Author Topic: WORLD CANNON VIEWING TOUR 2011 (Read 1528 times)

shooter2 · « **on:** June 01, 2011, 01:53:41 PM »

Gentlemen,
I have just finalied the bookings for my World Cannon Viewing Tour or as my lovely partner Sue knows it, our Northern Hemisphere Holiday. I hope to visit and film as many famous cannons, museums and sites as I can manage within the auspices of the schedule we are following. I have carte blanche for North America but Europe is hers (with certain detours allowed).
Proposed Schedule - Aug 21 - Arrive Toronto and drive to Bufflao
Aug 22 - Fort Niagra
Aug 23 - Watervliet Arsenal
Aug 24 - West Point (Anyone know of a way to get to Trophy Point other than the guided tour?)
Aug 26 - Battery Point/Governors Island New York
Aug 27/28 - Gettysburg
Aug 29/30 - Richmond, Tredegar Iron Works, Fredericksburg, Spotsylvania etc.
Aug 31 to Sept 2 - Wahington DC Smithsonian, Navy Yard (anyone know people in there?)
Sept 6 - Key West Fort Zachary Taylor (part of a Cruise)
Sept 10 - London, National Maritime Museum,
Sept 12 - Portsmouth, HMS Victory, HMS Warrior
Sept 13 - Fort Nelson
Sept 14 - Firepower Museum
Sept 17 - Paris, Les Invalides
Then Italy via Venice, Florence, Rome and fly home to OZ via Hong Kong.

This trip should be legend...........(wait for it)...............ary!

What I want to know is what else is along the way we are going. We have a hire car in North America and England and can basically go to places near to the high points mentioned. Obviously I am not going to forgo a major museum/battlefield for a single cannon in a town square but there must be some stuff that I am missing. Let me know, or better yet, can we meet during the trip?

Shooter 2

dan610324 · « **Reply #1 on:** June 01, 2011, 02:04:37 PM »

there is a small country up north that's called Sweden

one day here and I will show you the Vasa museum and the army museum
with a little luck we can be able to look through the army museum varehouse also

Rayfan87 · « **Reply #2 on:** June 01, 2011, 02:47:39 PM »

When you travel across NY, there are a few other Forts you might be interested in, Stanwix is in Rome (between Syracuse and Albany not sure how much they have in the way of cannon there it's been far too long) and Ticonderoga is up north near Vermont.

shooter2 · « **Reply #3 on:** June 01, 2011, 03:02:39 PM »

Dan,
My father is Danish, originally from the island of Bornholm. I am well aware of the great artillery available up there in Scandanavia including the Gothenburg guns etc. . BUT I will not be visiting the old country this trip. Sue has graciously allowed me to go wild in North America but wants all the romantic and historic bells and whistles that France and Italy offer. In the interest of a peaceful life I had better listen this time. As we say here in Australia - CBE (Can't Be Everywhere).

However, should another trip come up (who knows, I could win the lottery) I would very much like to take up your kind offer to tour Swedish Artillery sites.

Kindest regards
Shooter2

Double D · « **Reply #4 on:** June 01, 2011, 03:22:13 PM »

That is a pretty optimistic schedule...when do you sleep eat and travel..how are you traveling?

shooter2 · « **Reply #5 on:** June 01, 2011, 03:37:46 PM »

DD,
Like all schedules it is open to change as we go along. We do not have too much accomodation booked ahead. We have Googled the road distances etc and we are experienced long distance drivers, essential in our part of Australia just to get around. For example Buffalo to Watervliet is 5 hours by road, Watervliet to West point is 2 hours, New York to Gettysburg is 3.5 hours. Sue and I have driven further on a Friday night for weekend shotgun shoots so driving distance won't bother us. If we find we are getting behind, some things can be sacrificed for the greater goal. I am also referencing the Civil War Road Trip Guide for assistance in finding things and following roads.

We know we are biting off a hell of a lot, but once you bite off more than you can chew, chew like hell. Besides this may be our one and only chance to see these places. Better to fail trying for glory than strive for mediocre. Our rule when we travel (and we travel together regularly) is to sight see during the day and travel in the evenings. It seems to work out.

I am not so arrogant as to assume I know it all though,, so any input is always welcome, please comment freely.

regards
Shooter2

bluelake · « **Reply #6 on:** June 01, 2011, 03:46:23 PM »

There are some great pieces throughout Europe, especially in Germany, it seems, from what I've read on the "Ethnographic Arms and Armour" European Armoury discussion group over on Vikingsword.com A few of the members there have fantastic collections of their own, but also have posted many pics from some of the museums and other places.

Double D · « **Reply #7 on:** June 01, 2011, 03:51:09 PM »

From Gettysburg you would want to go to Washington Dc then south to Fredricksberg-Richmond...

Some of the locations will take you a whole day and longer.

Hope you are young...I covered someof this ground in April and I ain't young and it wore me out..

shooter2 · « **Reply #8 on:** June 01, 2011, 04:38:56 PM »

DD,
I agree I would be better going to DC before the Virginian Sites but we have a plane flight out of DC on Sept 3 to get to Miami for a Cruise, so DC is last and so we have to drive 3.5 hours from Gettysburg to Richmond and then travel north towards DC. My fitness is good , I am 52 this year. I have led an active life in Law Enforcement including a stint in Special Weapons, I moonlight as a Movie Ordnance Armourer (Credits for The Great Raid, Australia and Wolverine). Sue has threatened to 'wait under a tree whilst you do your foolishness' so she may not be walking everywhere I go.

The main part of our travel plan is to be ready and organised. I have a measuring sheet proforma prepared to quickly tick off essential measurements of cannons that are not referenced in the books I have (I have most of the classics - Big Guns, Field Guns of the Civil War, Ripley's Book, Tucker's Naval Ordnance book and others) I must thank Mike and Tracy at Seacoast for their informative thread on cannon measuring that allowed me to prepare the sheet I now use. I have a regular system of walk around photos of cannons and carriages practiced over the years of cataloguing Australian Colonial Cannons. My favourite scaling device is a soft drink can. I also prefer to use a laser measuring device instead of a tape measure. I don't need a second person to hold the dumb end of the measure, I can measure internals of barrels and it is quick. Another plus is I can convince curators and staff that since I do not actually touch the cannon, I cause no harm. I use a steel rule for parts under 12 inches.

As to Colonial Artillery, I am building a nice photo catalogue of various pieces. The great thing about being at the end of the line for Ordnance is the stuff the UK retired got a second life out here in OZ but were never used in anger. These pieces then progressed naturally into museums, forts and historic placemarks. There are more intact examples of Armstrong Guns, etc than even in England. Iron Mounts survive, but Australia is harsh on anything wooden, so there are practically no original wooden carriages around, just recreations and interpretations.

Shooter2

seacoastartillery · « **Reply #9 on:** June 01, 2011, 07:28:36 PM »

Wow, that's quite a trip, Shooter2. Too bad you couldn't shoehorn an extra day in your schedule to do Fort Ticonderoga at the southern end of Lake Champlain on the New York/Vermont border. Rayfan87 is right, that place is a cannon hunter's nirvana! A Big 12" French Siege Mortar, two 15" Spanish Mortars, four or five nationalities of field guns, rows of excellent repros of the old English and early American fortress guns line the parapets poking through embrasures. There is an absolutely stunning bronze statue, size huge, in the nearby town of Ticonderoga which brings the history of French and British conquest in North America to life in artwork, the likes of which doesn't exist anywhere else.

Glad we could help a bit with your cannon measuring. I guess we picked up a few ideas on how to do that over 35 years. Write the Arms and Armor Curator of the West Point Museum. Tell him your schedule and ask for a personal guide. This worked for us in 2004 and could for you as well. If Les Jensen, the curator in 2006 is still there, you can mention us as the guys who studied the 150 Pdr. Armstrong Rifle, 8" bore, with him in 2004, getting rained out, and finished the study and drawing of it at Fort Fisher in Dec. of 2006. We sent him five copies of the two sheet 'A' size drawing as a courtesy. You won't see much on the tour which is a pity; they have so much there including large chunks of that monstrous 12.75" Blakely Gun the Confederates blew up Charleston in 1865. Good luck!

Mike and Tracy

GGaskill · « **Reply #10 on:** June 01, 2011, 08:16:51 PM »

The Washington Navy Yard collection was very interesting last time I was in town but I understand that access to the Yard has been restricted since the 9/11 attacks. I suggest that you write in advance to the Yard commander (there may be a Yard web page that describes this, too) and ask to be allowed on base to view the various historical collections. My understanding is that this is primarily to get your name on a list at the entrance guard shack so you aren't showing up unannounced.

Good luck.

shooter2 · « **Reply #11 on:** June 02, 2011, 02:53:30 PM »

Fort Ticonderoga was on an early version of our tour plan but fell off as we eliminated those we had to drive back over the same roads for. From Watervliet it is 4 hours there and back before we can head south for West Point. Though now that I hear how many unique pieces of ordnance there is on display there I am starting to have regrets. Still CBE (Can't Be Everywhere) and has been pointed out we are pretty ambitious as it is with our itinerary.

I have previously emailed both the West Point and Navy Yard Museums but have not yet received a reply. They are no doubt busy people and may not have time to deal with a request from a foreign national.

I was hoping someone knew someone. You know "I know this guy who knows a guy".

Without introductions it is hard to get into some places. I had a hard time in the early days of my studies in Australia, but as I get more well known, doors get opened, hidden or forgotten exhibits get brought out etc. The strange thing is the best and most unique cannon in Australia are not in our Military museums but in our parks. Australian troops (Diggers) have a history going back to before the Boer War of being creative when 'obtaining' war relics. They troops then donated them to the local war memorial committee who mounted them in parks. After WW1 there was huge upswing in memorials. We have a lot of early German and Allied artillery in our public parks that are available nowhere else in the world. A great example is the only German Tank left from WW1 is at Brisbane's South Bank next to the museum. It was stolen fair and square from the British at the end of the war and freighted to Brisbane before the Imperial War Museum even knew it was available.

I should mention that if anyone has an interest in British Colonial Artillery I have developed a pretty good photo catalogue of these types from parks and museums around Australia and New Zealand. Armstrong Guns of various vintages are heavily featured.

Shooter2

GGaskill · « **Reply #12 on:** June 02, 2011, 05:48:54 PM »

They are no doubt busy people and may not have time to deal with a request from a foreign national.

I would hope they could find time for a citizen of a long time ally.

Double D · « **Reply #13 on:** June 02, 2011, 06:38:24 PM »

Here is the Navy Yard Musem website with infomration about visiting. http://www.history.navy.mil/branches/org8_Visit.htm

Rotunda · « **Reply #14 on:** June 03, 2011, 11:19:48 AM »

Whilst you’re in Greenwich visiting the National Maritime Museum, don’t forget the Old Royal Naval College on the other side of the road. It’s a beautiful collection of buildings; I worked there for six years when the Royal Navy owned it.

If the weather is good, take a walk up through Greenwich Park, to the Royal Observatory and do the tourist thing of standing on the Prime Meridian.

If you’re hiring a car and want to go a bit further out from London, about 35 miles away is the Historic Dockyard at Chatham in Kent, which is worth a visit, H.M.S. Victory was built there.

gunsonwheels · « **Reply #15 on:** June 03, 2011, 04:36:08 PM »

Ex limey sent me these pictures of a "grasshopper" Verbruggen model that is at the Royal Artillery Museum in Woolwich London. I would like very much like to have someone with a digital camera with "macro mode" get a few inches away from the model and take enough pics for someone to replicate all the detail of it in a full scale version. I will pay well for a good set... (well I think "well" anyway).

Zulu · « **Reply #16 on:** June 03, 2011, 05:46:47 PM »

Ten spoke wheels. That's interesting. That is a nice carriage.
Zulu

gunsonwheels · « **Reply #17 on:** June 03, 2011, 06:23:30 PM »

ex limey was telling me the model served the same function as detailed drawings and specifications back in those days... it's like there aren't drawings available but there is this model... so macro pictures of it may be the only answer to accomplishing a historically accurate replication... as he puts it: "it takes just as long to build it right as it does to build it wrong".
And for the RevWar, the macro pics along with knowing the wheels are 42" in diameter is as close to AOP's books are for the CW period as we can get.

dan610324 · « **Reply #18 on:** June 04, 2011, 05:39:40 AM »

have you tried to contact someone at the museum ??

shooter2 · « **Reply #19 on:** June 04, 2011, 09:38:54 PM »

gunsonwheels,
Consider it done. No need for payment. Digital photos will be easy and I have a fairly good Canon Digital SLR for the closeups. If the Grasshopper is still there I will capture it. I can email the results to you or send a burnt copy on disc. After all we cannon enthusiasts need to look after each other.

regards
shooter2

shooter2 · « **Reply #20 on:** June 04, 2011, 09:48:28 PM »

rotunda,
You can be sure we are going to the Royal Observatory and other tourist places. England is just steeped in history. Even though I specialise in ordnance, I have a great appreciation of history in general and I love all aspects of it.

shooter2

shooter2 · « **Reply #21 on:** June 05, 2011, 11:38:51 AM »

Got a reply over the weekend from a Ms Clarissa Dean of the Navy Yard Museum. She has very kindly detailed the procedure I need to adopt to gain entry and has recommended some parts of the collection to me along with an introduction to the staff there. A very good result for me and my touring schedule. Just waiting on the West Point people now.

shooter2

gunsonwheels · « **Reply #22 on:** June 05, 2011, 03:11:20 PM »

Quote

Posted by: dan610324
Yesterday at 09:39:40 AM

have you tried to contact someone at the museum ??

I have e-mailed them regarding removing the case and allowing the photos... I will let you know what thier response is...

GOW

Cannoneer · « **Reply #23 on:** June 06, 2011, 12:30:57 AM »

shooter2,

I understand by what you’ve said that choosing the sightseeing destinations in Venice probably aren’t going to be open to much discussion, but you never know what opportunities might arise, so here’s a request just in case fortune happens to smile on the side of those that have a need to view cannon and mortars: The Museo Storico Navale.

gunsonwheels · « **Reply #24 on:** June 06, 2011, 04:41:52 AM »

I received the following this "early" morning:

Quote

Dear George Neilson,

Thank you for your enquiry regarding the Grasshopper model. We do have the model here and I can get it out of the case for your friend to macro photograph, but we do charge for this sort of research which would cost £10 sterling. I would need to know your acquaintances names and what day they would wish to visit the museum. I look forward to hearing from you.

Mr. Les Smith MA AMA
Collections Manager
Royal Artillery Museum

Please PM me and let me know where to send the $20 (dollars) (gee when I started it would have been $28).

George/GOW

shooter2 · « **Reply #25 on:** June 07, 2011, 12:35:10 PM »

Gunsonwheels - PM sent. No problems with doing this for you at all, who knows, it may lead to some extra access at the museum.

Seacoastartillery - Mike and Tracy, I have recieved a very polite email from the Mr Les Jensen you previously mentioned at West Point. He has indicated he would be delighted to help facilitate and assist me with my private viewing at Trophy Point. He is still the Arms and Armour Curator and seems a very earnest and generous gentleman. I hope the weather holds for my visit.

That is the only factor that can beat me now.

This trip is starting to take on epic proportions, I hope I can keep up the pace and do justice to the task I have set myself.

regards
shooter2

seacoastartillery · « **Reply #26 on:** June 07, 2011, 02:29:49 PM »

That's great news, shooter2! I know that both Mike and I were extremely impressed with Mr. Jensen's knowledge and his genuine friendliness. He was actually willing to stand out there in the late afternoon rain in April of 2004 and let us continue our measurements of the 150 Pdr. Armstrong, but our instruments were getting wet so we had to call it a day. You can see the shoulder of Storm King Mtn. just to the west of the Hudson River. Throughout the four years of the Civil War the Cadets at the U.S.M.A. At West Point, NY could hear the heavy seige and seacoast Parrott rifles boom and thunder as they sent bolts from 30, 100, 200 and 300 Pdrs whirring over the river from the test battery at Robert Parrott's West Point Foundry in Cold Spring, NY, only to crash into large iron plates at a point near the mountain's top. Talk about effective psychological training for the future Army officers, this was nothing short of perfect! They tested these big guns day and night, I've read.

T&M

Mike chats with Mr. Jensen at the United States Military Academy's, Trophy Point where the big 8" Armstrong Rifle is located.

Tracy measures the loading groove dia. at 8.235" The firing groove is closer to 8 Inches.

Rotunda · « **Reply #27 on:** June 10, 2011, 07:51:44 AM »

Hi shooter2

Directions to the Woolwich Mallet Mortar.

If you are going to see the Mallet Mortar by car after visiting the Firepower Royal Artillery Museum in Woolwich, go up Wellington Street, over John Wilson Street, onto Artillery Place and then turn left in Repository Road. Go just past the entrance to the old Royal Artillery Barracks, which will be on your left, and on the opposite side of the road just a little further along is the Mallet Mortar that I think was used in the test firings.

Regards,
Rotunda

shooter2 · « **Reply #28 on:** June 15, 2011, 01:34:38 PM »

Rotunda,
Excellent directions, I was unsure that Mallets Mortar was still there. The Mortar outside Fort Nelson was going to get a lot pics taken but if the one in Woolwich is still there so much the better for details and comparisons that are on one and not the other.

Mike and Tracy,
In the photo above which one is Mike and which is Mr Jensen?

Every day now another piece is falling into place for this epic trip. I am practicing my cannon measuring and photo techniques for the big stuff and will practice close up photography so I can do justice to the Grasshopper model for Gunsonwheels in the Woolwich Firepower Museum. I won't pay to stuff up some of these once in a lifetime opportunities.

I am getting very excited about the upcoming trip. Pity I arrive too late for the Cut Bank shoot.

regards
Shooter2

seacoastartillery · « **Reply #29 on:** June 15, 2011, 05:07:17 PM »

Shooter2, Mike is the one on the left although you would not know that by talking with him. Despite being a life-long Republican, he still has lots of admiration for Pres. Harry Truman. His favorite story of all time is about the advice that the Russian defense minister gave to Stalin just after WWII ended. Apparently the Russians wanted to go grab a chunk of Turkey for oil or resources. Truman's answer to the defense minister , through our dept. of defense, was this: "Remember, we have the Bomb!" When Stalin questioned the seriousness of Mr. Truman's intent, his defense minister told him the truth. "Please be advised Sir, Mr. Truman is a farmer and means exactly what he says."

Anyway, have a great trip and try to get bunches of detail photos on Mallet's mortars. We are especially interested in the elevation apparatus, Hand wheel, giant wedges, etc. Also, where is the vent located? Sometimes this is an easy thing to determine, but that is a function of the layers and thickness of the protective paint used.

Best wishes,

Tracy & Mike