Wheels

[armorer77]

I spoke to my partner , the wood worker , about wheels and he thinks he can deliver . The question is what size ? This is a poll . What size is wanted most ? Armorer77

[rampa room artillery]

16 inch

[Double D]

Make a  real poll.

[dittles]

I'd say 16 to 18 inches. That's my two cents.

[Double D]

1/4 and 1/6th scale.

[armorer77]

Feel free to post what is other .

[seacoastartillery]

      Mike and I need a little help with an 1861 8" Siege Howitzer that we are building over the next year or so.  We are trying to determine which size wheel we would need to make a robust, maximum weight, stand-off scale gun at 22.5% of original size, which seems perfect to us.  We are planning on making this gun, and have purchased an excellent Ed Hart tube, but don't have a set of drawings yet, so the size of the wheels on the original is a mystery to us.

    Anybody know how big the siege carriage wheels are which support the 8" How., 32" How., 30 Pdr. Parrott and 4.5" Ordnance Rifle?

Mike & Tracy

[Double D]

      Mike and I need a little help with an 1861 8" Siege Howitzer that we are building over the next year or so.  We are trying to determine which size wheel we would need to make a robust, maximum weight, stand-off scale gun at 22.5% of original size, which seems perfect to us.  We are planning on making this gun, and have purchased an excellent Ed Hart tube, but don't have a set of drawings yet, so the size of the wheels on the original is a mystery to us.

    Anybody know how big the siege carriage wheels are which support the 8" How., 32" How., 30 Pdr. Parrott and 4.5" Ordnance Rifle?

Mike & Tracy

Yes, the  Garrison Siege wheels are 60 inch...complete drawing available in AOP plan set 84. About a 13.5 inch wheel at 22.5%

[seacoastartillery]

     Thanks Double D.  We really appreciate that; I think we are in pretty good company if we bump that size up to 14" instead of 13.5".  After all, this is going to be a shooting gun and a fun one too with all those Fox balls we have to shoot and maybe some zinc ones after that!  I think that stout, good looking, Ed Hart tube is about 35 Lbs, so the whole thing will be about 70 to 80 Lbs. which should be able to handle those steel whistlers with about 500 grains of Fg  BP yeilding about 900 to 950 F.P.S. with about two feet of recoil.  It's going to be a fun gun to watch, heavy enough where it will not be flipping over backward or doing summersaults!  It should recoil like a real siege gun, slowly, but forcefully!   We might even make the carriage out of solid steel for a little extra weight. 

     14" should be pretty popular with the guys who want to build a 1/4 scale 3" Ordnance rifle, or 10 Pdr. Parrott or a Bronze 6 Pdr. M1841.  Exact 1/4 scale of 57" is 14.25, but if 14" Artillery wheels are available, who's going to quibble?

Mike and Tracy

[Double D]

If you are going to bump up wheels you are going to have bump up everything on the carriage or the dangle of the angle will be wrong.   The trail will be to short and you will need a longer elevator or in the case of the siege carriage a larger quoin to get the barrel level.  The wheels, trail and ground form a right triangle

14 in wheels will need the rest of the siege-garrison carriage scaled to 23.3%.  For a 57 inch wheel scaled down to 14 inches reduce by 25.7%. 

A 1/4 scale wheel for a 57 inch field carriage wheel will be 14.25 inch.  A 1/4 scale Siege wheel will be 15 inches.

[seacoastartillery]

     Thanks Double D.  I made another search for my glasses.  Found 'em!  Ah yes 15" it is!  Thank you.  I doubt that 15" is going to be very popular so we will probably scale it up to 16", everything, that is.  We have enough tube weight to meet those requirements, so having wheels and carriage a little bigger will only help a bit with recoil.  Bonus!  Recalc of orig. figure, 22.5 % became 23.5%, so 15/16=.9375%, thus.....we will have a carriage of 24.438%.........as a stand-off scale project, we will call it 25%.  Any help with taming recoil is welcome.  Neither Mike nor I like back flipping or twitchy recoiling cannons.  Slow, but powerful enough to plow the soil is what we look for in a field or siege gun. 

Our pole answer is 16" wheel size.

Tracy

P.S.  How do you change your pole vote from "other" to 16"?  Ed, I doubt that it can be done, so just make a note.  Thanks.  DD will prove me wrong, just to do it.  Watch.

[dan610324]

how about making all the wood pieces for the carriage and use them as pattern for silicone molds ??
there is some silicone that can handle the heat of molten lead
then you would have it heavy enough 

I guess carwheel balancing weights would be hard enough for this purpose

[Double D]

     Thanks Double D.  I made another search for my glasses.  Found 'em!  Ah yes 15" it is!  Thank you.  I doubt that 15" is going to be very popular so we will probably scale it up to 16", everything, that is.  We have enough tube weight to meet those requirements, so having wheels and carriage a little bigger will only help a bit with recoil.  Bonus!  Recalc of orig. figure, 22.5 % became 23.5%, so 15/16=.9375%, thus.....we will have a carriage of 24.438%.........as a stand-off scale project, we will call it 25%.  Any help with taming recoil is welcome.  Neither Mike nor I like back flipping or twitchy recoiling cannons.  Slow, but powerful enough to plow the soil is what we look for in a field or siege gun. 

Our pole answer is 16" wheel size.

Tracy

P.S.  How do you change your pole vote from "other" to 16"?  Ed, I doubt that it can be done, so just make a note.  Thanks.  DD will prove me wrong, just to do it.  Watch.

...and there lays the problem.  As long as we have one of, non standard requirements we will never have a ready source of wheels

What we sorely need is  cannon makers who will build us tubes on a regular basis as standard inventory  to a standard scale.  If they do that then it shouldn't be hard to convince some one to make scale carriages...one hand feeds the other.  If there is a source of scale barrels then there is a reason to make scale carriages-wheels.  If there is a source for scale carriages-wheels then there is a reason to make scale barrels.  Barrel makers will find increased sales for their product if there are carriages-wheels available for there barrels and vice versa.

If a carriage maker knows a certain barrel maker makes his barrels to set scale then he can make carriages to that same scale and the barrel should pretty much drop in.

Right now each sponsor makes barrels to their own non standard dimensions, no two exactly the same.  This requires each barrel to have a custom made carriage. This just ads to the expense to the customer, if he can't make his own carriage.   The customer will have a have to try to find a carriage-wheel maker willing to work to the odd size. Carriage makers are unlikely even make such a carriage.  This puts customers off. 

The reason the sponsors sell barrels is because not everyone is capable of building there own barrel. Well not everyone is capable of building the own carriage either.   If carriages were available for sponsors barrels then their  sales would increase.

We need some standardization.

[Zulu]

A ship's carriage that you are proud of will cost more than your barrel.  A field carriage that you are proud of will be "considerably" more than the barrel.
There are very few folks that are willing to shell out the money.
You get what you pay for.
Zulu

[Double D]

I agree about a finished carriage.  Even a roughed out one won't be cheap.

It  will be cheaper  for a carriage maker working to a set scale to make a run of parts for 20 carriages than to custom make one to odd measurements

[rampa room artillery]

I second that ,  all my stuff lately has been one offs.      i have been trying to get some hardware builders to stard doing 1/4 scale castings.  but they just dont see  the money in it. or they are just front men for chinese cast parts.  not that i am dissing there parts. like cannon parts ltd.   the stuff looks great. and works.  and good prices.  but i am not one to put chinese made parts on a gun.   
   rick bryan

[Zulu]

I agree about a finished carriage.  Even a roughed out one won't be cheap.

It  will be cheaper  for a carriage maker working to a set scale to make a run of parts for 20 carriages than to custom make one to odd measurements

If a carriage maker made 20 carriages and one of them didn't fit the barrel, the carriage maker would be blamed.
I hate that part.
Zulu

[rampa room artillery]

but i need to order 6   20 inch wheels soon.  but i think i am going with 24 inch wheels  i found a builder that makes nice correct wheels, that are more expensive alot more expensive. but they are worth it if they are built right.   not just some small wagon wheels.    I would order 16 inch wheels but no one makes nice ones.

     how soon is this guy going to be building?  I can order 6 to 10 wheels today if the quality/ price is right.

 for a 16 inch correct wheel  i could see spending 125 dollars a wheel 

rickbryan

[Double D]

I agree about a finished carriage.  Even a roughed out one won't be cheap.

It  will be cheaper  for a carriage maker working to a set scale to make a run of parts for 20 carriages than to custom make one to odd measurements

If a carriage maker made 20 carriages and one of them didn't fit the barrel, the carriage maker would be blamed.
I hate that part.
Zulu

Not if he made them to scale from the plans and they were correct.  That's the whole idea of mass production and the whole idea behind this.

If both the cannon maker and the barrel maker were working from the same plans then it would only take a couple of measurements to tell which piece was wrong. Again that is the whole idea of this. That's how all those civil war artillery pieces were made.  Carriage maker made carriage and barrel  makers made barrels and the two were mated

Standardization is something that is needed to make this hobby flourish.  We have the AOP plans and there is not one reason that they couldn't be used by both barrel makers and carriage makers to solve this problem. 


 

[Double D]

but i need to order 6   20 inch wheels soon.  but i think i am going with 24 inch wheels  i found a builder that makes nice correct wheels, that are more expensive alot more expensive. but they are worth it if they are built right.   not just some small wagon wheels.    I would order 16 inch wheels but no one makes nice ones.

     how soon is this guy going to be building?  I can order 6 to 10 wheels today if the quality/ price is right.

 for a 16 inch correct wheel  i could see spending 125 dollars a wheel 

rickbryan

Rick I have been talking with the fellow that gunsonwheels recommended.  He is going to make me a pair of  custom 19 inch wheels for right around $300 including shipping.  http://www.customwagons.com/   

[armorer77]

I saw the prototype today , still needs work but he is headed in the right direction  .