the fun, right? From the Batteryb website.

keith44 · « **Reply #2 on:** May 25, 2011, 09:53:43 AM »

Any of the seemingly many wooden barreled cannons get my vote

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wooden_cannon

Artilleryman · « **Reply #3 on:** May 25, 2011, 11:12:40 AM »

I don't know about worst cannon, but the worst procedure had to be lighting a mortar shell and then firing the mortar.

dan610324 · « **Reply #4 on:** May 25, 2011, 11:23:06 AM »

the swedish leather cannon

keith44 · « **Reply #5 on:** May 25, 2011, 11:53:19 AM »

leather

I thought the wooden ones were a bad idea.

I gotta search that one...

Irish version is worse, search Mythbusters 2010 season episode 141. They build and attempt to fire both types

dan610324 · « **Reply #6 on:** May 25, 2011, 12:08:20 PM »

google for leather cannon

Rayfan87 · « **Reply #7 on:** May 25, 2011, 12:46:48 PM »

From the sound of both the wood and leather guns, once they got a few kinks worked out, they functioned as designed, so I'd hesitate to call them the worst pieces. Instead I would lean to one like the double barrel model, that was a failure to fill its intended role.

GGaskill · « **Reply #8 on:** May 25, 2011, 02:24:36 PM »

Maybe that 36 barrel rotary mortar in the Russian museum?

But I guess it depends on whether you are asking for worst design or worst execution.

seacoastartillery · « **Reply #9 on:** May 25, 2011, 02:45:10 PM »

What do you guys think about the one in the photo below? This image was sent to me by Terry C. of Waycross, Georgia about 3 years ago for identification. Mike and I both did quite a few searches, but had no luck. Maybe we will get lucky and one of you will tell us what it is and where it's located in this 1850s-1870s photo. I'm guessing it is another bad idea, because of gas leakage, and that it's also a rather large, 80 to 100 Pdr. Bad Idea weighing about 10,000 Lbs. I mean, look at the configuration of that breech closing mechanism. How, pray tell, do you build a carriage for THAT?

There's one guy on this board who is very good at the I.D. of odd ordnance. Virginia Beach Allen, What say you??

Mike and Tracy

All we know for sure about this gun is that it's testing location is very near Honest Abe's Used Car Lot and that he loves to tinker, himself, and he wanders over on a regular basis to offer advice to the "Ordnance Fellas".

dominick · « **Reply #10 on:** May 25, 2011, 02:47:35 PM »

Quote from: GGaskill on May 25, 2011, 02:24:36 PM

But I guess it depends on whether you are asking for worst design or worst execution.

I guess any category. If you look at the "10 worst" list of other items, such as cars, airplanes, guns, etc., They take into consideration the cost, design, execution, reliability, safety.

I can only imagine the thoughts going thru the gunner and crew of that 36 barrel mortar when they fired it.

dominick · « **Reply #11 on:** May 25, 2011, 02:52:42 PM »

Quote from: seacoastartillery on May 25, 2011, 02:45:10 PM

What do you guys think about the one in the photo below? This image was sent to me by Terry C. of Waycross, Georgia about 3 years ago for identification. Mike and I both did quite a few searches, but had no luck. Maybe we will get lucky and one of you will tell us what it is and where it's located in this 1850s-1870s photo. I'm guessing it is another bad idea, because of gas leakage, and that it's also a rather large, 80 to 100 Pdr. Bad Idea weighing about 10,000 Lbs. I mean, look at the configuration of that breech closing mechanism. How, pray tell, do you build a carriage for THAT?

There's one guy on this board who is very good at the I.D. of odd ordnance. Virginia Beach Allen, What say you??

Mike and Tracy

All we know for sure about this gun is that it's testing location is very near Honest Abe's Used Car Lot and that he loves to tinker, himself, and he wanders over on a regular basis to offer advice to the "Ordnance Fellas".

I think I seen a small cannon with a similar breech design somewhere. Looks like they have to hoist the barrel on that one to close the breech?

GGaskill · « **Reply #12 on:** May 25, 2011, 02:58:20 PM »

When you see a design like that, you wonder if the designer understood that the trunnions and links would have to withstand the forces from the breech pressure.

keith44 · « **Reply #13 on:** May 25, 2011, 03:47:59 PM »

Quote from: seacoastartillery on May 25, 2011, 02:45:10 PM

What do you guys think about the one in the photo below? This image was sent to me by Terry C. of Waycross, Georgia about 3 years ago for identification. Mike and I both did quite a few searches, but had no luck. Maybe we will get lucky and one of you will tell us what it is and where it's located in this 1850s-1870s photo. I'm guessing it is another bad idea, because of gas leakage, and that it's also a rather large, 80 to 100 Pdr. Bad Idea weighing about 10,000 Lbs. I mean, look at the configuration of that breech closing mechanism. How, pray tell, do you build a carriage for THAT?

There's one guy on this board who is very good at the I.D. of odd ordnance. Virginia Beach Allen, What say you??

Mike and Tracy

All we know for sure about this gun is that it's testing location is very near Honest Abe's Used Car Lot and that he loves to tinker, himself, and he wanders over on a regular basis to offer advice to the "Ordnance Fellas".

Ok hold up a sec. This is not a weapon. I would put this unit as it sets to use in determining the relative strength of varous powders and blends. If the barrel and swing are the calibrated mass, free recoil could be measured and recorded and give an estimate of the strength of following test powders.

The hole in my theory is the projectile sitting there ready to be loaded

Double D · « **Reply #14 on:** May 25, 2011, 04:38:53 PM »

How can we say it is a bad idea if we don't know what it is?

Cannoneer · « **Reply #15 on:** May 25, 2011, 05:11:33 PM »

To put it simply, this concept was much too advanced to ever be able to come to fruition in its own time, so 15th century rulers couldn’t even begin to understand the military importance of Leonardo da Vinci’s brilliant and original idea. Of course we can now readily discern that the lineage of our modern mobile armored fighting vehicles can be traced back directly to Leonardo’s fertile imagination.

Frank46 · « **Reply #16 on:** May 25, 2011, 06:04:26 PM »

I may be wrong but seem to remember (CRS again) that a gentleman from long island once posted a somewhat similar cannon with the links in the vintage photo.

. Frank

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #17 on:** May 25, 2011, 06:09:18 PM »

My vote for worst is for those cannons that explode. Whoever made them.

seacoastartillery · « **Reply #18 on:** May 25, 2011, 08:14:05 PM »

Frank, there’s nothing wrong with your memory. You are talking about Virginia Beach Allen our very own KABAR2 who used to live on Long Island and frequent haunts like Bannerman's retail outlet and mysterious swinging breech cannons, etc. Talk about memory, as much as we discussed that odd looking beast, I can't give you a name for it or a location either. There was even an armory photo of it on one of those heavy duty warehouse carts as well as some ammo stacked up.

Allen, where are you??

You have a point, Cat Whisperer. I am reading Siege Train now and it is very revealing about two things. One, this diary of Major Manigault, Siege Train Commander in Charleston, SC during the tremendous siege of Fort Sumter, etc., details all the cannons, smoothbore and rifled that blew up while in Confederate service for 13 months starting in July of 1863. The south had plenty of faulty ordnance including Brooke rifles. Two, Confederate artillerymen had to put up with a mind-numbing % of dud fuses and ‘failed at the muzzle’, defective shells. For long periods of time this % of defectives reached 80%!! Morale? What morale? These two below are my favorites from Seacoast’s Damaged and Blown-Up Cannon Contest.

T&M

Swampman correctly named the location here where this 15-Inch Rodman Gun blew up. Look familiar? It was VERY rare that a Rodman Gun blew up, still, you wonder, “what happened here?”

I can't remember who named the location for this blown-up 8-Inch mortar. I hate to think of what happened to that crew at French Fort Carillon on Lake Champlain in upstate New York when this mortar energetically disassembled.

Double D · « **Reply #19 on:** May 26, 2011, 04:18:10 AM »

Quote from: seacoastartillery on May 25, 2011, 08:14:05 PM

You are talking about Virginia Beach Allen our very own KABAR2 who used to live on Long Island and frequent haunts like Bannerman's retail outlet and mysterious swinging breech cannons, etc.

That's why he talked funny, the wife and I wondered.

subdjoe · « **Reply #20 on:** May 26, 2011, 04:30:36 AM »

I would have to nominate the railroad guns Dora and Gustav. 250 men taking 3 days to assemble a gun. 2500 men to lay the rails and dig embankments. Two flak battalions to ward off air attacks. All for 14 round/day. Way too much manpower for what you get.

KABAR2 · « **Reply #21 on:** May 26, 2011, 05:14:58 AM »

T&M I'm here and sometimes over younder......
I believe this is the link your looking for on the strap cannon,
the biggest problem with these guns is powder fowling
and gas leakage....
http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,139754.msg1098554147.html#msg1098554147

The worst cannon I ever saw was one listed on ebay the seller said it came from a college
that had been using it at their foot ball games...... the barrel was made of LEAD! I emailed
the seller and cautioned him that he was selling a handgrenade - a law suite waiting to happen.
he removed the listing. Sorry on photo.

Max Caliber · « **Reply #22 on:** May 26, 2011, 06:48:45 AM »

Quote from: seacoastartillery on May 25, 2011, 02:45:10 PM

What do you guys think about the one in the photo below? This image was sent to me by Terry C. of Waycross, Georgia about 3 years ago for identification. Mike and I both did quite a few searches, but had no luck. Maybe we will get lucky and one of you will tell us what it is and where it's located in this 1850s-1870s photo. I'm guessing it is another bad idea, because of gas leakage, and that it's also a rather large, 80 to 100 Pdr. Bad Idea weighing about 10,000 Lbs. I mean, look at the configuration of that breech closing mechanism. How, pray tell, do you build a carriage for THAT?

There's one guy on this board who is very good at the I.D. of odd ordnance. Virginia Beach Allen, What say you??

Mike and Tracy

All we know for sure about this gun is that it's testing location is very near Honest Abe's Used Car Lot and that he loves to tinker, himself, and he wanders over on a regular basis to offer advice to the "Ordnance Fellas".

That gun was invented by H. F. Mann, the Abe looking guy in the picture. One of his field guns of the same design, probably the only one made , is located at the New Market, Va. Battlefield.

http://www.hmdb.org/marker.asp?marker=551

http://www.nytimes.com/1865/05/03/news/dispatches-associated-press-test-new-cannon-lincoln-monument-washington.html

seacoastartillery · « **Reply #23 on:** May 26, 2011, 08:02:23 AM »

Thanks Allen. Thanks Max. You guys are sharp! I guess the Long Island strap gun is not really very similar to the H. F. Mann gun after all. A cannon made of lead?? Yikes! Only U-Tube cannoneers would dare fire a lead cannon. They are safety conscious in that they follow the 'One Caliber Rule'. They disqualify all tubes that swell out more than One Caliber after all that whacking on the steel loading rod with those big wooden mallets!! Nice to hear from you Allen. Max, you are very generous will your knowledge. Thank you so much. Now we have another cannon on our list of 'must see cannons' . Never have been to New Market Battlefield. Also an excuse to visit the East Coast moderator in Pulaski, VA. to see how bullet molds are made. H. F. Mann, mystery solved! I just figured out how to mount his big one. An extra set of trunnions at right angles would be just the ticket, with off-set sights, of course.

Tracy and Mike

Rayfan87 · « **Reply #24 on:** May 26, 2011, 10:21:08 AM »

Quote from: subdjoe on May 26, 2011, 04:30:36 AM

I would have to nominate the railroad guns Dora and Gustav. 250 men taking 3 days to assemble a gun. 2500 men to lay the rails and dig embankments. Two flak battalions to ward off air attacks. All for 14 round/day. Way too much manpower for what you get.

Along those same lines, at one point Saddam was trying to make one big enough to reach Israel from Iraq. They ended up catching most of it before it reached him, but you have to wonder if there ever would have been more than two or three shots fired before Israel took it out.

dan610324 · « **Reply #25 on:** May 26, 2011, 11:05:22 AM »

3 rounds could have been enough , it all depend whats in them .

KABAR2 · « **Reply #26 on:** May 26, 2011, 11:34:43 AM »

Quote from: Rayfan87 on May 26, 2011, 10:21:08 AM

Quote from: subdjoe on May 26, 2011, 04:30:36 AM
I would have to nominate the railroad guns Dora and Gustav. 250 men taking 3 days to assemble a gun. 2500 men to lay the rails and dig embankments. Two flak battalions to ward off air attacks. All for 14 round/day. Way too much manpower for what you get.
Along those same lines, at one point Saddam was trying to make one big enough to reach Israel from Iraq. They ended up catching most of it before it reached him, but you have to wonder if there ever would have been more than two or three shots fired before Israel took it out.

The big gun was never built but found in peices in Iraq....... the Mosade took out the designer in England after he refused to stop working on it......

Rayfan87 · « **Reply #27 on:** May 26, 2011, 11:59:09 AM »

Quote from: dan610324 on May 26, 2011, 11:05:22 AM

3 rounds could have been enough , it all depend whats in them .

Supposedly the largest one was able to have rocket assisted N/B/C rounds. When the range was supposed to be 1500 miles, you don't exactly have a big margin for error in aim. Look at the complication of hitting a target at one mile with a rifle. now factor in that this gun was going to be built into a hillside. Even if he had gotten all the pieces, there is a good chance construction would never have been finished.

1Southpaw · « **Reply #28 on:** May 26, 2011, 02:44:50 PM »

It appears that the lever on the right side is what tips the barrel . The breech looks to be way heavy in comparison to the muzzle end . The screw in rear of breach was probably a taper to lock every thing in to alinement . Still an odd looking arangement. Newton would have loved it .

seacoastartillery · « **Reply #29 on:** May 27, 2011, 01:19:33 PM »

Quote from: seacoastartillery on May 26, 2011, 08:02:23 AM

H. F. Mann, mystery solved! I just figured out how to mount his big one. An extra set of trunnions at right angles would be just the ticket, with off-set sights, of course.

Tracy and Mike

And you guys thought the old Infantryman was nuts for suggesting an extra set of trunnions for H. F. Mann's 8" Breechloader right? After snooping around on the Company of Military Historian's archives, I came across this photo from a John Morris quest to I.D. Breechloading cannon. This is one of John's photo's of the Brayton Breechloader, Model 1861. I think Mann could have profited from an association with Mr. George Brayton.

M&T