Author Topic: I want a medium/light general purpose rifle... (Read 2609 times)

Squib · « **on:** May 30, 2011, 11:21:42 AM »

I'm thinking .243 for squirrel to coyote (and any other random varmints in between) with frangible rounds (past 50yds, within 50 I use .22lr), coyote and deer with 75-100grs bullets up to 300yds. I've seen a couple good recipes for subsonic 100gr bullets that might be good for 100yds shots using trailboss.

I have a .308 bolt gun BUT I do NOT want to try the 90-125gr bullets for varmints as they aren't likely to disintegrate and could cause lots of collateral damage due to pass through if they even hit the target due to poor exterior ballistics. not to mention lots of drop and a total lack of penetration on a subsonic 30 cal... a 6mm might be able to hit the center/inside of a deer though. special considerations for loading up for a handi come into play as well. I'm poor so I need cheap, a rem 770 or savage axis could work but handi's are easy to break-in, customize, rebarrel, etcetera and the triggers aren't hard at all to break in (I used lighter fluid to dry mine out and dry fired it about ten times on a used case, then oiled it up, superb since). am I going to be able to get good case life on .243 from a handi? all I have and load for in handi's is .45-70 but that's a straight wall case so it's really hard to screw up ANYTHING in regards to case stretch and resizing and such. also do rimless extract well enough to get a quick follow up shot?

bikerbeans · « **Reply #1 on:** May 30, 2011, 12:25:10 PM »

Squib,

I'll just answer the extraction question. I have never had a rimless round fail to extract in a Handi, even when the case was dirty or the load hot. I have had a few 270 Win rounds that took a little effort to open the gun but once it opened and the extractor pushed the shell loose it came out easily. A FTE is a more common issue with a ejector style barrel. Also, there is a modification in the FAQs, to increase the stroke of the extractor to make the case easily to grab.

If you had limited your deer range to 200 yards I would have suggested a 357 Maxi.

BB

Dinny · « **Reply #2 on:** May 30, 2011, 12:25:26 PM »

I use a .243 more than any other bottleneck caliber. It has provided all the versatility I could ever need. 55gr CT and 58gr V-Maxes for varmints including coyotes and 85gr Barnes TSXs or Sierra GKs for deer. If you're concerned about follow-up shots, you could use a 100gr bullet or just practice shooting more under simulated field conditions. A Handi rifle is a fine choice for someone on a budget.

Check out the Hornady Superformance ammo. I have such good accuracy from them that I don't hardly even reload my .243.

Thanks, Dinny

gendoc · « **Reply #3 on:** May 30, 2011, 12:40:42 PM »

243's and 270's are great..... gotta few other kinds and they have there place in my fleet.
from what your say'n... you could do all you want wifa .223 or hornet except the 300yrd thing

which ain't bout to happen to often.....shot placement wise for a humane kill... you really got to be up on your scope's brains to figure your trajectory on a 300 yrd shot with less than a magnum caliber when also shooting @ 50-100yrds.
hey thats just my theory... which is proven in the field of my adventures.
others might argue that statement, but... like i said thats my onion..........

and opinions are like your rear-end...everybodies got one

Squib · « **Reply #4 on:** May 30, 2011, 12:56:10 PM »

the .308 rem 700 is good to 300yds at least with most of my handloads BUT to get that far I'm using mid to heavier bullets in 30 cal, no way with small coyotes and smaller critters on farmland populated by cows, next to a pig farm, where a shoot through could have real consequences. truth be told few spots allow a long shot like that, but I want the capability with a flat shooting varmint cartridge. for 100-300 on deer .308 is good to go for me, and within 100yds my iron sight handi 45/70 is fine, so the deer issue isn't a huge deal, I have deer to 300yds covered, I just WANT my varmint gun to be capable of body shot lethality. What really gets me is the 8-15grs trailboss with a 100gr speer (btsp I think) from 1045 to 16xx fps... that could be really quiet and penetrate well within 100 with a thorough load work-up. downloaded .308 is still 1600fps to my knowledge (without risking squib) and wouldn't be so great (slower but better penetration than .357 mag from a rifle). can you imagine "puffing" or "popping" does just about 1100fps and not totally scaring all the bucks around, the does could even smell right if there is no blood-trail due to a REALLY precise headshot or heartshot that's DRT. a little narrow, pointy, 100gr 6mm might do that job, I think it can, if not 3,000 fps does when supersonic is no concern. Good for coyotes too I think? bust two before the rest understand that the sound of distant, muffled thunder isn't

.243 light/varmint bullets aren't terrible (exterior) ballistically, .308 read to be (on paper they suck, BAD). they're light enough to not shoot through and retain much energy if they fail to open for whatever reason as well. ps- I really do want to try hitting tiny things like squirrels with a centerfire sometime soon. stalking up to 50yds or closer with a .22lr is getting old, I feel confident I can do better with a centerfire but as stated before, .308 is a solid no in that regard.

dave29 · « **Reply #5 on:** May 30, 2011, 01:02:48 PM »

Will the Handi twist rate of a .243 stabilize a varity of 55-100 grain bullets?

gendoc · « **Reply #6 on:** May 30, 2011, 01:05:28 PM »

ok, all i can say to you is....... go try your prospects. your land varies than mine so, let us know your results. enjoy the research and good luck

Dinny · « **Reply #7 on:** May 30, 2011, 01:26:54 PM »

Quote from: dave29 on May 30, 2011, 01:02:48 PM

Will the Handi twist rate of a .243 stabilize a varity of 55-100 grain bullets?

Every rifle will vary a little, but I shoot a 1:10" twisted Weatherby SPM, the same twist as the Handi, with excellent results in that weight range. A 1:12" twist would be better for the lightweights, but may not shoot the 100 grainers very well.

Thanks, Dinny

Squib · « **Reply #8 on:** May 30, 2011, 01:29:40 PM »

using a handi to poke/fragment is totally new to me. trying to figure out barrel twist, breech flex, chamber dimension peculiarities specific to H&R, etcetera is something I'll leave up to the less ignorant guys here.

how about barrel twist from one year to the next, and on different models currently in production. also, stainless vs blue/carbon steel barrels of current production. any differences? where's quicktdoo when needed? QUICK!

dinny: I'm patient with deer, but I've seen then take a bit to die after catastrophic damage with a lot more powerful rounds, so I'm mainly asking about the accuracy potential with a .243/handi combo AND the penetrative power of the heavier constructed bullets moving about 3000fps. do you think the subsonic idea is viable within 100yds?

Dinny · « **Reply #9 on:** May 30, 2011, 06:53:18 PM »

Quote from: Squib on May 30, 2011, 01:29:40 PM

dinny: do you think the subsonic idea is viable within 100yds?

JMHO...if using a subsonic load, I prefer a wide diameter/big-bore caliber that leaves a large hole for good bloodflow. They also tend to hold their momentum much better and penetrate better. Personally, I would not use a subsonic 6mm on deer.

Thanks, Dinny

Squib · « **Reply #10 on:** July 05, 2011, 07:40:26 PM »

I got the gun... although I was/am prohibited from guns or videogames until we're married due to financial issues (although maintenance supplies and .22lr ammo are still okay) I was able to pick up a SB2-SL5.. short and thin barreled .243, the forend is normal synthetic (well fitted too), and the stock appears to be the same as the .17hmr sportster (monte carlo, but shaped and textured mostly like a standard synthetic "straight"). the frame does NOT have the big pin above the little one (holding the trigger guard I think). the ejector doesn't do a thing till the gun is completely open but it's a violent pop when it does go, the trigger is real light. it's not crisp, kind of spongy- predictable release but I can not feel it "click". my finger just falls through it as soon as I tense up my finger (I can get ahold of it just fine with no fear, but as soon as I attempt to "take-up" I go right through it). unless this barrel is suffering from some mid-barrel rifling defect it HAS to shoot good, the fit and finish are overall very good and very smooth, the trigger is on par with my rem 700 safequeen.
now how did I pick it up without getting in trouble from the soon to be spouse...? she paid for it! it was a wedding gift! now if I can just get her to get me a nikon buckmaster for a dowry I'll be all set

gcrank1 · « **Reply #11 on:** July 07, 2011, 05:51:50 AM »

Thats OK....you WILL pay later........

Squib · « **Reply #12 on:** July 07, 2011, 06:07:08 AM »

pay for.... fancy shoes or something? maybe.

geezerbiker · « **Reply #13 on:** July 07, 2011, 07:33:15 AM »

I suggest you read the book "The Grasshopper Trap" cover to cover. There's a few things in there a new married guy just has to know...

Tony

Squib · « **Reply #14 on:** July 07, 2011, 09:51:54 AM »

I'm gonna be reading loading manuals, and overtime pay stubs to pay for loading components

cjrjck · « **Reply #15 on:** July 07, 2011, 10:02:28 AM »

As already mentioned, you could offer to buy her something of equal value, you know "quid pro quo" or in your case, "squib pro quo", but you will be starting a tradition you may come to regret years down the road. I would just tell her you bought the gun for her, to get her interested in one of your favorite endeavors, and then just offer to take the gun out every now and then as a favor to her.

BBF · « **Reply #16 on:** July 07, 2011, 11:47:34 AM »

Yep, that go over just as good as the new vacuum sweeper the guy bought for his wife's B-Day.

gcrank1 · « **Reply #17 on:** July 07, 2011, 02:48:25 PM »

I bought my wife a wheelbarrow and new shovel (true story, I swear!), then made the mistake of offering to 'teach' her how to be an excavation equipment operator.....
As she tells her side of it now, the front steps 'we' put in almost had me buried beneath.
Oh yeah, yu gonna pay......

dpe.ahoy · « **Reply #18 on:** July 07, 2011, 04:41:05 PM »

Trust these true words of wisdom from these wise gentlemen.

And congrats on the rifle. DP

Jal5 · « **Reply #19 on:** July 10, 2011, 02:14:07 AM »

Enjoy your rifle. 243 Win is a lot of fun and versatile too for your purposes. Keep your lady happy with lots of TLC and you will be all fine! My wife has her hobbies and I have mine, and sometimes we can share them. But the shooting sports can be #@$ on a budget!
Joe

Squib · « **Reply #20 on:** July 10, 2011, 06:34:50 AM »

yeah, I am still trying to find good clear optics and good mounts for a reasonable price. bushnell and burris have some deals that look good, though I've not had many examples to judge in person. in person nikon seems to kick butt, and I can get a buckmasters 4.5-14x40mmSF for $300 plus tax so try as I might, that may be what I have to buy. I'm thinking burris z-rings to mount it on my factory scope rail, hopefully I don't need the hammer extension because it feels awkward when I cock the hammer, like I'm putting undo torque on the hammer when I cock it. one other thing to consider is the light/youth/tapered barrel has a huge dip right after the chamber so I could probably mount a 50mm objective fairly low... I feel like I'm handicapping myself if I don't take advantage of that, but then again this gun feels ''handi", nice and light, so maybe I shouldn't get a fat scope. I don't know what to do... and if I'm not happy the first time then I'll end up getting two or three scopes till I feel like I'm "set", plus dies and bullets... $$$$ I don't have right now.

Dinny · « **Reply #21 on:** July 10, 2011, 08:40:53 AM »

Simple solution, prioritize!

Thanks, Dinny

Squib · « **Reply #22 on:** July 10, 2011, 08:45:46 AM »

NOT SO, FOR I AM INDECISIVE!

Dinny · « **Reply #23 on:** July 10, 2011, 08:58:15 AM »

Quote from: Squib on July 10, 2011, 08:45:46 AM

NOT SO, FOR I AM INDECISIVE!

Nevermind then...

I tried....

Thanks, Dinny

Squib · « **Reply #24 on:** July 10, 2011, 09:03:59 AM »

Quote from: Dinny on July 10, 2011, 08:58:15 AM

Quote from: Squib on July 10, 2011, 08:45:46 AM
NOT SO, FOR I AM INDECISIVE!

Nevermind then...

that's all a gun nut can do! I have a list of scopes I'm thinking of, it's just an issue of hand-wringing on which to actually buy. the funny thing is that I found a virtually perfect one for my 45-70 though. I wish that would happen for this one... what about the rings at least, are zee/z/? good to go?

Dinny · « **Reply #25 on:** July 10, 2011, 09:10:40 AM »

I wasn't referring to prioritizing just the scopes, but everything that you are juggling right now. When we juggle our life tasks, we are actually juggling glass and rubber balls. If you drop a rubber ball, it will bounce and you can grab it and start juggling it again. If you drop a glass ball, it breaks never to be juggled again. ~~Don't make her a glass ball.~~

She IS a glass ball, don't let her drop.

Or else, You WILL pay!

Thanks, Dinny

I had to edit that after a moment of thought.

Actually my wife reminded me that she is a glass ball...

Squib · « **Reply #26 on:** July 10, 2011, 09:38:34 AM »

we're good. the wedding stuff is all paid for, except the ring I got her, which will be paid off this month. I'll have money "on the way" that can get the rings, scope, dies and bullets IF I go bottom dollar. if not, I can get all but the scope and wait... I oil my guns so it won't rust away. I just don't want to wait and accrue money for an expensive scope, especially if I can get my rifle set-up quick and cheap- and NOT be sorry for it later. from what i read online the burris fullfield and bushnell xlt may the best low dollar scopes for me. I don't need a $300 nikon (4.5-14x40mm SF), but can I be happy with a 3-9x40 or 50 that is maybe not quite as crisp and lacking some parallax and zoom adjustment? Probably, but I want advice before I go to some shops ready to inspect and buy.

if you're that worried about me, you can send me a set of dies to keep my costs down

Dinny · « **Reply #27 on:** July 10, 2011, 09:51:34 AM »

Quote from: Squib on July 10, 2011, 09:38:34 AM

if you're that worried about me, you can send me a set of dies to keep my costs down

How about I send a copy of my die set?

And a wrench....

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,237034.0.html

Thanks, Dinny

BBF · « **Reply #28 on:** July 10, 2011, 10:55:35 AM »

Guy:
I don't know why you sweat the hammer extension. It will not put any amount of torque on it to worry about. You can put it on the left or right side. I'm a south paw so the extension should face right to operate with my thumb but I can also have the extension face left and use my index finger. Both setups work for me.

BTW IMO That lightweight barrel is going to give you way more conniptions then the extension, rings or scope combined.

Squib · « **Reply #29 on:** July 10, 2011, 04:43:55 PM »

why? I've heard that they aren't always stellar without a bit of forend work, this one has a good fit and feel all around. are the thins pickier with load/accuracy issues? worse case scenario it's a 1.5moa gun, not at all what I want but it could be dealt with.