Author Topic: 5 Myths About American Schools  (Read 2885 times)

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Offline XD40SC

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5 Myths About American Schools
« on: June 01, 2011, 05:53:55 AM »
 RSS Text Size Print Share This Home / news / opinion / 5 myths about fixing Am erica's schools
By PAUL FARHI
Published: May 29, 2011
» 2 Comments | Post a Comment
The end of the school year and the layoffs of tens of thousands of teachers are bringing more attention to reformers' calls to remake public schools. Today's school reform movement conflates the motivations and agendas of politicians seeking re-election, religious figures looking to spread the faith and bureaucrats trying to save a dime. Despite an often earnest desire to help our nation's children, reformers have spread some fundamental misunderstandings about public education.

(1) Our schools are failing.

It's true that schools with large numbers of low-income and English-as-a-second-language students don't perform as well as those with lots of middle- and upper-middle-class students who speak only English. But the demonization of some schools as "dropout factories" masks an important achievement: The percentage of Americans earning a high school diploma has been rising for 30 years. According to the Department of Education, the percentage of 16- to 24-year-olds who were not enrolled in school and hadn't earned a diploma or its equivalent fell to 8 percent in 2008.

Average SAT and ACT scores are also up, even with many more — and more diverse — test-takers. On international exams such as the Trends in International Mathematics and Science Study, U.S. elementary and middle school students have improved since 1995 and rank near the top among developed countries. Americans do lag behind students in Asian nations such as Singapore, Taiwan, Hong Kong, South Korea and Japan on these tests, but so do Europeans. The gap in math and science scores may be an East-West divide.

(2) Unions defend bad teachers.

Unions have proved amenable to removing the bad apples in their ranks — with due process. Montgomery County, Md., for instance, implemented its Peer Assistance and Review program with union cooperation a decade ago. It requires every new teacher and those flagged as "underperforming" by a principal to be observed by a specialist over a school year. All teachers get support, advice and a chance to do better; then they are re-evaluated. Those who fall short lose their jobs. Between 2006 and 2010, 245 teachers resigned or were dismissed. Many districts have similar programs, but, as a Harvard study pointed out, they are expensive.

Reformers who attack unions for school problems should mind their logic: Some school systems show better results than others, yet most have teachers' unions. If unions are universally problematic, why are some students succeeding while others languish?

(3) Billionaires know best.

Bill Gates, real estate developer Eli Broad and Facebook chief Mark Zuckerberg have made massive financial contributions to public schools to promote pay-for-performance programs, which reward teachers with bonuses when their students do better on standardized tests. They argue that merit pay creates the same incentives for public-sector employees that bonuses do in the private sector.

But the emerging research on merit pay for teachers disputes that.

In a three-year, $10 million study released last fall, Vanderbilt University researchers found no significant difference in performance between students who were taught by middle-school teachers eligible for cash bonuses and those who weren't. That's no surprise to most teachers; they know that teamwork is key to success. Individual pay-for-performance schemes create the opposite incentive, fostering competition, not collaboration.

Despite this, Gates alone is investing $290 million over seven years in schools in Memphis, Tampa, Pittsburgh and Los Angeles. Zuckerberg has endorsed New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie's merit-pay agenda by pledging $100 million over the next five years to Newark's schools, whose budget this year is $940 million.

There's no doubt that these schools can use every dime that rich guys give. But attaching strings for pet projects is elitist and wasteful.

(4) Charter schools are the answer.

President Obama certainly thinks so. He has said that state limits on the number of charter schools aren't "good for our children, our economy or our country." He and Education Secretary Arne Duncan want more charters — taxpayer-supported schools that operate independently of traditional public school systems. About 1.5 million children, or 3 percent of public school students, attended a charter school this past school year. Some have outperformed their non-charter peers, particularly in inner cities.

Credit for that may rest solely with the students, however. Charter school students are among the most motivated, as are their parents, who sought an alternative education for their children and mastered the intricacies of admission.

And siphoning off those better students through choice may create the same disastrous effect as de facto segregation through the geography of poverty — it leaves behind those least able to advocate for themselves and most susceptible to falling through the cracks.

All for results that are not uniformly impressive: A 2010 study of 2,330 middle-school students at charter schools in 15 states found that they performed no better in math and science. And a Stanford University study in 2009 concluded: "Nearly half of the charter schools nationwide have results that are no different from the local public school options, and over a third, 37 percent, deliver learning results that are significantly worse than their students would have realized had they remained in traditional public schools."

(5) More effective teachers are the answer.

Former D.C. schools chief Michelle Rhee and other big-city superintendents called for more effective teachers in a reform "manifesto" published in The Washington Post last fall.

Well, sure. Who doesn't want more effective teachers? While we're at it, let's get more effective superintendents, curriculum specialists and principals, too.

Let's be realistic: Teachers aren't miracle workers. There's only so much they can do to address problems that troubled students bring to class every day, including neglect, abuse and unaddressed medical and mental health issues. The obvious and subtle ways that poverty inhibits a child's ability to learn — from hearing, visual and dental problems to higher asthma rates to diminished verbal interaction in the home — have been well-documented.

So let's seek to improve the state of families. Attacking schools and teachers makes everyone feel like a reformer, but the problems begin long before a child steps through the schoolhouse door.

Modified to remove strikethrough.  duk

Offline beerbelly

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Re: 5 Myths About American Schools
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2011, 07:15:28 AM »
Unions defend bad teachers.
True

The percentage of Americans earning a high school diploma has been rising for 30 years
Because they are not required to accomplish any thing to get a diploma! And you are a racist if you fail a minority.

Offline dukkillr

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Re: 5 Myths About American Schools
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2011, 07:38:51 AM »
Quote
(2) Unions defend bad teachers.

Unions have proved amenable to removing the bad apples in their ranks — with due process. Montgomery County, Md., for instance, implemented its Peer Assistance and Review program with union cooperation a decade ago. It requires every new teacher and those flagged as "underperforming" by a principal to be observed by a specialist over a school year. All teachers get support, advice and a chance to do better; then they are re-evaluated. Those who fall short lose their jobs. Between 2006 and 2010, 245 teachers resigned or were dismissed. Many districts have similar programs, but, as a Harvard study pointed out, they are expensive.

Reformers who attack unions for school problems should mind their logic: Some school systems show better results than others, yet most have teachers' unions. If unions are universally problematic, why are some students succeeding while others languish?

Oh, well I'm sold then.  How silly of me.  You see since some schools do better than others, and all have unions, the unions must not be the problem right?  Are you kidding me?  If this guy is stupid enough to think this passes as a winning argument he must have graduated from one of those failing schools.  I'd like to ask him this:

Right before the local highschools run their 100 meter dash at the next track meet I'm going to make all runners put on a 20lb backpack.  Here's what's going to happen.  Someone's going to run fastest, and win the race.  Since he ran faster than the others can we conclude that the extra weight did not slow him down?  Are you seriously considering that question?  That some schools do better than others with unions is obvious.  Some schools start with better kids.  Some have better parents.  Some have better administrators, facilities, resources, etc... 

I'm genuinely at a loss for how unbearably stupid this author must thing his readers are... or, if it wasn't an effort to deceive us, how stupid he must be.

Offline XD40SC

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Re: 5 Myths About American Schools
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2011, 08:12:40 AM »
Quote
(2) Unions defend bad teachers.

Unions have proved amenable to removing the bad apples in their ranks — with due process. Montgomery County, Md., for instance, implemented its Peer Assistance and Review program with union cooperation a decade ago. It requires every new teacher and those flagged as "underperforming" by a principal to be observed by a specialist over a school year. All teachers get support, advice and a chance to do better; then they are re-evaluated. Those who fall short lose their jobs. Between 2006 and 2010, 245 teachers resigned or were dismissed. Many districts have similar programs, but, as a Harvard study pointed out, they are expensive.

Reformers who attack unions for school problems should mind their logic: Some school systems show better results than others, yet most have teachers' unions. If unions are universally problematic, why are some students succeeding while others languish?

Oh, well I'm sold then.  How silly of me.  You see since some schools do better than others, and all have unions, the unions must not be the problem right?  Are you kidding me?  If this guy is stupid enough to think this passes as a winning argument he must have graduated from one of those failing schools.  I'd like to ask him this:

Right before the local highschools run their 100 meter dash at the next track meet I'm going to make all runners put on a 20lb backpack.  Here's what's going to happen.  Someone's going to run fastest, and win the race.  Since he ran faster than the others can we conclude that the extra weight did not slow him down?  Are you seriously considering that question?  That some schools do better than others with unions is obvious.  Some schools start with better kids.  Some have better parents.  Some have better administrators, facilities, resources, etc... 

I'm genuinely at a loss for how unbearably stupid this author must thing his readers are... or, if it wasn't an effort to deceive us, how stupid he must be.
How do you feel about his 4 other points?

Offline dukkillr

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Re: 5 Myths About American Schools
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2011, 08:16:54 AM »
Can we agree that Point 2 is comically stupid and that a person who would put forth such an absurd argument must be considered at arms reach?

Why is point 5 crossed out?

Offline XD40SC

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Re: 5 Myths About American Schools
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2011, 08:24:26 AM »
Can we agree that Point 2 is comically stupid and that a person who would put forth such an absurd argument must be considered at arms reach?

Why is point 5 crossed out?
don't know- that's how it printed out. Tried to fix it but couldn't.

Offline XD40SC

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Re: 5 Myths About American Schools
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2011, 08:25:55 AM »
Did you say how you felt about the other 4 points. If so I missed it.

Offline dukkillr

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Re: 5 Myths About American Schools
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2011, 08:28:53 AM »
Can we agree that Point 2 is comically stupid and that a person who would put forth such an absurd argument must be considered at arms reach?

Why is point 5 crossed out?
don't know- that's how it printed out. Tried to fix it but couldn't.
I asked two questions, you answered 1.  If we can't have an honest discussion I won't waste my energy.  Frankly, if the roles were reversed, I'd be embarrased to have put forth such a poorly thought out idea in support of my own beliefs.  If we can agree that this guy is either an idiot, or he thinks we are idiots, I'd be happy to continue the discussion.

Offline XD40SC

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Re: 5 Myths About American Schools
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2011, 08:47:17 AM »
Can we agree that Point 2 is comically stupid and that a person who would put forth such an absurd argument must be considered at arms reach?

Why is point 5 crossed out?
don't know- that's how it printed out. Tried to fix it but couldn't.
I asked two questions, you answered 1.  If we can't have an honest discussion I won't waste my energy.  Frankly, if the roles were reversed, I'd be embarrased to have put forth such a poorly thought out idea in support of my own beliefs.  If we can agree that this guy is either an idiot, or he thinks we are idiots, I'd be happy to continue the discussion.
Once again your thought process eludes me. I must agree with you to have a worthwhile discussion[ in your eyes]. Is that how you negotiate where you work.??? Next time you criticize others for how they discuss topics- take a good look at your elitism.  I'm the one not willing to waste my time- thank you very much. Oh and yes I know why you won't answer how you feel about the other questions- diversion tactic didn't work.

Offline dukkillr

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Re: 5 Myths About American Schools
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2011, 09:54:35 AM »
Can we agree that Point 2 is comically stupid and that a person who would put forth such an absurd argument must be considered at arms reach?

Why is point 5 crossed out?
don't know- that's how it printed out. Tried to fix it but couldn't.
I asked two questions, you answered 1.  If we can't have an honest discussion I won't waste my energy.  Frankly, if the roles were reversed, I'd be embarrased to have put forth such a poorly thought out idea in support of my own beliefs.  If we can agree that this guy is either an idiot, or he thinks we are idiots, I'd be happy to continue the discussion.
Once again your thought process eludes me. I must agree with you to have a worthwhile discussion[ in your eyes]. Is that how you negotiate where you work.??? Next time you criticize others for how they discuss topics- take a good look at your elitism.  I'm the one not willing to waste my time- thank you very much. Oh and yes I know why you won't answer how you feel about the other questions- diversion tactic didn't work.
Some of the people I respect most in this world don't agree with me.  I believe to truly understand an opinion you have to openly put it up against great minds who disagree.  Perhaps that's why I like what I do for a living.  You, nor anyone, has to agree wiht the substance of anything I say, or anyone else says.  But when you go to challenge your beliefs against others the process doesn't work if it's intellectually dishonest.  That is, if both parties are trying to trick the other one you are not getting an honest evaluation.  In my opinion that is what is happening here, and I said so in my first post.  Now I could be wrong, although you've made no attempt to say so.  Or I could be right (and I don't think it's a close call).  If, in your opinion, I'm right the value would be that we have an honest basis with which to evaluate this post.  That is to say, we both acknowledging that this piece was poorly written and some of the points should be discounted as if they were put forth by an idiot.  Still, perhaps there is some merit somewhere.  If, on the other hand, you're wanting to stand by the piece, and the author, in it's entirety, it's an entirely different discussion, and probably not one I'm willing to spend my time on.

If it makes you feel better to insult me you're not alone...  However, if you take your fourth sentence and then consider your sixth sentence... hmmm...  I'll let others draw their own conclusions...

Offline XD40SC

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Re: 5 Myths About American Schools
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2011, 10:28:45 AM »
Can we agree that Point 2 is comically stupid and that a person who would put forth such an absurd argument must be considered at arms reach?

Why is point 5 crossed out?
don't know- that's how it printed out. Tried to fix it but couldn't.
I asked two questions, you answered 1.  If we can't have an honest discussion I won't waste my energy.  Frankly, if the roles were reversed, I'd be embarrased to have put forth such a poorly thought out idea in support of my own beliefs.  If we can agree that this guy is either an idiot, or he thinks we are idiots, I'd be happy to continue the discussion.
Once again your thought process eludes me. I must agree with you to have a worthwhile discussion[ in your eyes]. Is that how you negotiate where you work.??? Next time you criticize others for how they discuss topics- take a good look at your elitism.  I'm the one not willing to waste my time- thank you very much. Oh and yes I know why you won't answer how you feel about the other questions- diversion tactic didn't work.
Some of the people I respect most in this world don't agree with me.  I believe to truly understand an opinion you have to openly put it up against great minds who disagree.  Perhaps that's why I like what I do for a living.  You, nor anyone, has to agree wiht the substance of anything I say, or anyone else says.  But when you go to challenge your beliefs against others the process doesn't work if it's intellectually dishonest.  That is, if both parties are trying to trick the other one you are not getting an honest evaluation.  In my opinion that is what is happening here, and I said so in my first post.  Now I could be wrong, although you've made no attempt to say so.  Or I could be right (and I don't think it's a close call).    Still, perhaps there is some merit somewhere.  If, on the other hand, you're wanting to stand by the piece, and the author, in it's entirety, it's an entirely different discussion, and probably not one I'm willing to spend my time on.


If it makes you feel better to insult me you're not alone...  However, if you take your fourth sentence and then consider your sixth sentence... hmmm...  I'll let others draw their own conclusions...
I think you are at the mercy of your profession. By that I mean, you are always looking for a trick, catch, hook etc. even when there isn't one. I just asked a question- you did the assuming- and you were mistaken. I did answer one of them and thought you would answer the next. We aren't writing contracts that will take advantage of someone if something is omitted. Sometime you just need to take things at face value. And that concludes the lesson for the day.

Offline gomerdog

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Re: 5 Myths About American Schools
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2011, 04:15:18 PM »
This discussion seems to have switched from myths about American schools to a discussion about teacher unions. So, as a teacher who belongs to a union, I will, at the risk of getting tarred and feathered, offer my insights.

Right off the bat something needs to be understood. Teachers’ unions are not professional development organizations as I have heard numerous union representatives claim. “We’re here for kids,” they say. Well, yes, but not by providing professional development for teachers. Any teacher organization advocates for better working conditions and higher compensation for their members. Sound like a professional development organization to you? However, better working conditions and higher wages attract better teachers…it’s that simple. They also attract poor teachers. (Yes, there are poor teachers, just as in any profession.) Is it the teacher unions’ responsibility to weed out poor teachers or is it the responsibility of school administrators?

Which brings up the subject of tenure. In most states, a teacher achieves tenure at the end of three to five years (depends on the state). Before that time, when teachers are considered initial contract teachers, a teacher can be dismissed for any reason (or no reason), and the teacher has no recourse. Within that time frame, an administrator has ample time to determine if a teacher is good or bad. If a poor teacher is continually offered a contract year after year, is that the fault of the union?

Yes, unions defend bad teachers (and good teachers). I belong to Wyoming Education Association (WEA) for a number of reasons. The most important reason is this: I am at risk of being sued from a multitude of sources. From spiteful parents unhappy with the grades their children have earned to having a student injured while on a field trip, I am a target. The WEA will defend me in situations such as these. However, if a teacher is brought up on charges for which he is obviously guilty - such as inappropriate contact with students - WEA will not touch that situation, and rightly so. What unions will do for bad teachers is defend them in a hearing so that they are assured of due process in the termination process. Bad tenured teachers can be fired, but doing so requires a ton of documentation, a process for which most administrators are unwilling to start and complete. Is that the fault of unions?

Please don’t assume that I dislike administrators. I do not respect poor administrators, just as I do not respect poor teachers. After 22 years in education, I’ve experienced more than my share of both. Bad administrators are a nightmare for students, teachers, and parents…and even other administrators. Good administrators are to be treasured. They really make a difference in the effectiveness of teachers and in the learning of students. Good administrators earn their pay. They work countless hours and catch grief from all sides…parents, students, teachers, and politicians. They have to have a tremendously thick skin. But they persevere because children depend on them.

It seems fashionable to vilify public schools these days, which is too bad. Finger-pointing among educators, politicians, parents, teacher unions, students, and the general public seems to be the way of the public education world. None of it will improve the educational health of our nation.
"Endeavor to persevere..." Chief Dan George from The Outlaw Josie Wales

Offline blind ear

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Re: 5 Myths About American Schools
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2011, 04:49:56 PM »
The schools will always be "good" because "this country will never change and will always have the old time, solid, build it to last forever" attitude! ear
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everyone hears but very few see. (I can't see either, I'm not on the corporate board making rules that sound exactly the opposite of what they mean, plus loopholes) ear
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Offline XD40SC

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Re: 5 Myths About American Schools
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2011, 04:52:53 PM »
You'll soon find out there are those hear that won't listen to you. They would rather shame and blame. Now ; Let the shaming and blaming begin.

Offline Hooker

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Re: 5 Myths About American Schools
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2011, 05:33:48 PM »
I raised two kids and have a few family members that are teachers. I know something about the education system.
Poor teachers make up a very small percentage of why our public schools are failing and unions though despicable do not cause educational systems to fail.
The facts about public schools
The two biggest problems are parents who neglect to raise their children and government mandated programs.
Parents you are the first teacher your child will have, do your job.
Don't let the child raise its self for 5 years and then expect a stranger to make a first class scholar out of the little heathen.
It's your job to see that the child has manners and and is well behaved.
It's your job to see that the child gets a good education.

Government STAY AWAY FROM OUR CHILDREN

You see if we do away with all of those distractions the teachers can get down to the business of teaching.
My sis teaches and one thing that gets her Irish up more than anything is something that takes valuable teaching time away from her students.

Pat
 
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Offline XD40SC

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Re: 5 Myths About American Schools
« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2011, 10:19:31 PM »
I raised two kids and have a few family members that are teachers. I know something about the education system.
Poor teachers make up a very small percentage of why our public schools are failing and unions though despicable do not cause educational systems to fail.
The facts about public schools
The two biggest problems are parents who neglect to raise their children and government mandated programs.
Parents you are the first teacher your child will have, do your job.
Don't let the child raise its self for 5 years and then expect a stranger to make a first class scholar out of the little heathen.
It's your job to see that the child has manners and and is well behaved.
It's your job to see that the child gets a good education.

Government STAY AWAY FROM OUR CHILDREN

You see if we do away with all of those distractions the teachers can get down to the business of teaching.
My sis teaches and one thing that gets her Irish up more than anything is something that takes valuable teaching time away from her students.

Pat
AMEN

Offline Shu

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Re: 5 Myths About American Schools
« Reply #16 on: June 02, 2011, 02:59:30 AM »
Parental involvement is very important. Spend an hour a day with the kid and watch what happens to their grades. Ignore the kid and you have one more failure you can "blame the system for".

I don't understand unions or the need for them. I guess some people think they need them.
To each his own.

Offline slim rem 7

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Re: 5 Myths About American Schools
« Reply #17 on: June 02, 2011, 03:08:43 AM »
 what hooker said.good responcible parents an family are the foundation of any free society.jmo

Offline Old Fart

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Re: 5 Myths About American Schools
« Reply #18 on: June 02, 2011, 03:31:11 AM »
The two biggest problems are parents who neglect to raise their children and government mandated programs.

After 17 years in education I agree with this statement.
For what it's worth I'm not in the general education system, I'm in a field of career ed. But I see this all the time.

Parents you are the first teacher your child will have, do your job.
Don't let the child raise its self for 5 years and then expect a stranger to make a first class scholar out of the little heathen.
It's your job to see that the child has manners and and is well behaved.
It's your job to see that the child gets a good education.

Really makes a lot of sense. I kind of see it as the next wave. Previous generation were the offspring of the hippie generation and the first big bunch of the two income families. This bunch is the start of thier kids.

Government STAY AWAY FROM OUR CHILDREN

I remember parents screeming this, but I forget how long ago it was.
You just don't see many involved in thier kids lives anymore.

I still love my job. I just hope it doen't keep going down this slippery slope.
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Offline Stillkickin

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Re: 5 Myths About American Schools
« Reply #19 on: June 02, 2011, 03:45:57 AM »
Regarding point #1:  One BIG reason that SAT and ACT scores have been higher the past few years is that the tests have been dumbed down in an effort to make them appear less prejudicial to minorities, not that they ever were to begin with. 

You couldn't pay me enough money to be held responsible for trying to make productive citizens, let alone educated ones, out of the hordes of fatherless, day-care started, undisciplined, unsocialized, entitlement indoctrinated, unmotivated, values-starved, leaches of society being popped out of tramps' wombs like widgets off an assembly line in 21st century America.

Offline Swampman

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Re: 5 Myths About American Schools
« Reply #20 on: June 02, 2011, 04:50:43 AM »
The taxpayers need to get out of the school business.  If people want their kids educated let them pay for it or do it themselves.  Just another "big government" waste of money.
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Offline BBF

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Re: 5 Myths About American Schools
« Reply #21 on: June 02, 2011, 06:45:39 AM »
Regarding point #1:  One BIG reason that SAT and ACT scores have been higher the past few years is that the tests have been dumbed down in an effort to make them appear less prejudicial to minorities, not that they ever were to begin with. 

You couldn't pay me enough money to be held responsible for trying to make productive citizens, let alone educated ones, out of the hordes of fatherless, day-care started, undisciplined, unsocialized, entitlement indoctrinated, unmotivated, values-starved, leaches of society being popped out of tramps' wombs like widgets off an assembly line in 21st century America.

WOW !!
I seldom agree with similar posts 100 %.
I do with this one, every single point made.
 
Although a very different form of Govt, look and watch a series of films entitled "Chinese Schools" The Chinese  Govt is totally involved in Education as anything else of course.  What the students are expected to accomplish and achieve is outstanding.
Equally would be Japan. Korea etc. without a Communist Govt.
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Offline Casull

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Re: 5 Myths About American Schools
« Reply #22 on: June 02, 2011, 09:11:26 AM »
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The two biggest problems are parents who neglect to raise their children and government mandated programs.

Huh!  School IS a government mandated program.

Quote
Government STAY AWAY FROM OUR CHILDREN

See above.

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According to the Department of Education, the percentage of 16- to 24-year-olds who were not enrolled in school and hadn't earned a diploma or its equivalent fell to 8 percent in 2008.

Nice diversion.  I'm thinking that if GED's were taken out of the equation the results might be different.
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Offline 243dave

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Re: 5 Myths About American Schools
« Reply #23 on: June 02, 2011, 10:03:54 AM »
The taxpayers need to get out of the school business.  If people want their kids educated let them pay for it or do it themselves.  Just another "big government" waste of money.
Swampman,  Where did you and your family get your education???  Giving kids a education IS NOT a waste of money, but spouting out such non-sense is a waste of time.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: 5 Myths About American Schools
« Reply #24 on: June 02, 2011, 10:32:49 AM »


(1) Our schools are failing.

They are , I hire the students for summer work and to learn a trade after school. Many have to have help filling out the application. Many can't add subtract etc. . Some can't measure .



(2) Unions defend bad teachers.

Why wouldn't they ? even bad teachers pay union dues !

(3) Billionaires know best.

Business owners know what they need in employees skills. Billionaires are the best in business nuff said !

(4) Charter schools are the answer.

I went to 5 public schools in two localities and one private school . It was my experince the pivate school was light years ahead of public schools.
(5) More effective teachers are the answer.

Yes I believe this only if they are allowed to teach in a school that is under control.

Modified to remove strikethrough.  duk

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Offline Hooker

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Re: 5 Myths About American Schools
« Reply #25 on: June 02, 2011, 03:39:22 PM »
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The two biggest problems are parents who neglect to raise their children and government mandated programs.

Huh!  School IS a government mandated program.



One of governments 3 Constitutionally charged burdens is to Promote the General Welfare.
The promotion of the education of our children falls with in that measure. 
Where government crosses the line is by mandating this education and dictating the curriculum.
These are our children and we should be the ones to decide what we fill their little minds with not the government.
There is no end to silly government mandated programs like "no child left behind" that do nothing to improve the child's education.
The taxes I pay for education I do not mind at all, but I don't want it wasted on government BS.
These kids are the future I want them be intelligent enough to make good decisions so they don't have to relive our mistakes.
But government interference is dumbing down the education system and producing morons like the ones who voted for that dispicable embarrassment in the white house.

Pat 
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Offline XD40SC

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Re: 5 Myths About American Schools
« Reply #26 on: June 02, 2011, 04:16:42 PM »
As a retired teacher I still wonder about the following. When I went to school, we didn't have all the government mandated curriculum's and all the different methods of teaching. Yet we all learned enough to be successful. I had some terrific teachers, some terrible teachers and mostly mediocre teachers. The difference was we wanted to learn for a multitude of reasons. I think those reasons are no longer a part to many of today's student population and that's what  is basically wrong with education in America today.

Offline DDZ

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Re: 5 Myths About American Schools
« Reply #27 on: June 02, 2011, 05:42:07 PM »
After we are done blaming parents and students for the failures of our education system. Did we ever stop and think that maybe its our government that is creating the failure on purpose. What better way to ensure government power over its citizens than to make the next generation stupid. Look at how many people today are illiterate in basic English, can't do simple math, or identify a place on a map. Most of all many do not have the ability to know what is going on in the world, or develop an informed opinion on voting.
With an illiterate, uneducated American citizenry, unable to know what is going on, its no wonder we are headed in the direction we are headed.
For our Republic to remain as such, it kind of requires an electorate that knows what is going on beyond what the media tells us is happening. If we receive a effective education we would know how to inform ourselves and see through the propaganda, and recognize the unconstitutional acts of our political rulers.
We now produce students that no longer are capable of understanding key concepts and factors, such as freedom, government of the people, and critical thinking. Students are not being educated anymore they are being trained into what our government wants, and that is people that can't think for themselves.
We can forget about fixing public schools, they are beyond fixing at this point. Our only hope is the creation of private schools.
Those people who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants.    Wm. Penn

Offline sidewinder319

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Re: 5 Myths About American Schools
« Reply #28 on: June 02, 2011, 07:30:29 PM »
Teachers Unions have  put American education behind the rest of the world. We spend more and produce less than any other educated country.  So far as parents getting involved in schools just try it. The Unions go crazy and attack anyone who dares to question these elitist educators. Don't believe it, look at the millions of dollars in damage done to the Wisconsin state house by Union teachers. The American student  compares to other students thru the fourth grade. The American student continues to decline every year after the fourth grade when compared to other countries.  The amount spent on American student failure out paces any country in the world. This decline in progress and wasted expendure can be traced to the rise in teachers unions.

Offline Casull

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Re: 5 Myths About American Schools
« Reply #29 on: June 02, 2011, 07:39:56 PM »
Quote
One of governments 3 Constitutionally charged burdens is to Promote the General Welfare.
The promotion of the education of our children falls with in that measure. 
Where government crosses the line is by mandating this education and dictating the curriculum.
These are our children and we should be the ones to decide what we fill their little minds with not the government.
There is no end to silly government mandated programs like "no child left behind" that do nothing to improve the child's education.
The taxes I pay for education I do not mind at all, but I don't want it wasted on government BS.
These kids are the future I want them be intelligent enough to make good decisions so they don't have to relive our mistakes.
But government interference is dumbing down the education system and producing morons like the ones who voted for that dispicable embarrassment in the white house.

Hooker, I've got to ask:  What are you talking about?  You say that the government must provide the education, but should have no say in what that education is.  Are you serious?  How can an entity provide something without determining what the "something" is?  You do realize that teachers are government employees, don't you?  If you are a teacher, and can't understand why your last post is nothing but contradictory statements, I think you might be closer to the problem than you think. 
Aim small, miss small!!!