5 Myths About American Schools

[XD40SC]

I have a friend who is from Europe. I asked him the major difference between education in America and Europe. He felt the lack of parent involvement in many areas was the biggest problem in America. Lets look at Asia. Family is extremely important in Asian cultures. I feel that proves his belief is a valid one.

[wreckhog]

I have a friend from Russia. She feels that the major difference is science. She considers American elementary school science a joke and a waste of time. That the kids are capable of learning so much more.

[243dave]

If you want to find out what is the major problem is with our education system ask someone who knows and quit getting your information from the net and TV.  That's right, talk to some teachers!!  Most will tell you it is the lack of parenting skills/parent involvement.  They will go on and state that some of the government programs and budget cuts further handicap them making their jobs much harder.  My wife has been a teacher for 15 years and for the little money she gets paid for having a masters degree is amazing, I've tried to talk her into doing something else for a long time that pays better but she loves her kids.  She teaches 8th grade science and you would be surprised but every year she gets at least one kid that can't read on a first grade level.  How does this happen??  The parents/parent gets them labeled early on as having a learning disability and from then on test must be dumbed down/modified to where it is at such a low standard they are far below where they should be.  Most of these kids are of average intelligence and have no learning disability but their parents/parent know how to play the system so their child is not held back a year.  Then the kid realizes they don't have to do anything and they get lazy and just don't care.  My wife has no control who is held back a year in these cases, its up to the administrator, and with the squeeze put on the administrators by the government they will pass them because if they have too many failures or if there are too many kids failing the end of grade tests it is possible to loss your job.  There are many problems with our schools but if your kid graduates and reads on a 3rd grade level its your fault, the parent, for not being there and allowing it to happen.  The teachers have to abide by a lot of BS rules and even buy your children pencils and paper because some of you, the parents, won't.  Overall parents are not what they use to be, of course their are still many good ones, its my goal to be one of the good ones, I wish that was every parents goal.
Dave       

[BBF]

Keep in mind that at one time not all that far back, families consisted of married heterosexual parents. Fathers were the only ones working as breadwinners and Mothers ran the house and kids with Dad being her backup in case of persistant attitude deficiencies.

[243dave]

True, very true Scatterbrain, but there are always exceptions.  Some of the most involved parents are two working parents or a single parent, its the lazy parents who seems to not care about their children that I don't understand.  I know I want my kids to do better and have less struggles than I did and I know the only way they can accomplish that is through education.  I just don't understand why parents don't encourage education starting at a early age.  In these times doing well in K-12 and continuing on is only beneficial, now days you have to have a degree for most good jobs and good jobs are almost next to impossible to find anymore.  Things have changed a lot in the past 60 years and in my opinion for the worse and the direction its headed the next 60 years don't look very good for America and its children.
Dave 

[BBF]

Dave
Turn back the calendar to the time the parents of the present school going generation were going to school themselves and see what sort of "progressive" education crap was given them.
 
 Dumbing down was well underway and so was "situation ethics".

I had my own offspring in school during those years and was aghast at the nonsense that was taught in Social Ed if I got that name right. More emphasis on "Getting Along" rather then Reading, Writing and Arithmetic.

Remember Dr. Spock idealogy?   The "Look See" reading program i.e Dick and Jane etc.

[XD40SC]

One of the problems is teachers have to make the students feel good so we don't hurt their self esteem. Even if it"s praising a junior for being able to tie his shoes in double knots because it will boast his self esteem. We all know that's how the real world will treat them. [ sarcasm for those who didn't get it.]

[XD40SC]

If you want to find out what is the major problem is with our education system ask someone who knows and quit getting your information from the net and TV.  That's right, talk to some teachers!!  Most will tell you it is the lack of parenting skills/parent involvement.  They will go on and state that some of the government programs and budget cuts further handicap them making their jobs much harder.  My wife has been a teacher for 15 years and for the little money she gets paid for having a masters degree is amazing, I've tried to talk her into doing something else for a long time that pays better but she loves her kids.  She teaches 8th grade science and you would be surprised but every year she gets at least one kid that can't read on a first grade level.  How does this happen??  The parents/parent gets them labeled early on as having a learning disability and from then on test must be dumbed down/modified to where it is at such a low standard they are far below where they should be.  Most of these kids are of average intelligence and have no learning disability but their parents/parent know how to play the system so their child is not held back a year.  Then the kid realizes they don't have to do anything and they get lazy and just don't care.  My wife has no control who is held back a year in these cases, its up to the administrator, and with the squeeze put on the administrators by the government they will pass them because if they have too many failures or if there are too many kids failing the end of grade tests it is possible to loss your job.  There are many problems with our schools but if your kid graduates and reads on a 3rd grade level its your fault, the parent, for not being there and allowing it to happen.  The teachers have to abide by a lot of BS rules and even buy your children pencils and paper because some of you, the parents, won't.  Overall parents are not what they use to be, of course their are still many good ones, its my goal to be one of the good ones, I wish that was every parents goal.
Dave       

Why ask someone with first hand experience what's going on? They will only give a biased opinion. Surely those who never were teachers know more than those who did. And since certain TV news programs or news paper articles and the people who work for them are as sacred as scripture; surely they wouldn't have an alterier motive.
I know what's it like to operate on a heart patient more than my heart doc Yep; I watch E. R. and a friend of mine when through it and explained it all to me.  I can present my agruement in court and understand the law better than a lawyer because I watch Judge Judy and I have been a jurior several times. See we don't need people with first hand experience because we know better than they.

[Casull]

Why ask someone with first hand experience what's going on? They will only give a biased opinion. Surely those who never taught know more than those who did. And since certain TV news programs or news paper articles and the people who work for them are as sacred as scripture; surely they wouldn't have an alterier motive.
I know what's it like to operate on a heart patient more than my heart doc, I watch E. R. and a friend of mine when through it and explained it all to me.  I can present my agruement in court and understand the law better than a lawyer because I watch Judge Jury and I was a jurior several times. See we don't need people with first hand experience because we know better than they.

Hmmmm, does that reply also apply when we are discussing politicians, cops, etc.?  I would hazard a guess that most here have, or have had, children in school.  You think, just maybe, that first hand experience with the problem might be as useful as the statements of those that are part of the system?  Just something to think about.

[XD40SC]

Why ask someone with first hand experience what's going on? They will only give a biased opinion. Surely those who never taught know more than those who did. And since certain TV news programs or news paper articles and the people who work for them are as sacred as scripture; surely they wouldn't have an alterier motive.
I know what's it like to operate on a heart patient more than my heart doc, I watch E. R. and a friend of mine when through it and explained it all to me.  I can present my agruement in court and understand the law better than a lawyer because I watch Judge Jury and I was a jurior several times. See we don't need people with first hand experience because we know better than they.

Hmmmm, does that reply also apply when we are discussing politicians, cops, etc.?  I would hazard a guess that most here have, or have had, children in school.  You think, just maybe, that first hand experience with the problem might be as useful as the statements of those that are part of the system?  Just something to think about.

Sure. First hand experience is valuable.  We have all had first hand experience with those mentioned above. Some good and some not so good. But to paint individuals or organizations in the system[ which ever one it is] as always being biased with their replies is not accurate. If it is than we can not trust any of them to reflect upon their professions because they will always give a biased answer in their favor.

[DDZ]

Oh I see, we have to ask a teacher if we want to know what is wrong with our public education system. Asking teachers what happened to to our education system, would be comparable to asking the fox what happened to the chickens in the hen house.
 Why would they ever think to blame anything else besides the parents and kids? They just happen to be the easiest scapegoat. 
I know if I was a teacher I wouldn't want to be a known part of a failed system either.

One thing I have noticed is that it is always teachers, ex-teachers or people that have relatives that are teachers, that are venomously supporting our failed public school system. Don't look past the parents and kids, it has to be their fault.   A couple of you have hinted that there are other problems, but none have agreed that the whole stinking government run system has been a failure, and that the product of that is our country is failing right along with it. 

Someone mentioned budget cuts as a problem. I don't think that has really started in most states until this year, mainly because school districts are bankrupt from ever demanding teacher salaries and benefits.  In my area the cuts have not happened. The teachers would not even agree to a wage freeze. So the teachers complained, the teachers union battled the school districts, and taxes went up again. I wonder at what point the teachers will decide they are paid enough money and have enough benefits for 180 days of work per year.
 
Anyway we spend more per student then any other country, except maybe one. So if money is what its about, we would be surrounded by highly educated students. "Not enough money" is not even close to an argument.

[gomerdog]

See the last paragraph of my post on the first page of this thread.

[S.S.]

Something about Charter schools,
Just as soon as they start receiving government money,
they are no longer private. Thus they then must allow
the same type student in that are dragging down the public
school system. Self defeating for them to push for money.

[Old Fart]

Someone mentioned budget cuts as a problem. I don't think that has really started in most states until this year, mainly because school districts are bankrupt from ever demanding teacher salaries and benefits. 

Want to see some high salaries? Check out school administrators. They used to only make teacher's plus a couple months added as extra duty for working summers. Now day they make 3 or 4 times as much.

[billy_56081]

Here is another myth, teachers care about our children, BS the socialists just want to brain wash children to promote their communist agenda.

[gypsyman]

Well, I'm not here to bash union's, or give Gates or Zucherburg all the credit. They might give millions, and this is all well and good, it doesn't help all the students. I'll turn it into a political atta-boy. Look at the years that the survey was taken. Seems to me that G.Bush ought to be given some credit for his no child left behind policy. 'course all the Bush bashers will not give him any credit for any of it. gypsyman

[ironglow]

   The only point I can fully agree with was the one which was almost an afterthought; that the problem opften starts long before the child steps through the school door.
  The really hilarious suggestion is the one Duk pointed out immediately; which tries to suggest that unions don't defend incompetent or uncaring teachers.. 
   Look; I may have been born on a Friday..but it wasn't LAST Friday !!! 
      ....And don't pee on my shoe & try to tell me it's raining either !

   One answer to improve schools..just as in any other business..COMPETITION improves any product !
   
  Provide education vouchers and let parents CHOOSE for their children.  Problem solved..

[ironglow]

XD40 says;
  "Why ask someone with first hand experience what's going on? They will only give a biased opinion. Surely those who never were teachers know more than those who did. And since certain TV news programs or news paper articles and the people who work for them are as sacred as scripture; surely they wouldn't have an alterier motive."
*********************************************************************************

   Asking only teachers about why our schools are failing is like asking Obama what happened to the $1,000,000,000,000 he blew on a "stimulus" program to produce jobs in America.  He will spin it so as to convince the gullible that the trillion dollar flush down the drain DID produce some jobs.
   Are you trying to imply in that last sentence, that the teachers and their unions DON'T have an ULTERIOR motive ?

   Vouchers & competition..are the only sensible answer !

   

[nomosendero]

(2) Unions defend bad teachers.

Unions have proved amenable to removing the bad apples in their ranks — with due process. Montgomery County, Md., for instance, implemented its Peer Assistance and Review program with union cooperation a decade ago. It requires every new teacher and those flagged as "underperforming" by a principal to be observed by a specialist over a school year. All teachers get support, advice and a chance to do better; then they are re-evaluated. Those who fall short lose their jobs. Between 2006 and 2010, 245 teachers resigned or were dismissed. Many districts have similar programs, but, as a Harvard study pointed out, they are expensive.

Reformers who attack unions for school problems should mind their logic: Some school systems show better results than others, yet most have teachers' unions. If unions are universally problematic, why are some students succeeding while others languish?

Oh, well I'm sold then.  How silly of me.  You see since some schools do better than others, and all have unions, the unions must not be the problem right?  Are you kidding me?  If this guy is stupid enough to think this passes as a winning argument he must have graduated from one of those failing schools.  I'd like to ask him this:

Right before the local highschools run their 100 meter dash at the next track meet I'm going to make all runners put on a 20lb backpack.  Here's what's going to happen.  Someone's going to run fastest, and win the race.  Since he ran faster than the others can we conclude that the extra weight did not slow him down?  Are you seriously considering that question?  That some schools do better than others with unions is obvious.  Some schools start with better kids.  Some have better parents.  Some have better administrators, facilities, resources, etc... 

I'm genuinely at a loss for how unbearably stupid this author must thing his readers are... or, if it wasn't an effort to deceive us, how stupid he must be.

Excellant post!!

[XD40SC]

XD40 says;
  "Why ask someone with first hand experience what's going on? They will only give a biased opinion. Surely those who never were teachers know more than those who did. And since certain TV news programs or news paper articles and the people who work for them are as sacred as scripture; surely they wouldn't have an alterier motive."
*********************************************************************************

   Asking only teachers about why our schools are failing is like asking Obama what happened to the $1,000,000,000,000 he blew on a "stimulus" program to produce jobs in America.  He will spin it so as to convince the gullible that the trillion dollar flush down the drain DID produce some jobs.
   Are you trying to imply in that last sentence, that the teachers and their unions DON'T have an ULTERIOR motive ?

   Vouchers & competition..are the only sensible answer !

   
[/qu:)
I understand perfectly what you are saying. Just like it's impossible for a conservative to believe anything that isn't on Fox News.

[gomerdog]

Here is another myth, teachers care about our children, BS the socialists just want to brain wash children to promote their communist agenda.

Socialist agenda? Really? When was the last time you were in a public school? After 22 years of teaching in three different public schools, I have yet to meet a communist or hear of any communist agenda.

There has obviously been some brainwashing going on here, but I've yet to see a public school kid subject to it. 

[billy_56081]

Here is another myth, teachers care about our children, BS the socialists just want to brain wash children to promote their communist agenda.

Socialist agenda? Really? When was the last time you were in a public school? After 22 years of teaching in three different public schools, I have yet to meet a communist or hear of any communist agenda.

There has obviously been some brainwashing going on here, but I've yet to see a public school kid subject to it. 

I would guess that the promoters of the socialist/communist agenda would would comprehend that they are purveyors of that evil agenda.

[XD40SC]

Here is another myth, teachers care about our children, BS the socialists just want to brain wash children to promote their communist agenda.

Socialist agenda? Really? When was the last time you were in a public school? After 22 years of teaching in three different public schools, I have yet to meet a communist or hear of any communist agenda.

There has obviously been some brainwashing going on here, but I've yet to see a public school kid subject to it. 

+1

[DDZ]

There has obviously been some brainwashing going on here, but I've yet to see a public school kid subject to it.

This statement is a good example of how good of a job our government has done at destroying what is now called education, and implementing ways to change the students views toward a socialistic government instead of the Republic we have, or should I say had.   

[billy_56081]

Here is another myth, teachers care about our children, BS the socialists just want to brain wash children to promote their communist agenda.

Socialist agenda? Really? When was the last time you were in a public school? After 22 years of teaching in three different public schools, I have yet to meet a communist or hear of any communist agenda.

There has obviously been some brainwashing going on here, but I've yet to see a public school kid subject to it. 

+1

Please refer to the directly above.

[XD40SC]

Here is another myth, teachers care about our children, BS the socialists just want to brain wash children to promote their communist agenda.

Really. - inconceivable.

[XD40SC]

Here is another myth, teachers care about our children, BS the socialists just want to brain wash children to promote their communist agenda.

The above statement will most likely be moved to the humor section.

[Old Fart]

I know that with this group, no matter how long this thread goes on some will never change thier minds.
On all sides of the discussion.

But I would suggest that anyone who really wants to know gets involved.
Volunteer to help out. I'm sure in most cases you'd be welcomed to jump in.
You might be surprised with what you see.

One thing is for sure.
There's enough guilt to go around with all involved.

[billy_56081]

Here is another myth, teachers care about our children, BS the socialists just want to brain wash children to promote their communist agenda.

Socialist agenda? Really? When was the last time you were in a public school? After 22 years of teaching in three different public schools, I have yet to meet a communist or hear of any communist agenda.

There has obviously been some brainwashing going on here, but I've yet to see a public school kid subject to it. 

I would guess that the promoters of the socialist/communist agenda would would comprehend that they are purveyors of that evil agenda.

Needs to be said again.

[Casull]

Socialist agenda? Really? When was the last time you were in a public school? After 22 years of teaching in three different public schools, I have yet to meet a communist or hear of any communist agenda.

Really?  Maybe you need to do a little reading.

http://emergingcorruption.com/2011/04/socialist-teachers-discuss-indoctrinating-public-schoolchildren/

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/fox-news-hosts-peaceful-interview-with-socialist-revolutionary-high-school-teacher/

http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/news/index.ssf?/base/news-1/126672873013570.xml&coll=3

http://usactionnews.com/2010/08/teachers-union-promotes-alinsky-radicals-guide-to-revolution/

http://thepartyofknow.com/2011/04/21/union-teachers-explain-how-to-push-marxism-in-the-classroom/

http://www.conservativenc.com/index.php/conservativenc-voices/tags/Indoctrination/

http://thetruthwins.com/archives/singing-school-children-publicly-exploited-on-cnn-to-promote-barack-obamas-socialist-health-care-plan